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Delta AFA Election - NMB Speaks  
User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

Six months later, the NMB decides to continue with an investigation at Delta. Considering the recent house committee formation to investigate the NMB itself and it's handling last year of the Delta case, how much of this do you think has real merit, versus more politics or posturing on the NMB's part?

Today's press release, slanted towards the AFA's position:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...erits-investigation-122979783.html

Recent press release regarding house committee formation, slanted towards Delta's position:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/busines...ecision-to-investigate-labor-board

I feel for the flight attendants involved. Hope it's all over soon.


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

They just need to get all this over with so they can finally move forward with integrating the two sides.

Same for the ramp - they need to resolve it with IAM so they can get the sides and stations combined, finally.


User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 8296 times:

The Boeing defeat for a SC plant is also a point of consideration for the house committee while reviewing the NMB. Add in today's USAPA lawsuit and the UA/CO elections, sounds like an all-out aviation vs. union WWF event.

[Edited 2011-06-01 19:55:19]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

The company will spin it and try to discredit the NMB as they have been attempting to do in recent weeks. The union considers this a victory. The only people losing are the former employees of NWA, who continue to be treated like second class citizens.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7796 times:

What's the hold up guys? The NMB has got 3 decision makers, 2 in the bag for the unions. Again, what's the hold up? Playing games right? They know a quick decision favoring the unions and a re-vote would result in a defeat, again.

They will stretch the status quo as long as they can. Only "time" and a continuing miserable economic outlook could favor the union long term, possibly. This is a high stakes game full of politics. Uncertainty, a long election season, fear mongering is what keeps these clowns alive.

Delta campaigned. IAM and AFA campaigned. So what? They all sent out many many direct mails and flyers.

NMB (or the 2 people in the majority) is just waiting for the perfect storm to develop when "re-voting" conditions are more favorable towards unions. If they are allowed to get away with it, I can't blame them.

It will be interesting to see if DL would be "banned" or limited from "campaigning". Would that prevent the unions from campaigning also? Something sounds very undemocratic/fishy here...

In the end, regardless of outcome, guess who has the long end of the stick? ALWAYS. The employER.

I'm sure the NMB will decide before Nov 2012 since they likely won't be able to hold on to their majority vote favoring unions. Again, we can't blame them for using powers we gave them though.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7727 times:

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 3):
The only people losing are the former employees of NWA, who continue to be treated like second class citizens.

It looks to me that every employee At Delta who voted NO union are losing.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 3):
The only people losing are the former employees of NWA, who continue to be treated like second class citizens.

That is a sophomoric way to look at it. Isn't it the unions who are preventing all steps to make total equality between employee groups. Which way did you vote during the election and did you feel any company threats or coercion. to vote a particular way. If yes you were coerced, then please give some specific examples.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

All employees should welcome this latest development.

Those that feel DL interfered get their "day in court." Those that can only think of DL in hagiographic terms get a possible shot at vindication as well.

@Bobnwa-- I know you were asking someone else, but thought I'd chime in. I never felt "interefered" with. Annoyed, sure, but that doesn't meet the threshold. That said, to say that one person's experience is indicative of the whole would be a fallacy. IMO, as long as one person somewhere was wronged, then the whole election is suspect. To me, it's more than an issue of winning or losing (and, yeah, I'm still a "yes" vote), but more an issue of the results reflecting a truly clean voting process.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7640 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 5):
That is a sophomoric way to look at it. Isn't it the unions who are preventing all steps to make total equality between employee groups. Which way did you vote during the election and did you feel any company threats or coercion. to vote a particular way. If yes you were coerced, then please give some specific examples.

The company won't even acknowledge how much they spent on anti-union leaflets, banners, display units, dvds, magnets, etc....(I don't know about you, but the word "brainwashing" comes to mind). So much misinformation was trotted out in shift briefings, without the opportunity for union members to counter it. I wasn't even able to eat my lunch in peace during this campaign without being subject to this parade of ignorance. Even the company's "help" websites were filled with banner ads and pop-up windows which redirected employees to anti-union "FAQ" pages. As soon as the vote results were announced in December, our union bulletin board with newsletters and information was promptly unbolted from the wall and hauled away.

