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JAL To Launch NRT-BOS Next April With The B-787  
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20794 times:
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Starting on April 22, 2012, Japan Airlines will launch non-stop flights between NRT and BOS with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner. The service will initially operate 4x weekly, increasing to a daily service on June 1, 2012. AA will code-share with JL on this service.
http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201105/001803.html

137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20906 times:

This is great news for Boston and one of those routes IMHO that should have been up and running for sometime. I know UA when they looked to merge with US were also looking at the route. I wonder if they may go back to looking at it as well as a Star option now they have merged with CO?

User currently offlinesofianec From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 240 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20864 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):

That's really strange. I was under the impression an aircraft must fly for at least a year before it receives ETOPS clearance from Japan authorities. Am I missing something here?

---



A350WARP
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20769 times:
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Reservations for this new service will be available tomorrow at 10AM JST by Japan Airlines and later on by American Airlines:

Quote:
Customers can make bookings at JAL beginning May 28, 2011* (10am JST/ May 27, 9pm EST) and at American from the middle of June this year via their respective websites and call centers (see end of release).

http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201105/001803.html

Quotingual777uk (Reply 1):
This is great news for Boston and one of those routes IMHO that should have been up and running for sometime.

I agree, it is fantastic that JL is the first airline in the world to announce a new international route with the B-787 Dreamliner and open reservations for it with-in 24 hours! Let's hope that a NRT-MIA service is announced for next year as well! Congratulations JAL!

[Edited 2011-05-27 02:25:49]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20765 times:
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Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
I agree, it is fantastic that JL is the first airline in the world to announce a new international route with the B-787 Dreamliner!



Really? What about COs announcements many months ago for IAH-AKL and IAH-LOS, both new routes announced for the B-787 ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20713 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
What about COs announcements many months ago for IAH-AKL and IAH-LOS, both new routes announced for the B-787 ?

I was going to say, CO got that cherry!


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20708 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
Really? What about COs announcements many months ago for IAH-AKL and IAH-LOS, both new routes announced for the B-787 ?

Are those already available for purchase? Are the schedules available as yet? Will those routes be available for purchase with-in the next 24 hours?

[Edited 2011-05-27 02:22:37]

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20695 times:

Great news for JAL and AA.

And in the next 12-18 months, I have zero doubts we will also see Miami-Narita, Seattle-Narita and at least one of LAX-Osaka or LAX-Nagoya, if not both, announced. Of course, that assumes positive future forecasts in U.S.-Asia traffic.



a.
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20572 times:

Quoting sofianec (Reply 2):
receives ETOPS clearance from Japan authorities

So a new long haul plane must fly for a year before ETOPS?

Good news for JL/AA and Oneworld.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20504 times:
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JAL picks Boston as first 787 destination

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
I have zero doubts we will also see Miami-Narita

A NRT-MIA service will do extremely well; especially considering that MIA is the gateway to Latin America!

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
Good news for JL/AA and Oneworld.

Indeed, this is fantastic news for the oneworld alliance. It is very nice to see the oneworld alliance carriers opening brand new routes which will benefit other oneworld alliance carriers!


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20340 times:

Will jetblue easily be able to feed passengers onto this route if it has an AA codeshare? Jetblue is such a big player in the BOS market now it seems like JAL would appreciate some feed to make it work. Is that gonna be the case or are they just going after the o&d of Boston?

so the continental US markets with n/s service to Tokyo are:
SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SLC, DFW, IAH, ORD, DTW, MSP, ATL, JFK, EWR, IAD and now BOS

I wonder if MIA on JAL or PHL on ANA will be next? They seem like the cities with the most potential left. I would think MIA would have more draw than BOS any idea why they selected there? Is there a huge business o&d between the cities or something? MIA seems like it would have a higher number of premium fare paying passengers off a first thought, and it has so many more connection opportunities in MIA with AA. Anyone have any info on the o&d between tokyo and BOS/PHL/MIA.

[Edited 2011-05-27 03:36:01]

User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20252 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 10):
Will jetblue easily be able to feed passengers onto this route if it has an AA codeshare? Jetblue is such a big player in the BOS market now it seems like JAL would appreciate some feed to make it work. Is that gonna be the case or are they just going after the o&d of Boston?

