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Boeing / ANA Flying 787 In Japan In July  
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6955 posts, RR: 63
Posted (3 years 6 months 9 hours ago) and read 14744 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...st-787-in-august-or-september.html

The airframer will work with ANA to deploy the second flight test aircraft, ZA002, on flights within Japan during the week of 4 July to "simulate in-service operations across several airports in Japan in a service ready operational validation", said Boeing.

The flights are expected to be operated between Tokyo Haneda airport and airports in Osaka (both Itami and Kansai airports), Okayama and Hiroshima.


Hiroshima!                 

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 14565 times:

Interesting but is it really necessary? I know Airbus did it with the A380 to the main airports but that was a lot different.

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 14361 times:

I'm a bit surprised ZA002 will be used. Sure, it has the ANA colors, but wouldn't ZA004 be more useful? At least ZA004 has a passenger cabin (albeit partially installed), isn't something that needs testing in "service ready operational validation"?


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31234 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 14325 times:
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Quoting frigatebird (Reply 2):
Sure, it has the ANA colors, but wouldn't ZA004 be more useful? At least ZA004 has a passenger cabin (albeit partially installed), isn't something that needs testing in "service ready operational validation"?

ZA004 will be part of the ETOPS and Functional Reliability testing starting in about two weeks so I don't think it will be available.

It sounds like what ZA002 will be doing is ground operations - motor along taxiways, park at a gate, allow the jet bridge and service vehicles to make connections, etc. So there is no need to have seating.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 13961 times:

Quoting truemanQLD (Reply 1):
Interesting but is it really necessary?

If you're launch customer says its necessary, it's necessary.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 2):
I'm a bit surprised ZA002 will be used. Sure, it has the ANA colors, but wouldn't ZA004 be more useful? At least ZA004 has a passenger cabin (albeit partially installed), isn't something that needs testing in "service ready operational validation"?

ZA004 doesn't have a full passenger cabin, that's ZA003.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
ZA004 will be part of the ETOPS and Functional Reliability testing starting in about two weeks so I don't think it will be available.

There are multiple web sources claiming ETOPS will be on ZA102...the only web sources I can find saying it will be on ZA004 are really really old (2+ years).

Tom.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31234 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 13807 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4):
There are multiple web sources claiming ETOPS will be on ZA102...the only web sources I can find saying it will be on ZA004 are really really old (2+ years).

ZA004 is being fitted with the Trent 1000 Package B engines so I would think Boeing would want to use it to test that combination of airframe and engine.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 13782 times:

did ANA announce their route intentions for the 787 ?

User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 13734 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4):
ZA004 doesn't have a full passenger cabin, that's ZA003.

I thought it was only a partial cabin on the 003???


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 13674 times:

IIRC it's planned since a long time ago and not uncommon. Such flights without passenger was done with 737NG and 777 as well.

Wonder if Boeing/ANA will making some proving (passenger) flights with ZA102 (which has the full cabin) after ETOPS flying and prior delivery (similar like the A380 proving flights)

[Edited 2011-05-26 07:17:11]

User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
I thought it was only a partial cabin on the 003???

IIRC 04 flew before 03, maybe that's what's throwing you - perhaps you're getting mixed up with ZA003 and "the third" frame?



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 13298 times:
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Quoting truemanQLD (Reply 1):
Interesting but is it really necessary? I know Airbus did it with the A380 to the main airports but that was a lot different

Why is it a lot different?
Each aircraft has it's unique needs and challenges.
Anything that can ensure a smooth EIS is beneficial.


User currently offlinecalibansa333 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 12557 times:

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 10):
Why is it a lot different?

I think trueman is referring to the size of the a380 and the fact that the airlines wanted to make sure such a large aircraft would operate without problems (taxiing, gate service for two decks, new equipment etc.) before deploying it. The 787 is a pretty average size aircraft so there's not much new to compensate for besides the new systems. I suspect integration of the 787 will be quite easy and I suspect that's what trueman thought as well.


