Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Lufthansa To Terminate FRA - HYD  
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17355 times:

According to the GDS effective W11, LH will terminate it's 3 weekly FRA - HYD which is being operated by A343/A333.

I thought LH would pull CCU before HYD. I guess now BA can increase it's 5 weekly LHR - HYD services. Probably LH can retain it's presence in HYD and in future CCU (I expect CCU to go as well) via DEL through AI code shares.

[Edited 2011-05-24 08:24:24]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17271 times:

sadly, the demand curve is too different

London (and UK) actually has a large enough Indian migrant population that a link to a small town (relative to DEL/BOM) like HYD actually is feasible

LH, however, nearly entirely depends on connections, so i'm surprised LH actually managed to survive that long already. Maybe a smaller 767-300 (which LH doesn't have) on 3x weekly would make it work instead ?


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 17163 times:

About a year ago I flew BOM-FRA sector on AI's BOM-FRA-ORD flight, and it seemed to be taken up mostly by HYD originating passengers bound for ORD. I wonder if AI's HYD-ORD/NYC connection via DEL had something to do with LH's decision.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2153 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 17118 times:

India flights are exceptionally low-yielding. Moreover, I wouldn't hesitate to guess that LH might be feeling the heat from EK, which has invaded LH's Indian territory and managed to flood the market with cheap fares and better connections via DXB.

I must say, the dynamics of the Indian aviation market continue to evolve so quickly...it never ceases to fascinate me.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16797 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

That is indeed a surprise for me. DIdn't expect that.

Looks like LH is really changing its network and optimizing it. Let's see what other changes will take place the next couple of weeks.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16711 times:

Maybe more routes to South America? Fingers crossed...


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16678 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
I wonder if AI's HYD-ORD/NYC connection via DEL had something to do with LH's decision.

I suppose so. HYD is mainly a low yielding market so I guess AI outdid them with the non stops via DEL and BOM. Not to forget that people like QR, EK, EY have presence at HYD.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15374 times:

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
(I expect CCU to go as well)

Why is it that no one can make CCU work from Europe? BA gave up on LHR-CCU a few years ago. Is there just no business demand?



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15025 times:

Personally, I don't read too much into this. HYD was probably never the most lucrative market for LH. Maybe it has to do with 9W joining Star Alliance and this is some sort of a concession/dowry type of deal.

Won't be very hard for LH to find another route to put that airplane on. Arguably a more profitable one at that.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinefortunerunnner From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14676 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 7):
Why is it that no one can make CCU work from Europe? BA gave up on LHR-CCU a few years ago. Is there just no business demand?


Business unfriendly communist party led state governments in West Bengal have crippled business industry and made CCU a least developed city among all big cities in India. Naturally, there isnt any business demand due to the fact that only businesses left in WB are relics of the past such as state controlled companies in the heavy industry which are not known for efficiency and/or overseas travel.

Fortunately there was change in government at the state level and just this week new government took control of the state. Lets keep fingers crossed and hope CCU also joins the growth bandwagon and is not left behind in the Incredible India story.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13236 times:

LH should have gone the BA route, maintain the 5 times a week frequency with smaller aircraft. But with thin frequencies and checked baggage restrictions, this route was doomed when they cut it to 3 times a week. CCU may be affected as QR has started CCU. Its full impact will not be known for another 6 months, but after that LH could struggle.

User currently offlinefaucett From Peru, joined Jul 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13090 times:

For someone like me that spends time in HYD, I must say this is a blow. It was when LH reduced from 5 to 3 weekly, and now gone? Bad news.

As for Hyderabad, maybe it's low yielding, but it is a bustling economic powerhouse to be. Not yet Bangalore, but on the way...

I hope LH returns, and soon.
European airlines arrive in India at night (to BOM,DEL,MAA,BLR...), and connecting flights at nighttime from these cities to HYD are not always available, and if they are, it means arriving in the middle of the night. Not the best fit.

LH in HYD will be missed....



faucett
User currently offlineIcarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12365 times:

I flew this route three times and the load was 100% both in eco and business!
So now, except BA, there's no more euro carrier flying this route? What about KL?



