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Can TAM Change Their Minds Re: Aircraft Orders?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2941 posts, RR: 10
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6886 times:
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I know TAM has a handful more 777's coming over the next year or two. I know they have ordered A350's as well ( I do not recall how many). Does TAM have a back door on that order should they determine that they need more VLA's sooner? Assuming the A350 does not encounter any delays, they are still a number of years away before Airbus starts delivering them.
Should TAM (perhaps given Brazils continuing boom with very expensive fares) decide they need VLA's sooner, can they either convert or buy more A330's? Or if they are not big enough or have the legs needed- could they switch to the A380? However I just can't imagine A380's at TAM (I have no factual basis for that feeling, just can't see them in the fleet) or can they cancel those A350's altogether for more 777's? I hear/read they love their 777's as do their pax- 'as do I' or switch to the 787? Or dare I say the new 747-8i??? While another era...RG had many 747's. But it's a BIG airplane that can be in the fleet fairly quickly I'd assume. I could easily see filling them from FRA or LHR. Maybe if they decide to add Asia service? Or are they locked into or committed to the A350?

But, if I look at SQ, it seems amazing how well they deploy their 10,000 777's  


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35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

TAM recently released it's first quarter results where you can find many answers to your questions:

www.tamriweb.com.br

There you can search for the latest press release containing detailed info regarding current market results, fleet planning, future destinations etc.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2941 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6736 times:
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Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 1):

Muito obrigado!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6096 times:
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TAM needs airplanes and I am surprised they have NOT leased some of those JET Airways 77W's available for lease a few years ago.

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2941 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5719 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):

As I am just an enthusiast and I am a member of airliners.net so I can learn and have questions answered that puzzle me. One thing that has puzzled me about TAM was that it appeared from all I've read, along with the fact I have flown them a number of times that TAM could be much more than it currently is. There are some soft products that need work, but it really stuck out that it could use more international widebodies and could serve some major cities they currently don't. Especially Asia! I have been on their 777's and A330's and while both very nice (except for the angled business seats). Their 777-300's are really amazing- much better than the A330 in space and impressive size. New interiors are reportedly on the way, a good private FIRST (by it's small size) and decent seat. Fix a few things like C, color scheme and change the non Brazilian, charter identity.

Why don't they really broaden their reach?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5600 times:

An example of how TAM is performing in the Brazil-USA market. You can see below the results for NOV/2010.

IATA / Leg / Load Factor / Passenger #
code

JJ MCO GRU 97,6% 6528
JJ GRU MIA 96,0% 12205
JJ JFK GIG 95,6% 3333
JJ JFK GRU 95,4% 11957
JJ MIA GRU 94,0% 12901
JJ GRU MCO 93,7% 5990
JJ MIA GIG 93,2% 5734
JJ GIG JFK 92,9% 3238
JJ GRU JFK 88,6% 11107
JJ GIG MIA 83,3% 5125
JJ MAO MIA 80,7% 4964
JJ MIA MAO 77,3% 4754

Total de pax: 87.836

If you interested you can check how the other airlines did in this link:

http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/ind...il/page__gopid__717303#entry717303

[Edited 2011-05-21 20:03:11]

User currently offlineJonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5573 times:

Wow I never knew MIA-GIG had such little passenger numbers compared to GRU  Wow!

User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting Jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
5734

NO surprise here since TAM offers double daily flights between GRU & MIA (A332) and only daily between GIG & MIA (763).


User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 5430 times:

Quoting Jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
Wow I never knew MIA-GIG had such little passenger numbers compared to GRU

They fly GRU-MIA twice daily with A332 and GIG-MIA only 1 daily with the 763


User currently offlineZKNCL From New Zealand, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
But, if I look at SQ, it seems amazing how well they deploy their 10,000 777's

Which they are all getting rid of after 10 years!  

But I just see TAM deploy 777's and A330's onto the routes in the meantime with current deliveries.

ZKNCL


User currently offlineIDISA From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
One thing that has puzzled me about TAM was that it appeared from all I've read, along with the fact I have flown them a number of times that TAM could be much more than it currently is.

