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DL JFK-Europe/Mid East Cancellations  
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 5
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 19063 times:

Seems like this now warrants its own thread as the Euro/Mid East routes being axed out of JFK in September are pretty substantial.

So far:

CAI
AMM
TXL
ARN
CPH

What else? Permanant or temporary?

98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 19043 times:

Since when was TXL axed? Also, ARN and CPH may just be seasonal cuts...


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18979 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
Permanant or temporary?

The million dollar question. Under their ATI, DL/AF/KL are cutting 7%-9% capacity across the Atlantic YOY from 2010, which is pretty substantial in my opinion. My bet is that these are permanent cuts, and that the JV will use the benefits it is accorded under ATI to connect those passengers out of the US through the AMS and CDG hubs.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17491 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18965 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
What else?

PHLCDG from what I can tell



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineflyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18923 times:

MEM-AMS also  

sad


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18895 times:

ATL - SVO seems to be dropped too.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18872 times:

Also if the slot swap does go through I would expect some reduction in capacity on the 1,500 mile domestic routes from JFK. Some of those routes really don't make sense from JFK if redundant service is offered from LGA. The domestic network for DL from JFK within the 1,500 miles from JFK will probably need to be reworked, all they need is to connect to the international banks. The O&d stuff is going to go to LGA.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18765 times:

So far I believe at least these routes are being seasonally suspended:

JFK-CAI
JFK-AMM
JFK-TXL
JFK-CPH
JFK-ARN
ATL-SVO
PHL-CDG
MEM-AMS

I tend to think MEM-AMS and PHL-CDG are permanent cuts

[Edited 2011-05-27 14:39:14]

User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18737 times:

Are they going to keep BOS-LHR at 2x daily for the winter? Also, what about JFK-MAN and JFK-ZRH?


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18566 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 8):
Are they going to keep BOS-LHR at 2x daily for the winter?

I believe they have to keep the slots, these slots were provided by BA/AA as part of the concessions for ATI and earmarked specifically for BOS-LHR.


User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18439 times:

Will Delta return to Berlin when BBI is going full strength and TXL is closed in 2012?

I thought that the JFK-TXL route was was doing rather well connecting NY with the capital of Germany. Hopefully DELTA will have wide-body service JFK-FRA and better in-flight service to compete with LH and its A380..


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18389 times:

Kiev also gets the axe this summer.
DL Suspends Kiev (by burnsie28 May 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18388 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 5):
ATL - SVO seems to be dropped too.

This route has been season for the last year or two.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 18118 times:

Quoting flyyul (Reply 4):
MEM-AMS also
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
I tend to think MEM-AMS and PHL-CDG are permanent cuts

Pretty sure MEM-AMS is only being reduced to 4x weekly, not cut altogether.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
JFK-TXL
JFK-CPH
JFK-ARN
ATL-SVO
PHL-CDG

All of these and JFK-MAN are supposed to be seasonal cuts and return next spring.

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 8):
Are they going to keep BOS-LHR at 2x daily for the winter?
Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 9):
I believe they have to keep the slots, these slots were provided by BA/AA as part of the concessions for ATI and earmarked specifically for BOS-LHR.

If BOS-LHR is bleeding money I don't think they will hesistate to suspend one of the two flights.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 18067 times:

It is sad to see so many routes cut. I have empathy for all the proud DL employees who hate to see what has been built up as a nice operation torn down.

I assume most of these flights are operated by 767 or other wide-body aircraft. Any idea where these planes will be re-deployed.

Maybe the JFK-AMM route could work for AA as it would connect oneworld hubs. AA seems to have that strategy with the new flights that have been announced this year.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 18049 times:

According to below article the PDX-AMS flight is at risk.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...elta_remains_bullish_on_pdx-j.html



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17971 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
PHLCDG from what I can tell

That route used to be operated by Air France, then it was taken over by Delta and now it gets the axe..?  



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17916 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
If BOS-LHR is bleeding money I don't think they will hesistate to suspend one of the two flights.

But if it reduces frequency, even just temporarily, I believe it will have to return the slot to AA/BA/IB. I think DL will reduce both to a 752 first (the late departure is already becoming a 752 in a few days).



a.
User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17794 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):

If BOS-LHR is bleeding money I don't think they will hesistate to suspend one of the two flights.

