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AI To Cancel 787 Order?  
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13835 times:

It would be a move in the right direction, as more planes means larger losses for AI.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...dreamliners-turnaround-plan-boeing
Quote:
In the big first reality check, the government will now have to decide if deep-in-red Air India should cancel the order for the 27 Boeing 787 Dreamliners worth almost $4 billion.

"Boeing has offered about $500 million, of which $264 million is notional compensation as that is the difference in price of aircraft ordered by AI and now. Our demand, keeping lost opportunity and other things in mind, was about $1 billion. The panel is of the view that the government and AI board should take a call whether AI needs to persist with this order and a further commitment of almost $4 billion when its financial condition finds difficult to pay for anything at all," said sources.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

I was up in Seattle a few weeks ago and went by Boeing Feild and saw at least (2) AI 787 in full colors. Can they cancel these aircraft? To answer my own question, I guess they can and just paint it in another carriers livery.


John@SFO
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13797 times:

With the financial situation AI are in, I think the more pertinent question should be "Will the govt of India cancel AI"  


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User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13728 times:

This article has no credibility whatsoever. The contents are just "recommendations" from a team and nothing to do with the managements intents. The aircrafts that AI want to get rid of are all the B777-200LRs and some B77Ws while keeping all the B787s.

On the contrary there are rumors floating around that NH will defer B787 orders resulting in AI or QR being the launch customer. Again It's just a rumor.

[Edited 2011-05-26 09:17:12]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31417 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13678 times:
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Yeah, AI is expected to be one of the airlines to receive their first birds this year.

AI originally wanted $710 million, then raised it to $845 million. Boeing was contractually obligated to pay $145 million and are now offering $500 million.

I am of the personal opinion that AI will take at least the 787s already completed or in the production pipeline, but if they really are at risk of running out of cash, I could see them defer or cancel later scheduled deliveries.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13568 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
This article has no credibility whatsoever. The contents are just "recommendations" from a team and nothing to do with the managements intents.

It is an official panel that can provide cover for GOI to pull the plug on the order. Management may want to buy the 787s, but it does not have the money to pay operational bills, let alone new aircraft.

GOI should use the $4 billion to spend on transportation infrastructure, and not AI.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
On the contrary there are rumors floating around that NH will defer B787 orders resulting in AI or QR being the launch customer. Again It's just a rumor.

Based on...

Boeing / ANA Flying 787 In Japan In July (by PM May 26 2011 in Civil Aviation)

I think we can assume NH will be the launch customer.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12942 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
On the contrary there are rumors floating around that NH will defer B787 orders resulting in AI or QR being the launch customer. Again It's just a rumor.

Half of Seattle just had palpitations after reading that!

It wouldn't surprise me if AI got rid of its 77Ls, but the problem is that it's a "niche" aircraft, much like the A345; sure, they might want to get rid of it, but who would take them. 77Ws, on the other hand ...

Incidentally, the B777 production list shows three AI 77Ws on order; VT-ALV, W and X; will these aircraft be delivered, or will AI try to offload them to another customer?


User currently offlineOksman From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12367 times:

Sorry, a little off topic, but will AI crisis affect they joining Star?

Denis


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6349 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11532 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
t wouldn't surprise me if AI got rid of its 77Ls, but the problem is that it's a "niche" aircraft, much like the A345; sure, they might want to get rid of it, but who would take them.

Well QF could use a couple on DFW-BNE-SYD right about now.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10722 times:

Does anybody know how the 787s were/are to fit AI's fleet and network? What are they replacing? And what new routes will be opened up?

User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10119 times:

1. While AI doesn't need these 787s now, it will need them in several years when economic conditions improve and when they finally join Star Alliance.
2. As mentioned in several other threads it seams that AI is not even close to joining Star Alliance. AI has shown no interest in developing relationships with Star Alliance members In North America such that AC, CO, UA and US don't even have code-sharing or reciprocal frequent flier arrangements with AI yet. Instead they've all decided to pursue relationships with other airlines primarily with 9W and QR in the region. AC has a code-share agreement with 9W. CO One Pass members earn miles on IT after recently discontinuing a previous deal with EK. After May 29th, UA will continue to code-share and have reciprocal frequent flier relationships with 9W and QR when it terminates its current agreement with EK on the previous day. US code-shares with QR and its Dividend Miles members earn miles on 9W and QR. If AI was quicker to join AI, it might have been desperate for those 787s by now as its marketing efforts would be more effective in attracting greater numbers of international travelers.
3. As a result AI's main Indian competitor 9W has code-sharing and/or reciprocal frequent flier relationships with five North American Airlines: AA, AC, DL, UA and US.



--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9609 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
It wouldn't surprise me if AI got rid of its 77Ls, but the problem is that it's a "niche" aircraft,

It almost seems like the perfect niche for non stop N.American ops. A quick GCMapper chart shows DEL-LAX at 7000nm.



What the...?
User currently offlinespr773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 2):

Totally agree.
AI have gone from bad to worse. They don't improve inspite of the government pumping money. They should cancel all orders and even de-merge Indian Airlines. Post the merger there have been lots of problems the joint entity has faced starting with unions of both companies to aircraft management. They can make it like an alliance and trim losses IMHO.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

Quoting spr773 (Reply 13):

Is it possible or practical for AI to be made private or fixed or would it basically have to be dissolved and something all new created?



What the...?
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2755 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6846 times:

ATW had a story where they compared Air India with Rip Van Winkle. Somnolent while the world goes by.

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...article/waking-rip-van-winkle-0401

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
It wouldn't surprise me if AI got rid of its 77Ls, but the problem is that it's a "niche" aircraft, much like the A345; sure, they might want to get rid of it, but who would take them. 77Ws, on the other hand ...

While it is a niche plane, installing only 238 seats probably makes matters worse. QR has 259 seats, AC has 270 seats. DL has 276 seats, EK has 286 seats. I do not understand how AI can complain about not making money with the 772LR when they only put in 238 seats. EK has 346 seats in some of their 772ER. I would not be surpriced that AI could get a better revenue from their 772LR if it was configured like its competitors.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 15):

Very enlightening article...thanks.



What the...?
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 3):
On the contrary there are rumors floating around that NH will defer B787 orders resulting in AI or QR being the launch customer. Again It's just a rumor.

So do these 'rumours' have any credibility then and, if so, what/how?


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
So do these 'rumours' have any credibility then and, if so, what/how?

Personally I'm finding it very hard to believe thus I thought I'd post here just in case someone else heard the same or not. However the source's accuracy of information has been pretty good which is why I'm confused.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Wonder how all the "free" 787s fit into airlines like QF crying poor? $500 million must about to what 3 free ones, so while it may have been a pest waiting for them, the 787s should make a remarkable contribution to bottom lines even if they were not more economical to fly than competing planes.

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