The press release makes mention of a deal being negotiated between JAL and jetBlue for this:

Quote:
In addition to its relationship with American, JAL has also begun discussions to strengthen its U.S. network structure with JetBlue Airways, utilizing the carrier%u2019s hub operations in Boston to provide customers more options and smoother connections to and from major destinations in the East Coast.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20231 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 11):
The press release makes mention of a deal being negotiated between JAL and jetBlue for this:

That's fantastic news. Jetblue are starting to forge some nice relationships with Oneworld.


User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1613 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20192 times:

Congratulations to JAL, Boeing and BOS of course!   Finally the wheels are starting to turn and before you know it you'll be enjoying a flight on the Dreamliner, personally, I can't wait!!


Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20181 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 10):
Will jetblue easily be able to feed passengers onto this route if it has an AA codeshare?

It's not just an AA codeshare. AA and JAL are launching this route in venture. If the route loses $10M, then $5M of the loss is on AA, and $5M is on JAL. If it makes $10M, then the profit is split.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 10):
Jetblue is such a big player in the BOS market now it seems like JAL would appreciate some feed to make it work. Is that gonna be the case or are they just going after the o&d of Boston?

JAL and JetBlue will be partnering up; the PR mentions this. I suspect it will just be an interline, though.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 10):
MIA seems like it would have a higher number of premium fare paying passengers off a first thought, and it has so many more connection opportunities in MIA with AA. Anyone have any info on the o&d between tokyo and BOS/PHL/MIA.

JAN10 to DEC10, BOSNRT is much larger than MIANRT. But MIANRT and MCONRT combined is larger than BOSNRT; this is relevant because when tourists from Japan come halfway around the world to Florida, its typical for them to visit a combination of Miami and Orlando. Largest O&D market between the Pacific Rim and Florida is MIAMNL, which is not much smaller than BOSNRT, but its obviously very low-yielding.

BOSNRT is also a much stronger yielding market compared to MIANRT. The business traffic between Miami and Japan isn't strong; it is strong between Boston and Japan. MIA's top Asian business markets are HKG and TPE (thanks to banking and transportation/logistics). MIAHKG is actually easily one of the highest average fare U.S.-Asia city pairs, period.

PHLNRT is smaller than either. PHL's largest Pac Rim market is PVG.



a.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 20141 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
Quoting sofianec (Reply 2):
receives ETOPS clearance from Japan authorities

So a new long haul plane must fly for a year befo

I'd be surprised if NRT-BOS required ETOPS - its north east up over the Aleutians, over Northern Alaska, down over Canada and into BOS.

Anyone know?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 20082 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I'd be surprised if NRT-BOS required ETOPS - its north east up over the Aleutians, over Northern Alaska, down over Canada and into BOS.

It will need at least a 60 Min ETOPS rule if im looking at Great Circle Mapper Correctly. With 60 min there are not a lot of options on where it can go, there is more routes avail with a higher rating


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 20035 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
What about COs announcements many months ago for IAH-AKL and IAH-LOS, both new routes announced for the B-787 ?

That was prior to the last delay announced for the B787. LOS is now on a B777 and IAH - AKL IIRC is not on for sale, so yes JL will be the first to announce and sell tickets on the B787 destination.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 19919 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I'd be surprised if NRT-BOS required ETOPS - its north east up over the Aleutians, over Northern Alaska, down over Canada and into BOS.

It will need at least a 60 Min ETOPS rule if im looking at Great Circle Mapper Correctly. With 60 min there are not a lot of options on where it can go, there is more routes avail with a higher rating

I'd have thought the 787 would be 180 mins straight out of the box like the 777 was, and 240 mins would follow after a year. Certainly dont need 180 or 240 for NRT-BOS I'd have thought.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 19908 times:

That is freaking awesome!

Nice to see the joint AA-JAL U.S.-Japan network actually growing in a meaningful way post-ATI/JV, and hopefully there is more to come. This route makes immense sense - linking such a huge U.S. population/economic center (and really the population/economic center of an entire region) to Asia for the first time.

The first things that came to mind for me is what impact this will have on other competitors in the Boston-Asia market. If I remember correctly from past discussion, United was recognized as a leader there, connecting tons of traffic out of Boston to Asia, particularly over Chicago. I wonder how a new nonstop flight from Boston to Narita will shape the dynamics - is Tokyo/Japan Boston's largest Asia market? How does it stack up relative to the size of the local market from Boston to, say, Hong Kong, or Mainland China, or Korea?

