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Delta LHR OPS And A/C Routing  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Hey guys, I've recently returned from MAD over the past few days (TR in the making, look out for it) and noticed how DL turns a/c at some int'l stations. Especially those with multiple hub service. In MAD for example, the inbound Atlanta aircraft turns JFK and the inbound JFK turns to Atlanta. It's to reduce groundtime as the Atlanta inbound would sit in Madrid for much longer if it went back to Atlanta rather than doing JFK which is timed to leave first.

Now, LHR seems to be more complicated. ATL is 2x daily on some days as is DTW. That doesn't mean, however, that 2 a/c are deployed from ATL to turn the two outbounds. So here it is. With DL now flying MSP/DTW/MIA/ATL/JFK/BOS-LHR, anyone have any idea how all the a/c are routed through Heathrow from the hubs (and MIA/BOS)?

Also as an aside, EXLUDING J/Vs, how do US airlines stack up at LHR based on frequencies and amount of seats offered on ther OWN metal.


What gets measured gets done.
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineeicvd From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2171 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4296 times:

Im not really answering your question but it might be helpful, I saw both N844MH & N845MH arrive @ LHR on both the 15th & 16th of May.

User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

I'm sure they have lots of flexibility. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Delta exclusively send the 764 to LHR?

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):
I'm sure they have lots of flexibility. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Delta exclusively send the 764 to LHR?

Yes, because of the flat-bed seats. The only exception being the evening departure from BOS which was downgraded to a 752.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Do the posted schedules on DLNet for LHR not give you the inbound/outbound routing info you're looking for?


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3628 times:

There is no real set pattern to what inbound does what outbound as I have seen many combos from the below.

Flt No Time Time IATA
DL270 0655 BOS
DL3 0705 JFK
DL6 0740 DTW
DL260 0830 MIA
DL5 0915 DTW
DL1 0925 JFK
DL261 0940 MIA
DL4 1005 JFK
DL262 1015 DTW Wed Fri Sun
DL272 1015 ATL Mon Tue Thu Sat
DL271 1030 BOS
DL144 1035 BOS
DL148 1105 JFK
DL40 1205 MSP
DL10 1215 ATL
DL149 1230 JFK
DL273 1230 ATL Wed Fri Sun
DL263 1300 DTW Mon Tue Thu Sat
DL9 1305 ATL
DL145 1335 BOS
DL41 1425 MSP
DL2 1705 JFK


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 4):

DL Net doesn't show anything special. I know the schedule which anyone can find on Delta.com. The mystery is which inbound frame turns the respective outbound flight. MAD was a good example but that's easy as there are only 2 flight. People probably didn't know that the a/c don't go "Out and Back". You will find the same thing in AMS where the inbound from say MEM may turn to CVG (IDK, just hypothetical).



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Here is the schedule on June 18, with arrivals on the right and departures on the left.

------------------------------------------------06:25 DL 767-400 BOS
------------------------------------------------07:05 DL 767-400 JFK
------------------------------------------------07:40 DL 767-400 DTW
------------------------------------------------08:30 DL 767-400 MIA
09:15 DL 767-400 DTW
------------------------------------------------09:25 DL 767-400 JFK
09:40 DL 767-400 MIA
10:10 DL 767-400 JFK
10:30 DL 767-400 BOS
------------------------------------------------10:35 DL 757-20E BOS
------------------------------------------------11:05 DL 767-400 ATL
------------------------------------------------11:05 DL 767-400 JFK
------------------------------------------------12:05 DL 767-400 MSP
------------------------------------------------12:15 DL 767-400 ATL
12:30 DL 767-400 JFK
12:50 DL 767-400 ATL
01:05 DL 767-400 ATL
01:35 DL 757-20E BOS
02:25 DL 767-400 MSP
05:05 DL 767-400 JFK

As you can see, there is some flexibility because it should only take a maximum of 2 hrs to turn a 764. Here is a possible scenario: the 764 from BOS turns to MIA, and the flight from MIA turns to BOS. The first arrival from JFK turns to DTW, and the arrival from DTW turns to JFK. The second 764 from JFK could return to JFK. The 757 from BOS obviously returns to BOS. Then the first flight from ATL could turn back to ATL at 12:50 (just under 2-hr turn), the last flight from JFK could return as ATL flight number 2 at 1:05pm, the MSP flight could turn back to MSP, and the second arrival from ATL could return as the final departure to JFK. Just one possible theory...



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 7):

Exactly what I was looking for/talking about!! I was up last night trying to come up with my own guesses and it was pretty close to what you've posted. Even more fun was AMS and NRT.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 803 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

It changes day by day. My 271 (early LHR-BOS) yesterday had just come in from MIA, and my 270 the day before turned to the 10:10 to JFK.

User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3392 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
The mystery is which inbound frame turns the respective outbound flight.

Aha...

I didn't realize you were looking for specific airframes (tail #'s). I thought it was more of a "flight 123 from XXX turns flight 456 to YYY" kind of thing, which you can see on DLNet.