While I don't have any official figures, I can provide some anecdotal evidence of the flight's performance. I flew MCO-BOS-LHR last month on DL (the late flight) for a paltry 450 USD. The plane was virtually empty. Interestingly enough, the gate agent informed me that a significant number of passengers on BOS-LHR are MCO transfers. (Take "significant" with a grain of salt, as this sort of information is notoriously unreliable, but this was definitely the case on my flight).



12 months:pvg hkg bkk doh mxp nce zrh iah lhr gva iad clt lax nrt sin mnl ceb del jai gay vns szx zuh mfm icn can
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17755 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
But if it reduces frequency, even just temporarily, I believe it will have to return the slot to AA/BA/IB. I think DL will reduce both to a 752 first (the late departure is already becoming a 752 in a few days).

I still wouldn't be surprised to see them give a slot back.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17491 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17622 times:

Quoting MCOGVADCA (Reply 18):
Interestingly enough, the gate agent informed me that a significant number of passengers on BOS-LHR are MCO transfers

Remember that RJ arriving in JFK from BOS full of Brits that was flipped around by the AF 380? Ever wonder why an RJ flying BOSJFK was full of Brits? I'm just sayin'....  



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinem404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17362 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

When is the MEM-AMS flt cut date, either the lower frequency or termination? I wonder if KL will pick up where DL is cutting there.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineLambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2076 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17319 times:

Quoting m404 (Reply 21):
When is the MEM-AMS flt cut date, either the lower frequency or termination? I wonder if KL will pick up where DL is cutting there.

Ugh. That's too bad for Memphis. They really treat that route as a feather in their cap and it will be a bit of a blow to civic pride once their non-stop link to Europe is severed.

If DL is cutting it KL isn't coming into rescue it, either.


User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17304 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
Remember that RJ arriving in JFK from BOS full of Brits that was flipped around by the AF 380? Ever wonder why an RJ flying BOSJFK was full of Brits? I'm just sayin'....

Hahahaha...good point!



12 months:pvg hkg bkk doh mxp nce zrh iah lhr gva iad clt lax nrt sin mnl ceb del jai gay vns szx zuh mfm icn can
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17141 times:

Quoting m404 (Reply 21):
When is the MEM-AMS flt cut date, either the lower frequency or termination? I wonder if KL will pick up where DL is cutting there.

Wow this one is indeed a shame, more so than the other cuts as this is MEM's only TATL link, but I honestly think I saw this one coming. Memphis definitely never was the strongest economically among DL's hubs and with the large cuts announced it seemed inevitable. I hope CVG-CDG will remain safe, as of now it looks like it continues daily.