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 1):
one of those routes IMHO that should have been up and running for sometime.

Agreed - I think Boston has long been capable of supporting some sort of flight to Asia. Indeed, in 1998 it got very close to getting an MD11 flight from AA. But, alas, I suppose it was waiting for a 787 to make the economics viable.

Quoting sofianec (Reply 2):
I was under the impression an aircraft must fly for at least a year before it receives ETOPS clearance from Japan authorities.

Didn't the 777 get ETOPS 180 from day one? I know it did in the U.S. Did it in Japan?

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
Let's hope that a NRT-MIA service is announced for next year as well!

  

As has been discussed, I hope that this is a prelude to larger growth for the joint AA-JAL network across the Pacific, with hopefully more to come. Perhaps the JAL 787 will provide a new, viable option for the partners to jointly enter new or already-competitive markets with a more economically competitive offering. I agree that, in addition to this, nonstop Seattle-Narita, Miami-Narita, and either/or Los Angeles-Osaka or Los Angeles-Nagoya would all be good to see.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 12):
Jetblue are starting to forge some nice relationships with Oneworld.

Hmmm ...

  


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8376 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19739 times:

Wow, this one came out of nowhere for me. I know there's been a lot of talk about BOS-Asia with the 787 and NRT was the unquestionable favorite but everyone always suggested either ANA or DL. JL was was definitely not on my list. This should be awesome.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 14):
JAN10 to DEC10, BOSNRT is much larger than MIANRT. But MIANRT and MCONRT combined is larger than BOSNRT; this is relevant because when tourists from Japan come halfway around the world to Florida, its typical for them to visit a combination of Miami and Orlando.

The same goes for BOS/NYC. A lot of Japanese tourists here in Boston taking a side trip from NYC.
I hope this is the begining of an Asian expansion from BOS. I don't expect *A and SkyTeam to allow AA/JL to have the monopoly on this route for very long.


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19732 times:

Maybe an uninformed question, but why is everybody so sure NRT-MIA would prove to be a great success? It's considerably shorter than other routes 777s are being used on today and if JAL saw such a big potential in that particular market, why wouldn't they have started it already? One stops via LAX and ORD add surprisingly little to the total travel distance and with DL's ATL-NRT most of the markets in that region are already being served.

You could argue that if DL (with virtually no SkyTeam partners on the other hand) can do it to ATL, JAL (with two major One World hubs on both sides) should easily be able to manage NRT-MIAs flights. But why, if the market is really that lucrative, has it not started yet? Theoretically, even AA's 772ER could do it.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19550 times:

What an announcement.

Boston is a large market to Asia and it's a good thing for that region to finally get non-stop service. According to Boston media over 380,000 people a year fly between Boston and Asia and Boston is the largest U.S. market without non-stop service to Asia.

I think this route will do great and will see a good amount of stimulation thanks to the non-stop flight. Considering you've always had to connect, people that would use PVD, BDL, MHT, PWM, etc. to connect via JFK, EWR, DTW, ORD, etc. will have a reason to use BOS instead.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19537 times:

Quoting something (Reply 21):
You could argue that if DL (with virtually no SkyTeam partners on the other hand) can do it to ATL, JAL (with two major One World hubs on both sides) should easily be able to manage NRT-MIAs flights. But why, if the market is really that lucrative, has it not started yet? Theoretically, even AA's 772ER could do it.

No way, no how. A 772 could never make MIANRT without block maybe 30-50 seats and carrying zero cargo. Range is only part of the story - its very southernly routing over the infamous headwinds in southern Alaska and the coast of the Pacific Rim - something that ATLNRT does not face - make it a no go.

NRTMIA isn't much of an issue, though.



a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19529 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
I hope this is the begining of an Asian expansion from BOS. I don't expect *A and SkyTeam to allow AA/JL to have the monopoly on this route for very long.

Perhaps, although I question if this market (Tokyo) can profitably support more than one daily flight. I think Boston could probably support another flight to Asia - probably Beijing or Shanghai - but another Tokyo flight? I don't know.

Quoting something (Reply 21):
Maybe an uninformed question, but why is everybody so sure NRT-MIA would prove to be a great success?

