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Singapore Air Dragging Their Feet To Retire 747s?  
User currently offlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20955 times:

I remember when the original A380 delays were announced, one after the other, Singapore Airlines was very unhappy, especially because they had to keep their 747s in service for longer. However, now with the A380 in service for almost 3 and a half years, they seem to be leaving the 747 on the JFK route, with no apparent replacement, and they only recently replaced the 747 on the LAX route. Also, one of the MEL flights was a 747 recently for a while. What is taking them so long?

Has the market for used 747s been saturated to a point where it is just not economical to get rid of them?

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20968 times:

I beleive SQ has confirmed that all of their pax 744s will be gone by the end of the year. The routes you mentioned will all be replaced by 77Ws though it is possible the MEL-SIN route will be replaced by an upgraded and refurbished 773.


717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20784 times:

9V-SPM went from the fleet just the other day on Monday. Was flight planned to fly direct SIN-RME (New York) as N747NB but seemingly went to HKG instead.

User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20764 times:

Quoting kaitak744 (Thread starter):
the A380 in service for almost 3 and a half years

Well if you started counting since the first delivery, it may appear to be a long time, but the remaining frames are all delayed as a result as well, so that also impacted on 744 retirements.

The downswing in 2008-2009 accelerated retirements, but the sudden upswing after that meant they had too little spare capacity to take full advantage. If I recall correctly some retired 744s in the desert were brought back into service?

Anyway now that SQ is going to setup a longhaul LCC, it will be real cool if at least one ends up becoming a flying cattle range!



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Switzerland, joined Dec 2009, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19965 times:
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Quoting RobK (Reply 2):
9V-SPM went from the fleet just the other day on Monday. Was flight planned to fly direct SIN-RME (New York) as N747NB but seemingly went to HKG instead.

May I ask you where you find this kind of information?

Some week's ago I saw (Pic on A.Net) that 9V-SMU (s/n 1000) is in TLV for frighter conversion. Does anybody know who the new owner will be?

Which of the remaining 744's are in SQ's fleet? Is it know'n who will be the new owner's?

What about the stored a/c's?



Next Flt: ZRH-KBP-ALA-TSE Rtn on PS/DV 29.7 - 11.8.2014
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19875 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 3):
Well if you started counting since the first delivery, it may appear to be a long time, but the remaining frames are all delayed as a result as well, so that also impacted on 744 retirements.

Just to add that the availability of seats is the last element in an unfortuante series of these delays.

SQ still is rather fast with 744 replacement, LH even with 748I coming soon will keep many of them for another decade.


User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19785 times:

AF too are keeping their 747 way longer than SQ.

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19684 times:

Since SQ announced a low-cost division, aren't these B747-400 deployed with this new airline?

User currently offlinenethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1068 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19581 times:

Can someone from SQ confirm the remaining 747-400 PAX?

SPE
SPJ - last one with old, smaller title
SPN
SPO
SPP
SPQ

total = 6?

At least LH and THAI are keeping many of their 744s for another decade.

Good news, THAI 747-400 HS-TGR - Siriwatthana is retrofitted with PTV / ZIM seats in economy class and
ready to serve BKK-FRA! (HS-TGH/J/K/L/M/N to leave the fleet and/or BCF(ed))

Watch out LH 747-400 now THAI 747-400 has PTV in economy!!



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19554 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 7):
Since SQ announced a low-cost division, aren't these B747-400 deployed with this new airline?

The LCC is supposed to use SQs excess 777.



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2360 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19533 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I will definitely miss the SQ B744s when they're gone, quite a great looking aircraft/airline combination if you ask me. Ironically, it's the toughest SQ aircraft to spot in Singapore these days, as they usually come and leave under the cover of darkness.

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 4):

Some week's ago I saw (Pic on A.Net) that 9V-SMU (s/n 1000) is in TLV for frighter conversion. Does anybody know who the new owner will be?

According to the photo remark, it is going to World Airways Cargo.

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 4):
Which of the remaining 744's are in SQ's fleet?

9V-SPJ, 9V-SPN, 9V-SPO, 9V-SPP, 9V-SPQ all seem to be active at the moment. No word on their retirement or future owners, but I'm sure we will all find out in the near future.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 7):
Since SQ announced a low-cost division, aren't these B747-400 deployed with this new airline?

There has been no announcement yet, but I personally do not see the B744s sticking around for their LCC routes.


User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19174 times:

Two of the B747-400s have been "sold" to Singapore Airlines Cargo and will be converted into B747-412BCF by SIA Engineering Company. 9V-SPA has already been converted and is close to being delivered to SIA Cargo.

SIA's latest fleet list shows only four B744 passenger aircraft.

KC Sim


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17953 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 9):
The LCC is supposed to use SQs excess 777.