I agree. Let's face it: TAM is a relatively young airline and they entered in the international market very late, I think back in 2003 or 2004 when RG went on bankrupt and they need to fill the gap of the international slots.
They were and, in a way, still they are more a regional airline than an international airline. They need to improve and get better on many things, starting from their fleet.
The logical step is gettin more B77W, replacing the two A345 (that maybe could be deployed on an Asian route) and choose between the 787 or the 350.
Somehow, it seems like they are "afraid" of taking a decision and the more they wait for, the more the chance of doing a big step forward gets further away...


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4520 times:
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Quoting IDISA (Reply 10):
Somehow, it seems like they are "afraid" of taking a decision and the more they wait for, the more the chance of doing a big step forward gets further away...

In what way is TAM "afraid"? TAM has already made a "very big decision"...


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2941 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4279 times:
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Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 9):

Perhaps another thread, but why is SQ getting rid of their 777's? And they have so many!

What are they replacing them with? When will they start getting rid of them.? I am sure SQ keeps them in great shape, and the ones with the new seats are pure SQ luxury? I wish TAM would take a lession from them on C seating!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4099 times:
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Back to the original question:

Any airline can cancel an order at some financial consequence.


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Quoting IDISA (Reply 10):
I agree. Let's face it: TAM is a relatively young airline and they entered in the international market very late, I think back in 2003 or 2004 when RG went on bankrupt and they need to fill the gap of the international slots.
They were and, in a way, still they are more a regional airline than an international airline. They need to improve and get better on many things, starting from their fleet.
The logical step is gettin more B77W, replacing the two A345 (that maybe could be deployed on an Asian route) and choose between the 787 or the 350.
Somehow, it seems like they are "afraid" of taking a decision and the more they wait for, the more the chance of doing a big step forward gets further away...

Sorry but your comments only show your lack of knowledge about TAM. The Airline has been flying intl routes since 1999 when it received it first A330s and to be honest, TAM doesn't have to fill the RG's gaps, it has to focus where they can make money.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3713 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
In what way is TAM "afraid"? TAM has already made a "very big decision"...

I sure hope that LAN rewrites TAM's expansion plans, making them more aggressive.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3692 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
Especially Asia! I have been on their 777's and A330's and while both very nice (except for the angled business seats). Their 777-300's are really amazing- much better than the A330 in space and impressive size. New interiors are reportedly on the way, a good private FIRST (by it's small size) and decent seat. Fix a few things like C, color scheme and change the non Brazilian, charter identity.

TAM has been expanding, especially in Europe where Paris was their first city, recently they joined the Star alliance so flights to Germany were important. LHR is fairly recent too.

TAM just hasn't had enough airplanes, they got teh 2 A345 and used some ex-RG MD-11 for a while as interim planes( teh MD-11 are gone). AS they get another A330 it becomes another flight to JFK, LHR, CDG or FRA. TAM also has had to deal with RIO becoming a gateway and having daily flights to the same destinations it serves from Sao Paulo. TAM was called upon to become the new "Varig" when it didn't have enough planes and didn't place a huge order for new A330, it got a couple here and another few later.

Asia is not practical for TAM to fly for 2 reasons, first it would tie up too many airplanes and second, the distance would require a stop in LAX, Europe or South Africa.

When LATAM become reality, I hope LAN will take the opportuity to turn GRU into the hub it can be by feeding it from SCL and Lima for destiations in Europe that can't be sreved from those two cities.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3540 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
I hope LAN will take the opportuity to turn GRU into the hub it can be by feeding it from SCL and Lima for destiations in Europe that can't be sreved from those two cities.

Regardless of the combination, LAN's general manager for Rio de Janeiro and Northern Brazil, Joao Araújo, maintains the position that LAN plans to expand its operations in Brazil and continues to evaluate new destinations outside of GRU and GIG...Also, LAN does not rule out the possibility of eventually utilizing São Paulo-Guarulhos International Airport as a passenger hub.
http://www.economiaynegocios.cl/noticias/noticias.asp?id=81662


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
if they decide to add Asia service?