Not for nothing, but we used to have an entry in WorldFlight that would show each station in the manner that FSD Dan just mapped out. It's still there, but only shows 9E, XJ, and CP flights...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently onlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

all I know is I caught ship 1809 (I think it was) twice 2 weeks ago -- ATL -> LHR and then LHR -> BOS a few days later!

Interesting coincidence ..



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

As to your other question - about how the U.S. carriers now stack up at Heathrow, for this upcoming summer, it looks something like this:

AA and United (combined United/Continental) are now effectively even at Heathrow. This summer United will operate 1 additional frequency per week (119 vs 118), but AA will have slightly (less than 1%) more capacity (27474 seats/week vs 27258), depending on which PMUA 777 configuration United uses on the ORD/IAD/LAX/SFO flights - more dense/less premium configurations would probably put United slightly over the top of AA in capacity.

Delta is then a fairly distant third behind those two, with a total of 70 weekly departures, and about 16,716 seats per week.

USAirways is a dramatically distant fourth, with only a single daily flight and just 1,806 seats per week.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
As to your other question - about how the U.S. carriers now stack up at Heathrow, for this upcoming summer, it looks something like this:

AA and United (combined United/Continental) are now effectively even at Heathrow. This summer United will operate 1 additional frequency per week (119 vs 118), but AA will have slightly (less than 1%) more capacity (27474 seats/week vs 27258), depending on which PMUA 777 configuration United uses on the ORD/IAD/LAX/SFO flights - more dense/less premium configurations would probably put United slightly over the top of AA in capacity.

Delta is then a fairly distant third behind those two, with a total of 70 weekly departures, and about 16,716 seats per week.

USAirways is a dramatically distant fourth, with only a single daily flight and just 1,806 seats per week.

Thanks! So United has flights to LHR from all the hubs save CLE and DEN, correct. AA out of all their hubs (+BOS). DL out of all the hubs save CVG (+BOS and MIA) and US out of Philly.

Can we get a list going? I was going to do it but i'm so lost on who flys what from where.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
Can we get a list going? I was going to do it but i'm so lost on who flys what from where.

Carrier/Markets (frequencies):

UA (119) = EWR (35) / IAD (28) / ORD (21) / IAH (14) / SFO (14) / LAX (7)
AA (118) = JFK (28) / ORD (28) / BOS (21) / DFW (20) / MIA (7) / LAX (7) / RDU (7)
DL (70) = JFK (21) / BOS (14) / ATL (11) / DTW (10) / MSP (7) / MIA (7)
US (7) = PHL (7)


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
AA out of all their hubs (+BOS).

+RDU

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
DL out of all the hubs save CVG (+BOS and MIA)

-MEM and SLC



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineCarfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1934 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

I sort of did a geeky thing and tried to figure out the turnaround schedule of DL at LHR. I used flightaware as my main tool, and this is what I found during the first week of operation when BOS and MIA was introduced. However, Delta has a very flexible schedule and they can easily change aircraft if there is a delay on one of the flights.

Arrivals (Day of Arrival)
DL 270 Boston 6:25am – DL 4(123457)/DL 261(6)
DL 3 JFK 7:05am – DL 5(123457)/DL 271(6)
DL 6 DTW 7:40am – DL 261(123457)/DL 5(6)
DL 260 MIA 8:30am – DL 271 (12347)/DL 273(5 – CNX of DL 271 on 4/1)/DL 4(6)
DL 1 JFK 9:25am - DL 149(167)/DL 263(2)/DL 273 (3)/DL 9 (4)/DL 2(5)
DL 144 BOS 10:35am - DL 273(1)/DL 9(27)/DL 149(34)/DL 263(6)
DL 148 JFK 11:05am - DL 145(12367)/DL 263(4)/DL 9(5)
DL 40 MSP 12:00pm - DL 2(123)/DL 41(456)/DL 273(7)
DL 10 ATL 12:05pm - DL 41(1237)/DL 145(5)/DL 2(46)
DL 262 DTW 10:15am(3 DL 9/5 DL 149)/12:05pm(7 DL 41/2)
DL 272 ATL 11:05am(1 DL 9)/10:15am(2 DL 149/6 DL 9)/12pm(4 DL 263)

However with Delta 144 and 145 changing to 752 operation (well 767-300ER N197DN did the service on june 2/3), things will be a bit different.

I basically traced the aircraft used on MIA flights and Delta rotates the 764s through Boston and Detroit flights, so Miami rarely see a repeat. But the most consistent is that Delta 6 from Detroit always turns around as Delta 261 to Miami, and Delta 260 from Miam always turns around as Delta 271 to Boston. Delta 270 from Boston will always turns into Delta 4 into JFK. Delta 3 from JFK will rotate to Delta 5 to Detroit.

This is just a reference, not to be take as concerte data. I have given up tracing it as I have already flown Delta 260/261 from June 1.

