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WN To Open ATL (rumor)  
User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12912 times:

I have been hearing that WN will open ATL in Nov. They will get 4 gates and have 20-30 flights for this opening round.

My guess for the destinations are:

MDW
BWI
PHX
LAS
DEN
HOU


Of course these are all the big ones.

WW

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12859 times:

Um...huh? WN just bought AirTran. They'll have a whole lot more than that going out of ATL.

User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12832 times:

Why get 4 gates, when they have airtran?

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5265 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12734 times:

Maybe it's just to get the ball rolling before the two are formally integrated? It might improve the operational flexibility in allowing WN to get you to ATL without having to transfer at other, perhaps not as convenient stations or times?

Anyhoo...Guess we'll see.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12682 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 1):
Um...huh? WN just bought AirTran. They'll have a whole lot more than that going out of ATL.
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 2):
Why get 4 gates, when they have airtran?

One thing to remember is that for the time being, both airlines will be operated somewhat separately from one another. So until the two operations are merged into a single operating certificate in a few years, the only way for WN to serve ATL until then would be with their own metal. This also gives AirTran's customers in Atlanta a better idea of what WN is like since convincing FL's frequent fliers and business customers to stick around once they are merged into WN is going to be something WN is going to have to focus on.

If WN does in fact open up an ATL station this fall, I think that they may serve cities that FL doesn't currently serve out of ATL.


User currently offlinebcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

I thought I had read somewhere that the integration plan was such that aircraft, crews and routes would slowly be transferred from FL over to WN as birds are painted and reconfigured...and crews are trained/transferred (i.e. FL's footprint will slowly get smaller and smaller). I'm not totally up on the labor integration issues, so maybe I'm off-base here. Perhaps establishing an initial WN brand presence at ATL is a way to start making that plan come to fruition.

bcoz


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22298 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12616 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 4):
If WN does in fact open up an ATL station this fall, I think that they may serve cities that FL doesn't currently serve out of ATL.

It depends on the equipment, I think. For a place like BNA or ECP that is likely to see 717s from ATL, FL probably makes more sense.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinebcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12537 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
It depends on the equipment, I think. For a place like BNA or ECP that is likely to see 717s from ATL, FL probably makes more sense.

Would it make the most sense for WN to start taking over FL's highest O&D routes from ATL?

bcoz


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4877 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12473 times:

Quoting bcoz (Reply 7):


Would it make the most sense for WN to start taking over FL's highest O&D routes from ATL?

Depends on if they are allowed to codeshare, something the WN pilot's contract forbids at the moment. If not, WN would be gutting the viability of the FL hub by cherry picking the top markets.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22298 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12472 times:

Quoting bcoz (Reply 7):
Would it make the most sense for WN to start taking over FL's highest O&D routes from ATL?

Absolutely. I could see ECP - where WN's loads generally are not so hot - being converted into an FL station in the not-so-distant future (perhaps with a change in the cities served, though perhaps not). By the same token, I could see stations like STL and MDW losing FL in a similarly short time frame.

I don't think we can necessarily conclude much about the first "WN stations" from ATL since it's just a temporary thing anyway. I'd guess that the first "WN stations" will be those where the 137 seat 73G is useful and/or FL is pretty small (many cities are both).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12458 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 4):
So until the two operations are merged into a single operating certificate in a few years,

WN is shooting for a SOC by the end of the first quarter next year. SOC is far from years away.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22298 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12435 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 8):
Depends on if they are allowed to codeshare, something the WN pilot's contract forbids at the moment.

I expect WN to ask the pilots for and receive a codeshare on the condition that total ASMs flown by WN pilots do not decrease (or do not decrease any more than FL ASMs decrease) in the not-so-distant future. I don't know why WN pilots, who have a pretty good relationship with management, would not go for such an arrangement.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12434 times:

Very interesting, and the idea makes some sense. Just curious though, why 4 gates not more or less

User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12416 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 1):
Um...huh? WN just bought AirTran. They'll have a whole lot more than that going out of ATL.