It would link together one of America's largest metro areas and most populous states - and one, in fact, that has a lot of global business and cultural connections - with the largest Asian gateway to the U.S. The Miami hub would offer unparalleled connectivity to Latin America that no other current U.S. gateway to Asia - including Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston or New York - can offer. On the Asia side, JAL's Narita hub offers connections to just about all the major markets of the Pacific Rim.

Quoting something (Reply 21):
It's considerably shorter than other routes 777s are being used on today and if JAL saw such a big potential in that particular market, why wouldn't they have started it already?

Technically, the 777 could do it - although not well. A 200ER would require weight penalties, if I'm not mistaken, and the 300ER is too large. The 787 is the perfect airplane for a market like that.


25 MAV88 : There has to be a good chance though that JL sends a 787 to MIA though right? They have how many on order? 35?
26 Post contains links sofianec : All Nippon Airways (same with JAL i presume) will be forced to restrict flights of the Boeing 787 to domestic and regional routes for 12-18 months aft
27 Post contains links gemuser : There is no such thing as 60 min ETOPS (although the GCM does call it that). Sixty minutes is the point where ETOPS cuts in, below that you don't nee
28 ChrisNH : Count me among the people who though ANA would be the carrier making this announcement. However, I and others thought a foreign flag-carrier would bre
29 MAV88 : I believe the BOS-NRT market is around 74,000 people a year. But that is sure to grow with the non-stop flight coming online.
30 Post contains links thenoflyzone : i get the headwinds in Alaska, but even at that, both ATL-NRT and MIA-NRT are similar routings if you ask me. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ATL-NRT%2C
31 peanuts : This is a great example of seeing an ATI/JV agreement in action. StarAlliance will probably respond, I don't think it will remain a monopoly for just
32 Post contains images MaverickM11 : IAHLOS has been selling for a long time. The plane has been changed however due to the delay; knowing Boeing and JL, I wouldn't be surprised if they
33 something : yet.. Hard for me to bring these arguments in line. Especially since KE can apparently fill an A388 on ICN-ATL, which should be a much smaller market
34 mogandoCI : That's only 202 PDEW ... even with a low density 787, you'll need to carry a huge chunk of the price sensitive bottom tier of that 74K to even reach
35 Post contains images commavia : Don't see why (but not surprised). It is a huge market, with a lot of demand and potential, but not enough to profitably fill a very low-density, pre
36 ScottB : This actually is not the first service between BOS and Asia; KE served BOS from SEL for several years in the 1990's (as a triangle routing along with
37 Post contains images commavia : Apologies - true. First nonstop flight to/from Asia, I believe, and the first of any kind in years.
38 WA707atMSP : I believe UA announced BOS-NRT nonstops in 1998, then cancelled the flight before it launched due to the Asian economic crisis.
39 something : If you expect people to take you seriously and you don't have any facts to convince them to do so, you should really tone down the condescension. Bei
40 SCL767 : That is correct. Maybe CO/UA or NZ will launch a service between IAH and AKL before they receive their B-787s. Well I hope your wrong on that one sin
41 MaverickM11 : This is the poster child for the 787. The 772 is probably too big for the route and has the wrong costs; the 787 has low enough costs to make it work
42 commavia : I really don't mind if you call me a clown - I've been called much worse here and elsewhere (just go search). My opinion - as I've stated - is that a
43 MAV88 : I think the route is going to see some solid stimulation with the non-stop flight. People that normally fly out of MHT, PWM, BDL and PVD will make th
44 DFWEagle : Yes, Tokyo is the largest Asian market from Boston. It accounts for approximately 20% of the total Boston-Asia market, which is the largest USA-Asia
45 mogandoCI : 2 segment path: 11509 mi NRT (35°45'55"N 140°23'08"E) MIA (25°47'43"N 80°17'24"W) 37.9° (NE) 7436 mi MIA (25°47'43"N 80°17'24"W) GRU (23°25'55
46 airbazar : Simple: HKG-NYC is a very high yield, business route whereas NRT-MIA is predominantly low yield traffic. This is just BOS-NRT. When you add New Engla