However, it is interesting to see how Delta's ops at LHR are really flexible, and even with the low load at the Boston flights, they rarely cancelled it. Miami had not seen any cancelation since startup, and Boston flights have only seen five cancellations (three to Boston and two to LHR) so far since start up.

I have traced the arrivals and departures of Delta 260/1, 270/1, and Delta 144/5 from their first day of operation till June 1. If you want the word document, just send me a message and I will email it to you!

Carfield


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1623 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2853 times:

Had some free time this morning, so have looked at lhr-lgw.co.uk, which gives details on what metal was used on which routes..

from this, using a random date of 4th May, I was able to establish the following schedule:

Heathrow 04/05/11
DAL270 N844MH B764 KBOS
DAL3 N833MH B764 KJFK
DAL6 N840MH B764 KDTW
DAL260 N826MH B764 KMIA
DAL5 N833MH B764 KDTW
DAL1 N837MH B764 KJFK
DAL262 N834MH B764 KDTW
DAL261 N844MH B764 KMIA
DAL4 N840MH B764 KJFK
DAL144 N829MH B764 KBOS
DAL271 N826MH B764 KBOS
DAL148 N842MH B764 KJFK
DAL40 N843MH B764 KMSP
DAL273 N829MH B764 KATL
DAL10 N835MH B764 KATL
DAL149 N837MH B764 KJFK
DAL9 N842MH B764 KATL
DAL145 N834MH B764 KBOS
DAL41 N835MH B764 KMSP
DAL2 N843MH B764 KJFK

So from this, we can say that:

DL270 (BOS) left as DL261 (MIA)
DL3 (JFK) left as DL5 (DTW)
DL6 (DTW) left as DL4 (JFK)
DL260 (MIA) left as DL271 (BOS)
DL1 (JFK) left as DL149 (JFK)
DL262 (DTW) left as DL145 (BOS)
DL144 (BOS) left as DL273 (ATL)
DL148 (JFK) left as DL9 (ATL)
DL40 (MSP) left as DL2 (JFK)
DL10 (ATL) left as DL41 (MSP)

Quoting Carfield (Reply 16):
This is just a reference, not to be take as concerte data.

my analysis seems to back up your work   

no schedules are loaded on the lhr-lgw.co.uk for June yet, so cannot see how the B752 BOS operations have changed things.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 15):
-MEM and SLC

How could I forget about our friend down 40W and out on the lake! 
Quoting Carfield (Reply 16):

Thank you!

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 17):

and thank you!! I'm trying to do one for AMS as well; DL metal only to the states. Still giving me trouble but I think i'm getting there.

BTW, you've got mail Carfield!



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
Carrier/Markets (frequencies):

UA (119) = EWR (35) / IAD (28) / ORD (21) / IAH (14) / SFO (14) / LAX (7)
AA (118) = JFK (28) / ORD (28) / BOS (21) / DFW (20) / MIA (7) / LAX (7) / RDU (7)
DL (70) = JFK (21) / BOS (14) / ATL (11) / DTW (10) / MSP (7) / MIA (7)
US (7) = PHL (7)



Looking at everyone, and thinking back to the other MIA thread we've been commenting on, it seems like DL is simply playing a numbers game, trying to gain ground at LHR but at what cost? I've been studying fare buckets into LHR on DL for a while now and I can say that MSP and ATL does very will with J and B/H/M/Q/Y fares. There are tons of elites on the flights although the fare is split more-so than not due to the nature of a hub. Not much local traffic. However, JFK tends to do so so along with DTW. Can't really speak for MIA because they're still running introductory discounted business and coach fares (PLUS all the connections). Same thing with BOS.

Which leads me to the question, what's with MIA and BOS-LHR? I'm sure if they could, those slots would go to the other hubs in half a minute if they could but I don't see AA/BA sweetening DL's pot.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

A real shame we dont get more of those lovely DL A330s at LHR, or even their triple seven.

Really bored of seeing their 764ERs all the time - would be much cooler if they threw in some different types. I've not seen their 757 yet but will look out for it.

How about a 744 on JFK-LHR for the summer? We can dream!



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 20):
A real shame we dont get more of those lovely DL A330s at LHR, or even their triple seven.

Really bored of seeing their 764ERs all the time - would be much cooler if they threw in some different types. I've not seen their 757 yet but will look out for it.

How about a 744 on JFK-LHR for the summer? We can dream!

I'm sure you'll start seeing more variation a few years down the road, when all the widebody fleet is configured with lie-flats. Then you'll probably see at least a mix of 763s and 764s, with maybe some 332s or 333s. I doubt LHR will ever get a DL 777 since they use those for their range.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 20):
A real shame we dont get more of those lovely DL A330s at LHR, or even their triple seven.

Really bored of seeing their 764ERs all the time

Considering how few 764ER's there are worldwide, at only two carriers, I'd be a lot more excited to see them in your shoes. A330's at LHR (and 744's, and 777's) are pretty much a dime a dozen.


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