User currently offlineRG787 From Brazil, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 11771 times:

Maybe it has something to do with the ETOPS approval... I remember reading somewhere Japan requested one year of flying before approving a new type to ETOPS.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31234 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 11699 times:
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Quoting RG787 (Reply 12):
Maybe it has something to do with the ETOPS approval... I remember reading somewhere Japan requested one year of flying before approving a new type to ETOPS.

Yes, NH and JL will need to demonstrate one year of service before they will be granted their ETOPS Operator (?) Certificates.

But I really think this is more for "airport familiarization" so NH can see exactly how a 787-8 will integrate at airports it will first see service at and finalize their Ground Ops procedures and policies.


User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 11232 times:

Quoting truemanQLD (Reply 1):
Interesting but is it really necessary? I know Airbus did it with the A380 to the main airports but that was a lot different.

I suspect their pilots will be receiving training on the aircraft as well.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 11207 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 14):
I suspect their pilots will be receiving training on the aircraft as well.

... and ground crew familiarization as well.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 11063 times:

Looks like a beautiful day coming up for ANA and the Japanese. How long will each flight take?


From the airport with love
User currently offlinejessbp From UK - Wales, joined Dec 2010, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 10667 times:

Awesome stuff. I'm out in Tokyo from July the 6th staying in a hotel with a view out towards haneda, right below the flight path. I'll be keeping my camera on standby.

User currently offlinebkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 10525 times:

ZA003 has the passenger cabin. Not 4. Ive been on both. And yes this flight is necessary, because its a customer proving trip.

User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8257 times:
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CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting flylku (Reply 14):
I suspect their pilots will be receiving training on the aircraft as well.

I was at BFI last week and the 'guide' at the concorde display mentioned that there was ANA crew training going on right now in Seattle. He said it was quite common to see them doing patterns an T&G's. Alas, I did not see any, though I did see a number of 787 fly-overs where I was north of BFI. Amazingly quiet....



rcair1
User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

June is also the rainy season here with a warm front extending over Kyushu and Honshu. This would help pilots experience how the plane handles in turbulence and wet weather landings/take offs.

User currently offlinejgw787 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6345 times:

ill believe it when i see it

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6114 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
I thought it was only a partial cabin on the 003???

It depends what you mean by "full" and "partial." ZA003 was the airplane at Farnborough, there are lots of pictures in the a.net database. It has complete galleys, lavs, crew rests, sidewalls, bins, etc. It has seats in the nose and tail section. It doesn't have seats in the middle section because that's where the flight test data system is installed. All the different pieces are there, it basically just doesn't have a full compliment of seats.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 9):
IIRC 04 flew before 03

Correct.

Tom.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5477 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5869 times:

Every milestone that gets this project up and running, (or flying), as was intended is good and exciting. It should be a thrill and a relief for ANA to finally be flying the 787 at home airports.

They backed this thing...it's time to get some glory.



What the...?
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Yes, NH and JL will need to demonstrate one year of service before they will be granted their ETOPS Operator (?) Certificates.

JL intends start its 787 operations with BOS as their first destination though   Starting April 22, 2012. source



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
25 Post contains images Stitch : I am going to guess they're referring to the upper end of the scale (180/24/0/330) for trans-pac operations between Japan and North/South America. Lo
26 Stitch : Here is part of Boeing's statement on the event, detailing what will be undertaken:
27 Post contains images yeogeo : Has ANA ever indicated what revenue flights they'll operate domestically and for how long before transitioning to international? I ask because I have
28 carpethead : Not yet. This is with good reason. NH probably has lost all confidence in Boeing's 787 certification program. Only thing they haven't is that it will
29 Burkhard : Wasn't first delivery planned for end of june? Now some test flying in July - when is the actual first delivery planned now?
30 carpethead : According to ANA, they are planning August or September for first delivery.
31 Post contains images Stitch : The current plan says end of Q3 2011, so a late July/early August delivery would actually be ahead of schedule.
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