Flying is amazing!
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12331 times:

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 12):
So now, except BA, there's no more euro carrier flying this route? What about KL?

KLM terminated AMS - HYD some time back. The only Euro carrier now at HYD is BA with B763/B772.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12292 times:

Will AI look at connecting HYD and CCU(assuming LH withdraws) to FRA with 788s in the future? I don't know if it will be easy to get slots that connect to LH banks from FRA to NA and Europe.

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12258 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 14):

Will AI look at connecting HYD and CCU(assuming LH withdraws) to FRA with 788s in the future?

Not at all, why on earth will AI keep adding flights to FRA? If LH could not make it work what chance does AI have?



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5919 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11997 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 5):
Maybe more routes to South America? Fingers crossed...

lets hope for LIM!



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11867 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 15):
Not at all, why on earth will AI keep adding flights to FRA? If LH could not make it work what chance does AI have?

For one, B788s are expected to have lower trip fuel burn than the equipment LH is currently using on the route. The 788s will offer many less seats than A343/A333, with lower CASM and possibly higher RASM.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11750 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 17):
For one, B788s are expected to have lower trip fuel burn than the equipment LH is currently using on the route. The 788s will offer many less seats than A343/A333, with lower CASM and possibly higher RASM.

That is valid only if we were talking about LH and AI in the context of O-D traffic. LH is carrying all the HYD traffic to the US, Canada, UK most of which is low yielding. AI would rather carry that traffic via DEL/BOM than unnecessarily start HYD/CCU - FRA flights.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11645 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 18):
LH is carrying all the HYD traffic to the US, Canada, UK most of which is low yielding. AI would rather carry that traffic via DEL/BOM than unnecessarily start HYD/CCU - FRA flights.

The advantage of B788 is that you can keep the same number of F and J seats, while you drop a lot of the low yielding Y seats. I do not have the yield structure of LH's HYD-FRA flight, but it is possible that AI in conjunction with LH can offer one-stop flights to many points in NA from HYD that it can not offer on its own via DEL.

Perhaps LH will look into buying 787s and not give up on routes like HYD. Here's a thread where I compare the A333 to B789.
B789 Versus A359 Analysis (by LAXDESI May 20 2011 in Tech Ops)


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3206 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

Quoting faucett (Reply 11):
European airlines arrive in India at night (to BOM,DEL,MAA,BLR...), and connecting flights at nighttime from these cities to HYD are not always available, and if they are, it means arriving in the middle of the night. Not the best fit.

I would recommend the LH MUC-DEL flights to connect quickly to HYD - as it's a day time arrival in Delhi and a quick connection should be available to HYD.

Sad to hear about this change to LH's India network, certainly a sign of pressure from the likes of EK/ QR/ EY on the one hand and AI on the other. May the best product win  



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 19):
but it is possible that AI in conjunction with LH can offer one-stop flights to many points in NA from HYD that it can not offer on its own via DEL.
HYD - USA traffic is concentrated around ORD, EWR, JFK where AI serves non stop from India. To start FRA just to serve the rest of America that too for a handful of people is pointless.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 19):
The advantage of B788 is that you can keep the same number of F and J seats, while you drop a lot

The F, J market out of HYD is not at all strong which is the primary reason LH pulled this flight and even B788 operational economics (which still has not been proved) is not going to help. Here you are dealing with VFR traffic mostly for whom price matters most and the likes of EK, EY, QR, AI/UA, BA, SQ/MI, IT/AA can just get you anywhere in the USA from HYD with 1 stop and 2 stop options.

[Edited 2011-05-25 00:29:11]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11043 times:

When the new airport opened I was hoping it would bring in new flights from Europe. I fly to HYD alot from Seattle and prefer BA through LHR over LH. Hope BA stays!

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 21):
HYD - USA traffic is concentrated around ORD, EWR, JFK where AI serves non stop from India. To start FRA just to serve the rest of America that too for a handful of people is pointless.

California has about the same number of Indian Americans than NY and NJ put together. Anecdotally, I see more Telegu people in California than NY/NJ(where I use to live).

Do you have any data on distribution of HYD originating passengers to USA or it is just an assertion on your part?