47 FSDan : Great to see this route finally happen, and BOS finally get some transpacific service!! I wonder if KE will also consider starting service to BOS in t
48 Post contains images MaverickM11 : GRUNRT is connected by anyone and everyone that serves both GRU and NRT, including EK, so there's little benefit to depending on that flow to prop up
49 Post contains images ASA : Awesome!!! Can't wait to fly this route ...
50 thenoflyzone : Wouldn't really call it transpacific. The plane will fly over the Arctic Ocean and Sea of Japan, touching the Pacific maybe for an hour or two before
51 airbazar : B6!
52 IrishAyes : That was unnecessarily haughty and sassy. Follow your own advice...you embarassed yourself by including nationality in an otherwise general aviation
53 fly2yyz : Can I just ask...what will drive this route???
54 jonathanxxxx : Well, theres also all the B6 destinations your forgettig. To my knowledge it can't. I would guess that if the NRT flight is timed well enough people
55 mogandoCI : are these not currently served via DFW ? MIA-NRT needs to work primarily via O&D, and a few cities entirely unique to MIA not duplicated by IAH/D
56 LAXdude1023 : No, DFW doesnt serve those places. I think if AA/JL goes for the MIA-NRT route (which in my opinion is an excellent 787 route), they would push the m
57 seabosdca : This is not true. 77E equipment regularly flies longer routes than MIA-NRT. And if it is true, then a 787-8 won't be able to fly the route either. Th
58 jonathanxxxx : Actually no, they are not just MIA. The winds over the pacific play a role in the distance too. Absolutely.
59 thenoflyzone : a 77E can do it, just not profitably. I'm having a look at the range vs. payload chart for the 77E, and it aint that bad...assume an ESAD of 7,000nm
60 FSDan : True enough. I'll rephrase: it's good to see BOS finally get a westbound longhaul flight!
61 BoeingGuy : As would a return of SJC-NRT, which at one time did very well from what I understand.
62 mah4546 : Thin by itself, but you can't ignore MCONRT when looking at the market. Much MIANRT traffic leaks to MCONRT, which is not thin. Albeit the traffic th
63 SCL767 : JAL will also offer a non-stop B-787-8 service between TYO and SIN by Q4.
64 MaverickM11 : Oh yeah. That. I'm really not sure about that, but ignoring the clunky relationship, that gains AA WAS/BUF/CLT/more NYC/PIT/RIC, most if not all serv
65 Post contains images something : Thank you sir! Your hard facts and numbers are more than greatly appreciated as always
66 united319 : Could'nt a 777 make it quite easily? IIRC NRT-IAD/JFK fly over the pole and down the eastern seaboard. So if flown that route, NRT-BOS would be shorte
67 DFWEagle : Ah yes, my mistake, I should have said I was only talking about East Asian cities and not including Middle East or India etc. I was not talking about
68 thenoflyzone : As mentioned above, BOS-NRT was identified as a potential 787 route since the get-go, since there is not enough demand to justify a daily 777 on the
69 Viscount724 : But MIA-NRT is about 550 nm shorter than EWR-HKG where CO has been using the 772 for years. It's also slightly shorter than AA's ORD-DEL 772 route. M
70 jfklganyc : "Oh yeah. That. I'm really not sure about that, but ignoring the clunky relationship, that gains AA WAS/BUF/CLT/more NYC/PIT/RIC, most if not all serv
71 MaverickM11 : How? They're 4 hours apart? MCONRT is a bigger market for sure, but also very cheap.
72 Post contains links RobertS975 : BOS-NRT should not have any ETOPS issies: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-nrt The route has land under it almost the entire way. And suitable airport
73 luckyone : The Pratt & Whitney powered variants were the only ones to get ETOPS out of the box. The GE and RR variants took a bit longer. IIRC correctly (it
74 mah4546 : Yes, but that doesn't change my point. ORDDEL is trans-polar. EWRHKG is near trans-polar. They don't face insane southern Pacific headwinds. MIANRT o
75 747400sp : Now that what I am talking about! I have ,for a long time, believe that the B-787 was a great a/c for the NRT-BOS route. Sadly, I was hoping that it w
76 Post contains images seabosdca : Why should MIA-NRT face "insane southern Pacific headwinds?" I still don't understand why a 77E flying MIA-NRT, at ~7000-7200 nm ESAD, wouldn't be ab
77 BOStonsox : This is something I have waited a long time to see! We were supposed to get this route on AA in 1999 but they cancelled it for some reason. BOS will d
78 tharanga : When I saw this news, i thought of you, because you were always talking about the 787 making this particular route a reality. Still, as with all thin