While it is always nice to see an airline from the other side of the globe in this region, I applaud TAM for not serving the Asian region just because they have to. Varig and VASP probably served Asia just beacuse of 'prestige' or overly ambitious projected traffic numbers.
Besides TAM is part of the Star network, so they could easily feed the Brazil-Asia traffic to the numerous European or North American hubs. If TAM felt Asian flying is profitable, they would have done so.

If TAM can justify the purchase of an A388 or 748, for those busier routes like GRU-FRA, they would always keep that door open with the manufacturers.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3442 times:
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Quoting carpethead (Reply 18):
Besides TAM is part of the Star network, so they could easily feed the Brazil-Asia traffic to the numerous European or North American hubs.

How many Star hubs does TAM itself operate into and how many connections via code-share agreements with TAM's partners are available to Asia at these hubs?


User currently offlineflythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
But, if I look at SQ, it seems amazing how well they deploy their 10,000 777's

SQ has been getting rid of their 772 and 772ER with A330 replacing them   
next time you better check their recent move before comment  

SQ is learning from CX to operate a good mix of fleet between Airbus and Boeing for better overall performance.


User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1603 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 18):
While it is always nice to see an airline from the other side of the globe in this region, I applaud TAM for not serving the Asian region just because they have to. Varig and VASP probably served Asia just beacuse of 'prestige' or overly ambitious projected traffic numbers.
Besides TAM is part of the Star network, so they could easily feed the Brazil-Asia traffic to the numerous European or North American hubs. If TAM felt Asian flying is profitable, they would have done so.

I agree with what you write but sometimes I found very intriguing the number of Nippo-Brasileiros transiting @CDG from JJ to NH: to give you an example, saturday most bags in transit from JJ were going to NRT on NH.

If the situation is similar at FRA (using LH connx) or LHR, it could justify a GRU-NRT like in the old days.

But then again KE is flying from GRU, so is QR and EK now with probably connx to Japan...plus pax are mostly factory workers and don't buy J in general, so maybe that's why it is not a priority for now



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineOksman From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 18):
Varig and VASP probably served Asia just beacuse of 'prestige' or overly ambitious projected traffic numbers.

Did I miss something? I never knew VASP served Asia! When and which destinations?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3160 times:
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Quoting Oksman (Reply 22):
Quoting carpethead (Reply 18):
Varig and VASP probably served Asia just beacuse of 'prestige' or overly ambitious projected traffic numbers.

Did I miss something? I never knew VASP served Asia! When and which destinations?

Seoul and Osaka ia LAX with MD-11's.


User currently offlineOksman From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 23):
Seoul and Osaka ia LAX with MD-11's.



Tks!


25 carpethead : It doesn't necessarily have to be a Star hub, but TAM & NH/CA/OZ fly to like JFK or CDG.
26 LipeGIG : I agree that nowadays there's room for JJ to use bigger frames. I believe that besides the 77W now in place, they could add 10 B772 that could be used
27 IDISA : The definition of "International airlines" goes much more further than flying a couple of destinations in EU/US. TAM really broke in the internationa
28 Burkhard : I consider TAMs expansian as aggressive already now, and bigger problem TAMs internal organization does not grow with their offers - booking can be a
29 Dellatorre : Clearly we have different assumptions of the term "international".
30 Post contains images Oksman :
31 jj8080 : I agree with you when you say the gap between the A332 and B77W is too big, and that a 270-290 seatter would be very useful for JJ. However, I'd say
32 Viscount724 : I can't get your link to work. I get a "server not found" error message.
33 Asiaflyer : My apologies, but your opening post is abit confusing. Is there any logical reason for them to dump the A350 order, or are you just saying that anyth
34 Post contains links C010T3 : It's http://tam.riweb.com.br/ !
35 jfk777 : TAM needs to call India and inquire about leasing some Air India 777 or Jet Airways 777's.
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