25 FSDan : I think Cincinnati has a lot more corporate demand to Europe than Memphis does. That should help to guarantee the CVG-CDG flight.
26 catiii : I understand the spirit of what you're saying, but it's hardly being "torn down." It's a handful of routes, not the entire operation. These same prou
27 premobrimo : MEM-AMS Frequency reduction, NOT suspended ATL-SVO, JFK-ARN, JFK-CPH, JFK-MAN, JFK-TXL, PHL-CDG ----- All seasonally suspended
28 flyguy89 : This is just a blunder. How well was AF doing on the route before DL took it over because from what it seems, DL just ran this route into the ground
29 PHX Flyer : Air Berlin started JFK-TXL on May 1st. As a bottom feeder, they'll ruin yields, I'm sure. It may still work out during peak travel season, but most c
30 Post contains images slcdeltarumd11 : Its so sad to see MEM-AMS reduced i think that route is clining to dear life. I am afraid that one is destined to be terminated its just a when now De
31 hypercott : It's a shame to see JFK-TXL go. They have been flying this route for more than 6 years and the flight is usually packed, but the yield is probably low
32 EIRules : As well as these cuts, DL has increased frequencies on some of its transatlantic routes ex JFK. DUB has gotten a second flight on some days, though I
33 Skyteam10001 : I seem to remember that, along with ORD, PHL was one of the worst performer of AF's North American network, and was a route where AF had trouble maki
34 Post contains images B747forever : That is good to hear. I should be able to survive the winter without the DL 752
35 skymiler : I did BOS LHR last week and it was PACKED -- both classes, both ways! Speaking with a DL agent, they seemed to feel that except for the odd day the l
36 CALPSAFltSkeds : Interesting to see that now service is being cut for a number of reasons. But, just a couple of years ago on Anet lot's of DL fanboys were complaining
37 klwright69 : I doubt it. It would only work in the summer. RJ has AMM covered. I doubt there is enough traffic to go around. AA codeshare with EY also sends a lot
38 fun2fly : Not to mention the revamped UA domestic 763's, 5 788's and the 19 new 739ers freeing up PMCO 752's. Point is, we might be seeing an opportunity to sh
39 Navigator : I think Delta should be happy if they one day come even close to Lufthansas service onboard. My own experience is that Lufthansa is miles ahead in th
40 BoeingGuy : It used to be a 777 route.
41 mah4546 : Loads are terrible, especially on the late departure. Packed flights are not typical, and I hear its filling with a lot of MCO and JFK connections. I
42 usdcaguy : These destinations are big for tourism, but there is surprisingly little corporate travel between these places and the US. Still, it's a little sad t
43 MCOGVADCA : Were you on the late flight? Loads have been so terrible, a few times they've actually canceled flights and re-booked passengers the next day. Now, I
44 bobnwa : If DL cuts a trans-atlantic flight,AF/KL , the AF/KL have already made cuts,since they are part of the joint venture. It is basically a committee of
45 SESGDL : Numbers please? I know DL does terribly on any route pair that's operated alongside AA, but it would be nice to have more than "loads are terrible."
46 mah4546 : It's not an opinion. The loads in April were consistently sub-50% on the late evening departure; not much better on the earlier departure. One flight
47 ualcsr : How's MIA-LHR working out?
48 mah4546 : It has been doing well load-wise. It was consistently full during the spring break period in both cabins. A lot of people thought MIALHR was going to
49 TOMMY767 : Despite all this, Newark to Amsterdam survives on 763 equipment. I recall a few years back that many thought this route wouldn't survive.
50 Humberside : Surely that survives because of KLM - they will want to be able to offer both EWR and JFK, just as BA/VS/AF/LH/LX/LO do. EWR probably has more value
51 flyguy1 : Delta is building a new terminal at JFK, they arent doing this to surrender NYC to UA/CO.
52 washingtonian : Do you know something we don't know?
53 STT757 : Actually they're not building a new terminal, they're moving into an expanded T-4 where they will occupy the West concourse. They will continue to op
54 Post contains images flyguy1 : I guess new facilities would be a better choice of words
55 commavia : Interesting. If true, I think this raises - or, should I say, reaffirms - questions that many of us had when these flights were announced. On Boston-
56 CALPSAFltSkeds : Why is DL running this MIA-LHR flight while flying a single operation out of LGW to ATL with similar times? And no service to CVG and SLC. How about
57 jfklganyc : " Quoting STT757 (Reply 53): See my post above, no new Terminal. I guess new facilities would be a better choice of words " Honestly guys, let's not s
58 NYCAdvantage : Delta and many others including a few from *A in the US. Delta's business model philosophy is not kind of strange cutting what ever route they may sm
59 slcdeltarumd11 : Last i checked Delta was continuing to fly 2x daily even after the summer on BOS-LHR. I would think that is a possible slim down? Once a day still has
60 laca773 : I bet we'll see SLC-AMS before we see SLC-LHR or LGW. Back on topic, I see JFK-BUD continuing on as seasonal versus getting the axe altogether.
61 flyguy89 : This is a fair point, and while I believe both could support service to LHR seasonally at the least, it is my understanding (and somebody correct me
62 fun2fly : You can say what you want, but these cuts are significant and have set back DL in NYC. DL, to your point, may choose to focus on other areas of the w