Quoting ojas (Reply 21):
The F, J market out of HYD is not at all strong which is the primary reason LH pulled this flight and even B788 operational economics (which still has not been proved) is not going to help.

Do you have any data on load and yield on F/J from HYD?


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2954 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9043 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
California has about the same number of Indian Americans than NY and NJ put together.

I'm sorry but as I said earlier the number of Indian Americans or resident Americans is not the only parameter in determining flights between India and a point there.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
Do you have any data on distribution of HYD originating passengers to USA or it is just an assertion on your part?

I'll get it across in a few hours.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
Do you have any data on load and yield on F/J from HYD?

Let the F, J yield/load be aside for a moment. But If LH is unable to feed passengers to it's own network using an A330 (whose operational economics I believe is pretty good), what good with AI do feeding it to LH's network?

While the people who study performances of planes know better, FWIW the B787 is not going to be that revolutionizing that it will change a low yielding or loss making destination to a money making destination.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
25 Boeing747_600 : The FRA-HYD flight might've been, but not all of them are. LH's FRA-BLR was upgraded to a B744 several years ago and is one of their most profitable
26 DTWLAX : 9W joining Star Alliance??? Where do you get this information from?
27 Post contains links United777 : Hey look on the bright side. LH Cargo is looking to make HYD a cargo hub. http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...affic-growth-may-be-sparse_1547480
28 Post contains links and images lightsaber : Sad to see this flight dropped. I have to agree with others, with the strength of the FRA hub, if LH isn't making this route work, no one else in *A c
29 mah4546 : That is nowhere close to being true. Between JAN10 and DEC10, just over 400,000 people flew between HYD and the United States, and less than 150,000
30 ojas : You're numbers are correct, I agree. However it just proves the point much better. For that market size you have EK (2 daily connections to JFK, IAH,
31 DTWLAX : Nothing has been confirmed yet. Star Alliance have not made any announcement nor has 9W said anything.
32 LAXDESI : Thanks for the numbers. IAD-HYD being larger than EWR-HYD is a surprise. Is there a public source besides US DOT that one can access data like the ab
33 hohd : Like others I am disappointed that we now have one less option to HYD. I think BA can consolidate its position at HYD and might go daily. For those go
34 manny : I think as time goes by and more and more people fly nonstop between Indian and US, most of these European carriers will see a significant dent in the
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Lufthansa To Cancel Own Executive Aircrafts posted Sat Jan 8 2011 15:32:17 by 328JET
Lufthansa To Add 4,000 New Jobs posted Mon Jan 3 2011 03:13:00 by Robffm2
Lufthansa To Barbados? (and Other Stuff) posted Thu Dec 23 2010 07:16:58 by turk223
Lufthansa To Build Satellite T2 At MUC posted Thu Dec 23 2010 04:31:36 by B6A322
Lufthansa To Overhaul Cabin On European Flights posted Mon Jun 28 2010 13:15:03 by BAfan
Lufthansa To Start Munich - Baghdad posted Fri May 28 2010 05:25:20 by ojas
Lufthansa To Resume Flights To Iraq In April posted Wed Mar 24 2010 04:21:40 by yazoo
CX To Terminate BOM - DXB? posted Fri Dec 25 2009 21:18:56 by Ojas
Lufthansa To Reduce Row Spacing And Service posted Tue Nov 17 2009 00:36:38 by Tobias2702
Lufthansa To Serve Tashkent Again posted Tue Oct 20 2009 05:04:16 by LondonCity
Lufthansa To Phase Out 38 Aircraft posted Mon Oct 31 2011 02:11:17 by columba
Lufthansa To Launch Dusseldorf-Tokyo posted Fri Oct 14 2011 08:29:36 by LIPZ
Lufthansa To Start Seasonal Dusseldorf-Knock posted Thu Sep 15 2011 01:55:59 by santos
Lufthansa To Cancel Own Executive Aircrafts posted Sat Jan 8 2011 15:32:17 by 328JET
Lufthansa To Add 4,000 New Jobs posted Mon Jan 3 2011 03:13:00 by Robffm2
Lufthansa To Barbados? (and Other Stuff) posted Thu Dec 23 2010 07:16:58 by turk223