79 jfk777 : AA flies to India eastward and the flight back from Dehli is also eastward, so it goes around the world with no headwinds.
80 thenoflyzone : You need at least ETOPS 120 to fly the optimal BOS-NRT routing. As gemuser said in reply 27, there is a small area over the western side of Hudson's
81 mah4546 : Sorry, I mean over southern Alaska, easily some of the worst headwinds anywhere on the planet. Because it wouldn't. Plain and simple. It would take a
82 BOStonsox : I was in Seattle just over a month ago and saw the 787, and hopefully when April comes again I will only have to go to BOS to see it. But you're righ
83 Post contains images MCOGVADCA : Do I think NRT-MIA could work? Yes. Do I think it will be an automatic success? Absolutely not. For reasons alluded to above, Miami is no longer the s
84 Post contains images BOStonsox : Okay Boston a.netters, what are you more excited about? Us getting the nonstop to NRT, or the Bruins going to the Stanley Cup for the first time since
85 flyby519 : I'd pay an extra $200 just to avoid those congested hubs like ATL/EWR/JFK
86 MileHighOffice : The 787 is going to open up a lot of neat new routes that previous size/range and economics did not allow. Really could be a hub buster and game chang
87 LAXDESI : It is being reported on flyertalk that the 788 on NRT-BOS will have 18 J seats in three rows. The total no. of seats in economy has not been loaded in
88 SCL767 : 30 J seats in five rows and 207 Y seats in 30 rows. Row 45 is the exit row, so there are only 4 exit row seats in Y.
89 Post contains images AA767400 : You've got to be kidding me, seriously? And you call someone else condescending. Back to the topic, This is an interesting route, since I would have
90 workhorse : Really? Meaning that there's only 7 seats per row? That's pretty generous for a 787!
91 Post contains links SCL767 : The seating configuration is just like the seating configuration on the B-767. JL B-787-8 configuration: http://jal-pak.blogspot.com/2011/05/...-seat
92 Post contains images workhorse : Wow! That looks like a real "Luxury Liner" to me!
93 LFutia : When I last flew the route in 2006 we went eastward and return was westward, Leo/ORD
94 AussieItaliano : Well, for that matter, those of us here on the U.S. West Coast don't have any transatlantic non-stops. Almost all flights go over Canada and Greenlan
95 ChrisNH : Well, I'm thrilled at both! I'm reminded of AA's attempt at launching MD-11 service to Narita in the 1990s, and I even think they went so far as to s
96 DFWEagle : JAL is scheduled to take delivery of its first 5 Boeing 787-8s before 31st March 2012, so they should have at least that many by the time the new NRT-
97 airbazar : Plus all the interline passengers. As pointed out above, BOS actually makes for a pretty decent connecting airport between Asia and the Eastern US an
98 avek00 : I'll bet most any amount of money that this flight: a) never sees the light of actual service, or b) would be canned within 6 months if it did in fact
99 sbworcs : I am sure that JL / AA have done their sums and checks thoroughly and believe that this one can work. Are there certain factors that you believe that
100 DTWLAX : and after DTW. DTW-Japan is also larger than BOS-Japan
101 DFWEagle : The data I was referring to is a year old (MIDT O&D data year ended Dec 2009), so things may have changed, but it shows the Detroit-Tokyo market
102 Prinair : I see a lot of airline daydream CEOs and route planners here bickering over whether a 777-200ER or 777-300ER or 787 would be the best aircraft for the
103 mah4546 : It would be flown in it's most direct routing which is nowhere near transpolar. MIANRT isn't premium heavy, but there is no lack of Miami-Asia premiu
104 LAXdude1023 : Most of the Detroit-Japan market is to Nagoya vs. Tokyo. That may be the descrepancy.
105 cslusarc : I'd like to applaud JL and its JV partner AA for launching this four times weekly route. I just checked the AA PDF Schedule dated May 7th and it says
106 LAXDESI : At still air distance of nearly 6,000 nm distance, it would burn nearly $60,000 in fuel. Assuming fuel cost at 1/3rd of overall cost, the cost per se
107 ATLflyer : Is this really correct or have they just not updated the map on the website? Seven-abreast seems crazy when we have been debating 8 or 9 for so long.
108 ha763 : Just not updated.
109 LAXDESI : 788 is about 6 feet longer than 763, and as per SeatGuru JAL 763s have 30 J seats at 45-49" pitch and 207 Y seats at 31-33" pitch. Perhaps the extra
110 Prinair : I am aware of that, I was merely sugesting that the 77L could be the perfect aircraft at this time for a MIA-NRT flight.