That is just our guesses so far right? The airline did not even mention if they are using ex-SQ planes even if it seemed obvious cost-wise, let alone the plane type.

Quoting je89_w (Reply 10):
I personally do not see the B744s sticking around for their LCC routes.

I personally hope they end up in the LCC branch. Will be such a delight!



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineStevo310 From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17737 times:

For all their comfort, expansive interior and efficiency, as an airliner photographer, the B747-412's of SIA still hold a place dear to my heart, as far as desirability of photographic subjects.
The regular usage of these craft on SQ237 / 228 has been one of my Melbourne Airport photography visit highlights.
I am thankful for many great shots, but for how much longer ???


User currently offlinemxp From Italy, joined Aug 2003, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17319 times:

hi people
reading about this thread do u think they will be still around at the beginning of october?
i wish to fly one on my birthday date
Alberto


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8866 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17268 times:

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 4):
frighter conversion

Sounds like a scary prospect, what is involved with that ?
 



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17073 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 16):

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 4):
frighter conversion

Sounds like a scary prospect, what is involved with that ?

A ghost plane?  Wow!



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16075 times:

Just got off one of their superb 380's from HKG. The June in flight mag says they are down to 4 744's. There were none in Sing when we landed, but 5 of their 380's were on the deck. Last month I believe there were 7 units. How they are managing I do not know, plus the 380 is going on LAX soon, so more 380's must be expected, maybe they have seats and engines?

It will be sad to see the Mega Tops go, only seems like the other day that they were replacing the 300's!!


User currently offlinejetfan From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12557 times:

Quoting something (Reply 11):
They're terribly worn out on the inside

Yes, agree - and that's why they have to leave passenger service ASAP
otherwise they will really hurt SQs reputation.
As much as I like the 747, I would never book a 747 route like SQ 25/26 again,
unless it's really cheap.


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11214 times:

Quoting jetfan (Reply 19):
As much as I like the 747, I would never book a 747 route like SQ 25/26 again,
unless it's really cheap.

Try flying DL/LH/TG on their 744's in economy, much worse than SQ and without the service!!!


User currently offlineJetstar315 From Australia, joined Sep 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10548 times:
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In reply to B738FlyUIA SQ B747-412 9V-SMU is now owned by Aircastle, the aircraft leasing arm of Fortress Investment Group. New York and it is to be leased to World Airways on completion of conversion to B747-412(BDSF). Its current rego is N417AC

User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10216 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting something (Reply 11):
ugly ass 777s

*ahem*   

One could say the same about the A380, but I digress ...

I agree with your point that it's sad to see the 744s go. The 744s are the best looking subsonic airliner built, and I think it's a shame that SQ didn't refurbish the interior with the same seats as on the 77W. The interior of those 744s are starting to look worn. SQ's 744s aren't particularly old either, certainly not by 744 standards. 9V-SPO, 9V-SPP and 9V-SPQ were all delivered in 2001, while other airlines have 744s delivered in 1989 still flying (QF and CX, just to name two). They shouldn't be at retirement age, and I hope they find a new home somewhere instead of being sent to the desert.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineloalq From Switzerland, joined Jan 2007, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

What about SQs 772 and 773 with the old configurations? I flown SIN-DXB a couple of weeks ago on a rather old 772, to the point where I preferred to change my return flight to EK. Last week I did SIN-SYD, inbound leg on the A388 but the return leg, also scheduled for the A388, had to be performed by another old 773 because "one of the A380s was still grounded in Europe due to operational issues" (I guess it was because of the LHR incident). Business class in these old 777s is a shame for SQ, but now I realize that they actually only have the "new" business class on the minority of their fleet (A388, 77W and A345). Is it supposed to remain like this for long? As long as cabin service itself is still very good, the "new regional", "ultimo" and "spacebed" configurations are rather weak products...


"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10127 times:

Quoting nethkt (Reply 8):
Watch out LH 747-400 now THAI 747-400 has PTV in economy!!

Is FRA getting this plane every day? If so, I'm quite disappointed! I had a choice of flying Thai or LH. Since I'm flying Thai to Europe (OSL), I decided to take LH back, as I haven't flown LH (and neither had PTV anyway!)!

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10354 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 22):
The 744s are the best looking subsonic airliner built, and I think it's a shame that SQ didn't refurbish the interior with the same seats as on the 77W.

SQ can afford to be choosey about their fleet and whilst the 744 has been a great workhorse for over 20 years, it can't compete financially with the A380 or 77W. I'm sure QF would love to be able to retire their 744s today but they have nothing to replace them with (ie not enough A380s and no 777s).