63 DFWEagle : Those Heathrow slots can only be used for MIA-LHR for an initial two-year period. When AA and BA were granted permission for their joint venture, the
64 mah4546 : I don't believe that is the case. It is only if, after two years, no airline applied for the slots, then airlines could apply for one-stop, same plan
65 seabosdca : No, it's not within range at all westbound. The 767 is the smallest aircraft DL or its JV partners have that is capable of operating the route.
66 FlyPNS1 : Loads may be good, but yields stink. DL is practically giving the seats away. With less than 2 weeks advance purchase, you can find tickets that are
67 DFWEagle : I’m pretty certain that DL is entitled to move the flight to operate via another city after the initial two-year period. Those slots are no good be
68 BRJ : I connected through CVG back in 2002 or 2003, and there was a DL 777 flight to CDG, and then shortly after it's departure, an AF 340 landed and depar
69 NYCAdvantage : No one has said is great for DL, and for sure AA, UA may have their own plans, but sometimes you have to cut your loses and run, UA was ran out of in
70 Post contains images commavia : As much as Delta would like - in an ideal world - to grow their overall franchise (and that of SkyTeam) in the London market, I believe that, if give
71 flyguy89 : DL operated CVG-AMS on a 757 which is only 13 miles shorter than CVG-CDG, so I can't so how they couldn't do CVG-CDG on a 757 if they wanted.
72 cokepopper : We are hearing 11 transatlantic flights. Not sure of 5. Can anyone fill in the blanks? JFK-ARN JFK-CPH JFK-MAN JFK-TXL MEM-AMS ? PHL-CDG?
73 HVNandrew : Really? DL operated a 752 on CVG-AMS one summer, and that's virtually the same distance as CVG-CDG - the AMS route is only 13 miles shorter according
74 FSDan : JFK-KBP ATL-ATH JFK-CAI JFK-AMM And someone in another thread said that DL has only requested to fly one of the BOS-LHR flights for the winter season
75 Post contains images BoeingGuy : I also took the CDG-CVG 777 flight in 2005 (as part of a BOM-SEA routing). The AF A340 left CDG just moments after us, but arrived in CVG almost an o
76 STT757 : JFK- Cairo, Amman, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Malaga, Valencia, Kiev[Edited 2011-05-31 08:54:38]
77 skipness1E : It's good to suport your local market but secondary hubs into London don't have a great track record. NW launched then scrapped SEA-LHR DL used to op
78 cokepopper : Malaga valencia and Kiev are already seasonal Also don't believe CAI and AMM are part of the 11 as those cities were already announced.
79 FSDan : JFK-KBP is ending before the peak summer season, though. Same with ATL-ATH.
80 seabosdca : Only in the summer, and then probably with some weight restrictions. It was operated with what is now the 75A, a lightweight, low-density configurati
81 skipness1E : Does this mean that they will be re-deploying B767s or parking some. I only as I need to see N173DN which was repainted for a return to service out of
82 mah4546 : Then why isn't there room for Delta in MIALHR - which is a larger local market, has less capacity, and higher average fares than BOSLHR? And a Delta
83 flyguy89 : In any case, wouldn't summer be the most difficult time for a 757 flight of this length to operate? Additionally CVG-AMS never had any performance is
84 commavia : I'm not necessarily saying there isn't. I just don't know if the route will be sustainable if they're filling it with low fare connections from Orlan
85 mah4546 : Think you might be reading too much into that. MCO and TPA are helping, but its still largely local traffic. It can fill with local traffic - Delta i
86 slcdeltarumd11 : The latest OAG thread says that BOS-LHR is suppose to be cut to 1x daily. WIll that slot be lost or can Delta move it somewhere else?
87 jfklganyc : Wow! Another one gone! JFK-KEF. Talk about a bloodbath! What's the next route to fall?
88 FSDan : Is it gone before the end of the summer? Or is it just going to end in late August/early September like all the other seasonal routes?
89 PIEAvantiP180 : It ends in the first week of September. I think last flight is either on the 4th or 5th.
90 FSDan : Well that's no surprise then. I don't think it was ever planned to be year-round...
91 laca773 : If there ever was a chance MCO-LHR could operate profitably and fill the front cabin with more than just upgrades, this is one route I feel DL would
92 catiii : My sense of KEF was that it was launched to hurt Icelandair, who connects traffic from JFK to Europe via KEF with the optional free two day stopover.
93 OlympicATH : It's true that ATL-ATH will only be operating for a few weeks this summer. Is it coming back next year or has it been confirmed that the route is bei
94 FSDan : Well, it's a summer-seasonal route that's being suspended going into summer, so it doesn't look to good... Especially if fuel prices stay high. It's
95 cslusarc : If DL and Skyteam want to grow on the West Coast, they need to acquire AS and prevent Mileage Plan members from earning points for traveling on BA, t
96 AA1818 : So far Kiev is the only market being permanently discontinued by DL? All the others seem to be seasonal from what posters here are saying? Are there
97 BoeingGuy : I'm sure DL isn't going to aquire another carrier just to prevent their mileage plan members from earning miles on another partner on one route, if t
98 philpdx : I'm not sure what is the status of JFK-KEF. I actually have confirmed seats on JFK-KEF on 7 Sept returning on 17 Sept. Since this discussion started
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