111 carpethead : I wonder what will AA/JL do if the 787s are not delivered in a timely manner? (My personnal opinion is that the route will not be flown in Summer 2012
112 Post contains links airbazar : It's usually the most economic when you factor winds and fuel burn. A near transpolar route (above the Arctic Circle), MIA-NRT only adds about 250-30
113 ChrisNH : If this were the very real probability you say it is, why would JAL put the route on sale now rather than wait until a later date?
114 Post contains links Viscount724 : That's far from true. Many west coast-Europe flights, especially eastbound, take much more southerly routings depending on the location of the jetstr
115 carpethead : I'd like to ask the JAL execs the same thing. I can see it now, the 787 has many minor entry service problems and the Ministry of Transport does not
116 gemuser : So they operate it non-ETOPS, The Great Circle routing NRT-overheadYWG-BOS is 6014 nm v 5823 nm a difference of 191 nm (3.3%), keeps it totally non E
117 ChrisNH : Outstanding, clear, and sensible. Great reply. Here's another question: Is this a two-crew flight? And if so, are there berths for the off-duty membe
118 carpethead : No it cannot. Most carriers need minimium ETOPS 180 to operate Trans-Pacific. ETOPS 207 would be best. With ETOPS 207, you don't need any of the Russ
119 Post contains links gemuser : What? Not according to: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=nrt-bos%2C+nrt-ywg-bos&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=60 Now, of course, this is a generalisation an
120 Post contains links airbazar : As I posted in reply 112, TPAC flights hardly ever follow the GC route. Depending on how the winds are blowing they would be losing a ton of money by
121 bobnwa : ]Just curiously, who would even book this flight almost one year ahead?[/quote] There quit a few entities who book a year in advance, including but no
122 gemuser : True, of course, but irrelevant to this discussion, IMHO. The point is that it CAN be done non ETOPS, of course there are real world factors that may
123 ScottB : That might be an appealing scenario to the passenger, but it isn't necessarily attractive to the airlines operating the flights via BOS -- taking a $
124 seabosdca : Not that people really know they can walk at all, but the walk from C to E at BOS is by far the easiest, least painful walk at the airport. It's real
125 sankaps : Quick question on MIDT data: Does it include all channels, or only those pax sold via agencies? I think I heard somewhere that MIDT excluded certain
126 BOStonsox : Terminals C and E are connected, both airside and landside. You just can't get from the B6 side of C to the international gates. That would involve a
127 mah4546 : "Online O&D" figures exclude certain channels; "True O&D" does not. MIDT calculates both.
128 sankaps : Thanks. How do they access direct sales data from the various airlines? Are these self-reported?
129 airbazar : In this case it is better for the airline because it's not the same airline operating the flight via BOS (JL is outsourcing the domestic segment to a
130 ScottB : Incentives don't last forever, and a $200 revenue deficit (a yield deficit of roughly 2 cents/mile if we're talking round-trip) is quite meaningful.
131 Post contains links airbazar : The incentives are for 2 years, more than enough time for JL/AA/B6 to beef up the market. http://www.boston.com/travel/blog/2008/02/massport_seeks.ht
132 ScottB : It's not a new wing. As far I know, it's just a renovation of the old Terminal D gate areas (gates 1C/1D/1E). There was a security checkpoint in the
133 BOStonsox : I thought that the old Terminal D was now rebranded as part of Terminal C and those gates were open, albeit separated. According to the interactive ma
134 Post contains links airbazar : It was more than a renovation. The gates themseves were maintained as they were but the passenger area was expanded into the old terminal D. You can
135 Viscount724 : What source does MIDT use for carriers' own sales through their websites etc, which must be a substantial proportion of total traffic now for virtual
136 ScottB : Yes, it is called a "sidewalk." Just like there is a walkway between Park Street and Government Center. The former Terminal D is already connected to
137 Post contains links BOStonsox : I saw what appeared to be a hallway leading to it when I was there a year ago. And why did you make the analogy with the subway? If you meant Downtow
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