The QF 744s are getting expensive to maintain and are becoming unreliable. QF has a major cost issue compared with airlines like SQ and EK. The 744 is part of this problem and with fuel continuing to go up, the cost differential associated with the 744 is worsening.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
25 Post contains links nethkt : It's only HS-TGR at the moment (2nd June 2011), so you would be very lucky to get it. HS-TGR will perform TG920/921 mainly, so it's every other day.
26 nethkt : ***update*** Once done, HS-TGO/P/R/T/W/X will perform TG910/911/916/917 BKK-LHR-BKK and TG920/921/922/923 BKK-FRA-BKK Total 6 - 744 frames needed. Wit
27 Post contains images B738FlyUIA : Thanks Jetstar315 for your reply!!
28 SASDC8 : It is sad to see SQ's 747s go, but I am sure all of them will find new good (cargo) homes. Has TG said anything about configuration on their own 777-E
29 Post contains links bmibaby737 : Actually, I believe only 9V-SPJ, 9V-SPO, 9V-SPP & 9V-SPQ are the active aircraft. http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Singapore-Airlines 9V-SPA
30 nethkt : Nope. Still 10 Royal First 40 Royal Silk and 325 Economy class with 34 inches pitch as before. HS-TGY/Z/A/B/F/G will get First class suite (same as K
31 nethkt : I'm not quite sure how accurate planespotters.net is. Not to discredit (they are doing wonderful job about aircraft c/n, In) but they mess up aircraf
32 je89_w : Thank you, that sounds quite right. Seems pretty accurate considering the four aircraft above had ACARS log entries for today. The last entry for 9V-
33 VC10er : So the C and F seats on today's 747's are the same seats as 8 to 10 years ago? I flew SQ from JFK to FRA once about 8/10 years ago, the C seat was th
34 flythere : Does that sudden market upswing spare capacity reflected in SQ's 70s% load factor? Absolutely right, 777 seems more logical for a newly set-up LCC. C
35 B738FlyUIA : If I'm correct that Transaero has also B744('s) from SQ!!
36 na : So far all of SQs 744s have found new operators, and the last four remaining will certainly do well, too, being the newest. Interesting to observe, b
37 Post contains images je89_w : Update on 9V-SPN. As earlier mentioned in this thread, 9V-SPN was indeed withdrawn from the SQ fleet and was seen today undergoing an air-test, sporti
38 jfk777 : Hey Transaero has people from a country with money wanting to travel to anywhere the sun is warm and tropical, all those 744 seem to find there way to
39 VC10er : Gosh I wish UA would take some!
40 SFOA380 : I miss seeing the Mega-Tops at SFO... I know their 777 is far superior, but nothing looks as graceful parked at the gate as a 744. I look forward to f
41 cx828 : One of hte five stars airline SQ will retire all the 744 this year while another five stars airlines CX still want to keep their 20+ 744 for at least
42 jfk777 : Cathay's have new F suites and New J( not the latest) seats. Singapore's 744 habe 10 year old F and J seats, no new innovative products which is a sh
43 DTWLAX : I believe the last 4 are operating the LAX and JFK routes? LAX will soon be switching over to the A380.... is that next month?
44 je89_w : Umm, that would defeat the whole purpose of what this thread is about. Why put in the money to get seats fitted and installed on an aircraft they're
45 CXB77L : For uniformity. The new J, F and Y seats made their debut when SQ got their 77Ws in 2006, which, as it turned out, was 5 years before the 744s were e
46 jfk777 : The point of my post is the key word "dragging", if SQ wanted to kill of the 744 they could have done it 2 years ago and NOT sold newer 777 to Brunei
47 aviasian : By 21 August 2011, another B747-412 will be withdrawn from use and there will therefore be only three B744s at that point operating just one daily rou
48 DTWLAX : Oops... forgot all about that What will SQ do with the third 744? The route needs just 2 aircrafts. Will they use the third to do any of the high den
49 aviasian : The third B744 is maintained as a back-up for the two that is needed for the daily SIN-FRA-JFK route, but it does not sit idle. All three aircraft wil
50 lucky777 : Once Delta upgrades all of the -400's with the same interior as the 777's they should actually prove to be a pretty nice ride in the back. And the ne
51 tullamarine : Retirement of next 744 will follow termination of 744 service to MEL. This is being replaced with a 773 with the refurbished interior so the customer
52 B738FlyUIA : Does anybody know when the last flight to MEL with a 744 will be?
53 ZK-NBT : Only in First, 773s have the same J as the A333 and refitted 772 fleet and Y wasn't upgraded seat wise anyway. June 30th. SIN-FRA-JFK needs 3 aircraf
54 na : Thats 9V-SPB, right? Will the remaining three 744s also be converted or will they be sold?
55 aviasian : No, the next aircraft undergoing freighter conversion for SIA Cargo is 9V-SPE which will be re-registered 9V-SCB. 9V-SPB is already operating with El
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