I am sure they will have much much more. But they need to start now. They can not simply open the station with 200+ flights overnight.

I am sure they will simply contiune to take pieces of ATL until everything is fully intergrated.

WW


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5992 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12360 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 2):

It could be opening with just 4 gates cause as said above, they are still operating separate. Therefor gates are not set up yet for the type of operation WN runs. Also, FL only has a limited amount of 737 capable gates and you can't give them all to WN, cause FL still has their operation to run.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Absolutely. I could see ECP - where WN's loads generally are not so hot - being converted into an FL station in the not-so-distant future (perhaps with a change in the cities served, though perhaps not)

I wonder what changes are allowed to WN under the terms of their agreement with St. Joe at ECP. Might be interesting.

[Edited 2011-05-22 13:06:05]

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12253 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 10):

WN is shooting for a SOC by the end of the first quarter next year. SOC is far from years away.

While it has been reported that they intend on SOC by that time, it doesn't necessarily means it will happen, especially when you consider that the combined airline is going to need a common CRS system, which is something WN is already looking into, but a final decision on a vendor has not been made. I think that the end of Q1 2012 may be a bit ambitious.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12148 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 8):
Depends on if they are allowed to codeshare, something the WN pilot's contract forbids at the moment.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
I expect WN to ask the pilots for and receive a codeshare on the condition that total ASMs flown by WN pilots do not decrease (or do not decrease any more than FL ASMs decrease) in the not-so-distant future. I don't know why WN pilots, who have a pretty good relationship with management, would not go for such an arrangement.

WN isn't going to have to ask for authority to codeshare with FL because, if everything goes as planned, both FL and WN pilots will be on the same contract and certificate by the time they really start to switch ATL from FL to WN.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 16):

You may be right. I'm just going off the current plan.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently onlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3782 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12012 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
I could see ECP - where WN's loads generally are not so hot - being converted into an FL station in the not-so-distant future

I don't think it makes much sense to take a station only served by Southwest (but not AirTran) and then convert it into an AirTran station, and then have to convert it back to a Southwest station once the integration is complete. I think the cities chosen will be a mix of Southwest's largest stations (regardless of whether or not they are served by AirTran) and a few Southwest-only stations (like AUS or JAN for example.) If some of the initial WN routes from ATL are to Southwest's larger stations (even if AirTran also serves that station from ATL) pax could still make onward connections to other cities like RNO or SMF for example, that one cannot get to using AirTran

Quoting srbmod (Reply 16):
While it has been reported that they intend on SOC by that time, it doesn't necessarily means it will happen, especially when you consider that the combined airline is going to need a common CRS system, which is something WN is already looking into, but a final decision on a vendor has not been made. I think that the end of Q1 2012 may be a bit ambitious.

It's my understanding that they are shooting for SOC by Q! 2012, but their target date for full integration will be 2014

Source

LoneStarMike


User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4966 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

It sort of makes no sense, since the major WN stations (e.g. BWI, MDW) are already served by Airtran, and you can connect through ATL on a single ticket if you go on FL all the way. If you start on WN, then you need a new FL ticket, since they are not integrated and won't be by November (indeed won't be until long after SOC).

User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

WN generally announces a new city at least 6 months out. That means that they have to announce something... now.


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlinebcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11730 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 20):
WN generally announces a new city at least 6 months out. That means that they have to announce something... now.

I don't really think you can look at this in terms of it being a "new" city... thus throwing WN's track record regarding timing out the window. We already know WN is coming to Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. This isn't a new market, per-se. I'd venture to guess they'll announce and market things in the best interest of the overall integration plan.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11469 times:

My guess is it totally depends on if there will be interlining (code sharing).
With code sharing I could see WN getting into cities FL doesn't serve: AUS, SDF, ORF, CHS, CLE, SAN, providing new connection opportunities.

