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Flights To Dangerous Destinations  
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2069 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6923 times:

I was just wondering something, living in the middle east. When is it considered too dangerous to continue flying to a certain destination?

I live in the middle east now. Emirates is still flying to Sanaa, Yemen, SAH. There is no flight today, but it operated yesterday and is still scheduled for tomorrow. It is a morning flight to SAH, so it must turn around and return with no crew layover.

I was reading that it is now so dangerous in the capital that residents are told to stay indoors and that its on the brink of civil tribal war. Demonstrations and shootings are now commonplace there. It is disintegrating it appears. Westerners are told to leave the country.

I am amazed it's still operating..When are conditions considered too extreme to operate? Who has the final say? This is an interesting topic I think.

Obviously EK stopped flying to Tripoli, TIP.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1640 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6746 times:

There are security teams that asses the situation on a daily basis to see if its still feasible to operate flights. Most times (as was the case with Cairo) service will be dramatically reduced to a. minimize exposure and b. to reconcile supply with demand. Working as cabin crew with EK I have never felt that the airline has comprised on the safety and security of their passengers and crew, and fully trust that if the airline is continuing to fly to Sanaa, it's because it remains safe enough for us fly there (but as you pointed out, we do not layover there). I'd say the airline tries its best to avoid inconveniencing passengers by at least maintaining reduced services or changing around operational needs to keep the flight going - with the Tunis flight, when the situation in the city flared up, we started making a stop in Tripoli before the situation blew up there (I think it was TIP - I never did the flight myself during that period) to ensure that crew didn't layover in Tunisia. The same with when the security situation in Colombo deteriorated a few years back - the airline tagged on Male so crew could layover there.

On top of this we have additional security restrictions on select destinations that the airline flies to and that we layover at based on the assessment of Emirates security teams.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlinehal9213 From Germany, joined May 2009, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6717 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Thread starter):
Westerners are told to leave the country.
I am amazed it's still operating..

Well, how would thousands of people leave the country, if no airline operated out of it ?
Seriously, I heard rumors, that in Egypt, at that time, the flights to Cairo were empty, but out of Cairo packed full. This totally justifies the route, doesnt it? I see no safety hazard, when crew has no layover and stays in the plane.
Btw, the Cairo-story was about EK, too.


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 2):
I see no safety hazard, when crew has no layover and stays in the plane.
Btw, the Cairo-story was about EK, too.

There certainly is a hazhard....if a country's govt is overthrown, airports and borders are sealed immediately....planes can be stuck for days or weeks till the new persons in control start relaxing things......this has happened many times in the past in different places....

Also, fighting can easily move out on to the apron area of airports....Sri Lanka is a good example....I recall at one time, the Tamil tigers bombed the main airport at Colombo and quite a few Sri Lankan Airlines planes were damaged/destroyed....


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

I remember flying out of Brazzaville on an Air France in 92 when they informed us there would be a stop in Kinshasa. It was right in the middle of one of Zaire's revolutions of the month.
Everybody had thought they were going straight to Geneva and nobody was entirely happy with the decision.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6070 times:
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Dangerous countries still have to function and international airports are secure by that countries military and police. International flights are economic links vital to those country. Colombia is such a conutry whose airports were and are vital to economic growth. South Africa under apartheid was too, can you imagine in the ANC had successfully closed the Cape Town and J'berg airports ?

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Dangerous countries still have to function and international airports are secure by that countries military and police. International flights are economic links vital to those country. Colombia is such a conutry whose airports were and are vital to economic growth. South Africa under apartheid was too, can you imagine in the ANC had successfully closed the Cape Town and J'berg airports ?

Not always true. Protestors closed down Bangkok airport for days demanding that the prime minister resigned 3 years ago.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

I remember when Fiji used to have military coups about once a year. It rarely affected flights for more than a day or so, if that.