Of course the normal stations make sense, but would go up against FL: MDW, BWI, PHX, LAS, DEN, HOU. FL could pull back services from MDW/7, BWI/7, HOU/7 if WN entered.

If WN is in control, maybe they take over routes at common stations that FL only flies to ATL: SAT, MEM, RDU, IAD.
Then FL could use that aircraft time to boost service at other common stations: DEN/3, MCI/3, STL/4, HOU/7, MSY/3, IND/3, MDW/7.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22298 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9843 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 18):
I don't think it makes much sense to take a station only served by Southwest (but not AirTran) and then convert it into an AirTran station, and then have to convert it back to a Southwest station once the integration is complete.

In the grand scheme, the costs are pretty low - keep the staff the same and switch the IT and signage.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 17):
WN isn't going to have to ask for authority to codeshare with FL because, if everything goes as planned, both FL and WN pilots will be on the same contract and certificate by the time they really start to switch ATL from FL to WN.

Do they need to? No, but there's no reason for them not to.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2774 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9804 times:

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 13):
They can not simply open the station with 200+ flights overnight.

Why not? They aren't opening anything. It's already opened by AirTran.


25 1337Delta764 : I really hope they don't start ATL-ABQ, otherwise they will probably steal most (if not all) of DL's market share on the route. Many people in Albuque
26 WABENNER : I think WN should open ATL ASAP, with flights to BWI, HOU, MDW minimum.
27 catiii : You do realize this is a for profit free market business, right? DL will have to respond to the market in that case. Seems like the people of ABQ pre
28 flyinryan99 : I will throw my two cents in...I think this rumor has some crediblilty. I think they will open ATL with routes to their major markets and push AirTran
29 goblin211 : If they can focus on serving cities neither FL nor WN has served before that would be a great start for setting up a hub, IMHO.
30 1337Delta764 : No, it is because these people have fallen for the myth that WN will always have the lowest fares no matter what.
31 mayor : Why not? During the DL/WA merger, DL went from 5 flights to 160+. overnight in SLC.
32 slcdeltarumd11 : This rumor does make alot of sense for WN. Are these 4 airtran gates or are they going to be getting 4 new gates?
33 Post contains links LoneStarMike : It's a new market for existing Southwest customers and will probably be marketed as such. That's how it appeared to work with the cities that came on
34 catiii : Look at what I said: I didn't say "Seems like the people of ABQ prefer Southwest's lowest fares," did I? You're stuck on fares. I'm talking about pro
35 1337Delta764 : I highly doubt that is the reason though. Many of these people will go straight to Southwest.com without comparing fares with other airlines. There i
36 catiii : That's a pretty absolute statement, and you have nothing to back it up with. Depends what you're shopping for. Value? Better customer service? Schedu
37 Cubsrule : What evidence do you have to support this assertion? Nothing? Say what you want about the intangibles, but the seat pitch and the lack of bag fees ar
38 LoneStarMike : DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! From ABQ, Southwest offers nonstop service to 21 different cities - Baltimore-Washington, Chicago (Midway), Dalla
39 FL787 : I don't think you understand. By the time a codeshare would be necessary, WN would be asking WN pilots if it's ok to codeshare with themselves. All F
40 atrude777 : I think we are understanding the same thing but I wanted to clarify if you meant that "technically Southwest Flights are operated by Air Tran" which
41 knope2001 : Usually an early step of acquisition is the establishment of a code share relationship between the two carriers. If this were a more run-of-the-mill t
42 Cubsrule : That's what I was driving at above. It's odd to me that they don't codeshare, especially since we know that both carriers' IT infrastructures are cap
43 OA412 : It wouldn't suprise me if they decide to go ahead with opening ATL before the merger is complete. It will allow them to get their name out there befor