I can however be a borderline call at times. Remember the BA 747-200 that landed at KWI in 1990 for an intermediate stop en route to MAA and KUL. It landed just as the Iraqis were invading KWI. Passengers were taken hostage, one was killed (a member of the Kuwaiti royal family I believe) and the aircraft was destroyed.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2069 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Dangerous countries still have to function and international airports are secure by that countries military and police. International flights are economic links vital to those country. Colombia is such a conutry whose airports were and are vital to economic growth. South Africa under apartheid was too, can you imagine in the ANC had successfully closed the Cape Town and J'berg airports

I went to BOG in the 90's, and that was a different situation. There things were just tense. I never felt in danger travelling around the country to major cities.

I was referring to situations like the one in Yemen and even Syria right now where there is open violence in major cities.

I was wondering at one point is unsafe too unsafe and how is this measured objectively, and what steps can be taken.


User currently offlineRJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Airline's insurers have a lot to say whether they are allowed to fly to such hot spots. Insurers review the security situation on an ongoing basis and charge hefty additional premiums per flight basis (with all flights being turnaround - they usually give a maximum of four hours on ground) or inform the airline that a certain country has been excluded from the geographical area of operation under their policy and thus no coverage will be provided. The coverage once provided will be subject to all proper permits being obtained prior to flgiht.


Chance favors the prepared mind
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3884 times:
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Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Dangerous countries still have to function and international airports are secure by that countries military and police. International flights are economic links vital to those country. Colombia is such a conutry whose airports were and are vital to economic growth. South Africa under apartheid was too, can you imagine in the ANC had successfully closed the Cape Town and J'berg airports ?

Not always true. Protestors closed down Bangkok airport for days demanding that the prime minister resigned 3 years ago.

Roseflyer,

You are comapring 2 dangerous but very different situations. Thailand is generally a safe place, it just wasn't when you were there. Thailand doesn't have guerillas trying to separate the country into two. Colombia has had guerillas for decades and drug cartels fueling them and kidnapping people. Colombia's violence is well documented, tourists do not go to Colombia, expatriate colombians do & Thai gets many tourists. You can't compare the two, Colombia's terrorits should be called "AL QUEDA SOUTH". Colombians terrorists have bombed several Avianca planes.


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
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The other major issue that affected flights to/from CAI was the fact that the government had shut down cell phone service as well as most internet service. This made a variety of routine tasks needed for running airline flights very difficult or impossible ranging from crew ground communications with dispatch, flight plan filing, air traffic control issues, and mundane tasks like checking in passengers, running credit cards etc.

User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering something, living in the middle east. When is it considered too dangerous to continue flying to a certain destination?

When you try to book a 74SP ticket ARN-DAM on RB, only to receive a warning from your local embassy like this one

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...try/middle-east-north-africa/syria



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinegrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 456 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Does any airline impose restrictions on pax in countries during dangerous situations such as no check in baggage for security reasons and to enable quicker turnaround times.

Then there is other things such as how much fuel does the airport have and I would say catering would be cut back. Slightly different but I remember back in March a few airlines didn't have heir crews stay overnight in Japan after the earthquake and had stopovers in other parts of Asia, I know it was a different situation but similar measures were taken that would happen to a dangerous country.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 3):
Also, fighting can easily move out on to the apron area of airports....Sri Lanka is a good example...

An A340 lost as a result of this

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010724-2

Grimey


User currently offlinejedyul From Saudi Arabia, joined Apr 2011, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3221 times:

I recall watching a documentary on an Air France flight that was hijacked in Algeria in the 90s. I believe it was AF 8969, the flight attendant mentioned that operating that route was done on a voluntary basis even though Algeria was in a state of civil war. Though I wonder if some airlines offer extra pay as an incentive for going on dangerous routes.

User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2069 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3102 times:

JFK777, actually i was a tourist in Colombia. It was an interesting experience.

Very interesting responses. Thank you.

I am wondering how much longer SAH will be handling flights. Things are going badly there at the moment. Too bad... I was wanting to visit old town Sanaa


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