44 Post contains links GizmoNC : Current SWA pilot contract does not allow codesharing: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/ scroll down to the Southwest Airlines CEO "more enthused" b
45 MSPNWA : This rumor would make a lot of sense. I bet FL has some slack in their gate usage at ATL, so WN can step in and add additional service from their hubs
46 Post contains images FL787 : That's not what I meant. My current understanding is there will never be a WN flight operated by FL. Only WN operated by WN, FL operated by FL, and e
47 PlanesNTrains : Thank you for your opinions, but that's all they are. If WN was that bad or that expensive, then they'd be a lot less successful in ABQ. The fact tha
48 slcdeltarumd11 : Every airline has some product advantages but WN especially has some major product advantages 2 FREE checked bags, NO change fees, NO RJs, 32-33" sea
49 splitterz : The most basic one is missing..assigned seating!
50 knope2001 : Yes...and it's generally understood that this puts an end to the Skywest code-share flying...but do you believe this prevents Southwest from offering
51 tootallsd : At least then it is somewhat in my control. Whereas on DL and most carriers, if I book late (and usually pay the most) I will get the crappiest seat
52 Cubsrule : How would it be any more confusing than the TZ codeshare?
53 wwtraveler99 : Now when you check-in too late on other carrier what happens? I guess you get whatever seat you want? Or do you get what is left? Really no differenc
54 737tanker : That wouldn't by smart. If FL flew a passenger from ATL-HOU then the passenger continued via codeshare on WN HOU-ABQ hw would that passenger get back
55 rl757pvd : The largest, non-western voids in the LCC network from ATL are: PVD, BDL, SDF and LIT. It could make more sense for WN to add stations like that rathe
56 enilria : I doubt it. FL flies to all of WN's hubs already from ATL. I'm told that the bigger problem is technical. Here is the order of difficulty... 1) FL co
57 knope2001 : The ticket ATL-HOU-ABQ and ABQ-HOU-ATL would all be issued as an FL ticket. As with any code sharing, the agents who work with these tickets would ne
58 Cubsrule : In the same general direction as SDF and LIT, AUS and BNA probably belong on that list as well (as does DAL, but that's a funny animal).
59 rl757pvd : Forgot about those, esp AUS
60 wjcandee : On what -- 3 planes?
61 WNCrew : It's around 80 planes right now I believe.... granted STILL a small portion of the fleet, but no, it's not 3. I have to agree somewhat though, we are
62 737tanker : I understand that but if a passenger goes from a WN aircraft to a FL aircraft and is on the same ticket then that is against the SWA pilot's contract
63 GSPSPOT : Sorry if this has come up already, but if WN can just waltz in and get 4 gates, why didn't they just do that to begin with instead of buying a whole a
64 LoneStarMike : Well being that Southwest now owns AirTran, I would imagine that's where the 4 gates are coming from. Gates that weren't available for Southwest unti
65 catiii : I think while it was partly about Atlanta, remember that the overall acquisition allows WN to achieve about 25% growth much faster than it would on i
66 ADent : Having flown UA a lot (but not enough to be Premier) - WN's seating is MUCH better than UA - both single and multiple people. AA wasn't so good eithe
67 QANTAS747-438 : The Southwest schedule for NOV-JAN is out and there is NO ATL service on it. Looks like the rumor is false.
68 LoneStarMike : You must be looking at something internal. I know the schedule is supposed to be extended today, but as of 3:30 AM May 24, (three hours after your po
69 wwtraveler99 : Not sayinf this is true or false. But just because the extend something doesn't mean they can not add it later. This has happened before, especially
70 Post contains links and images SANFan : I agree with all 3 of your points '99. And btw, there is some interesting stuff going on over on the "WN-Extended Sked" thread as well: WN Extends Sc
71 keagkid101 : Didn't WN say they weren't going to open anymore new cities this year?
72 wwtraveler99 : Ok so I see that WN extended their schedule until Jan 2012. Again, this does not mean that ATL can not open in Nov. Less likely? Maybe. But I have hea
73 Cubsrule : How is WN coming to ATL earlier than they otherwise would a good birthday present? That seems silly to me.
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