And now, Bob, people like yourself are trying to frame the argument that the "union" is the one holding up a final outcome. That is patently false. I, along with many employees want to be treated like everyone else -- and I can be patient while issues of seniority integration and blending of work rules are resolved. However, I am not going to pretend to ignore the fact that the PMDL colleagues that work alongside me are now making $6,400 more a year than I am--doing the same work, thanks to their Fall 2010 raise which was not extended to the "one great team" that happened to be from NWA. I am not going to ignore the fact that they continue to receive benefits that are not allocated to my employee group, when there is nothing stopping the company from offering those same contractual improvements to me. (Just ask Mr. Anderson about contractual improvements during negotiations, he knows all about that....) This company has easily made back all of the millions they invested in the anti union campaign in the wage inequality alone, and they are laughing all the way to the bank. Do you think DL really wants a quick resolution to all of this?

In addition to the wage inequality, PMNW employees are being blocked from applying from certain positions within the company, denied the ability to work in TDY assignments, denied management incentives like Success Sharing payouts -- even though all of the NW performance based incentives were quickly scrapped after the close of the merger because they were "NW programs." So PMNW employees are told they are no longer eligible for NW incentives or DL incentives. So, you tell me who is playing hardball....


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

AFA needs to just let it go. They have tried to Unionize Delta like 3 times and were unsuccesful. When do you get a clue and stop spending the dues of other members at other carriers ?? They are very desperate ..They know if they lose the NW and the UA membership they are done. It leaves only USairways being the only Major carrier represented by them and the US folks aren't to happy with them neither . Trust me, I know, I am one of them .

User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7607 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 8):
It leaves only USairways being the only Major carrier represented by them...

I'm sure F/A's at AS (among others) would be very curious to learn when they stopped being members of the AFA.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7596 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 8):
Do you think DL really wants a quick resolution to all of this?

Yes, I do. The sooner the workforces are integrated, the better for the employees, the better for the customers, the better for the company. And everyone knows it.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
Yes, I do. The sooner the workforces are integrated, the better for the employees, the better for the customers, the better for the company. And everyone knows it.

        

The folks coming up with DL management slanted conspiracy theories are clearly in the union "bag". Nothing objective about it. Early out packages at certain departments are being offered to ALL employees. No distinction there. Unions like to follow the letter of the law in their favor. DL has that same ability. Why would they deviate from your union contracts?
There's absolutely no conspiracy here, from DL's side. They are in the drivers seat either way. One being more annoying, potentially.

NW has already proven of being capable to bust a union. What was that definition of "insanity" again???



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 11):
Why would they deviate from your union contracts?

The IAM contract has been amendable since last December.

DL is quickly becoming an expert at using a labor contract to deny worker rights, rather than guarantee minimum standards.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 8):
It leaves only USairways being the only Major carrier represented by them and the US folks aren't to happy with them neither

United's flight attendants are also presently represented by AFA.

NS


User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 6):
@Bobnwa-- I know you were asking someone else, but thought I'd chime in. I never felt "interefered" with. Annoyed, sure, but that doesn't meet the threshold. That said, to say that one person's experience is indicative of the whole would be a fallacy. IMO, as long as one person somewhere was wronged, then the whole election is suspect. To me, it's more than an issue of winning or losing (and, yeah, I'm still a "yes" vote), but more an issue of the results reflecting a truly clean voting process.





I hope that Congress crushes down the NMB and kicks the out to the curb. And yes I am A NO VOTE on Unions.
Thats one way to fix our natio's budget NO more NMB.

I see union interferance here too. All the times the union thugs were stalking me at the parking lott and comming to my home. How the HELL did they got my address in the first place, you dont call that interferace UHH.

[Edited 2011-06-02 10:33:18]

User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 14):
I hope that Congress crushes down the NMB and kicks the out to the curb. And yes I am A NO VOTE on Unions.

It's a shame that you think labor shouldn't have a voice. If your house were broken into you'd call the police, right? Same thing. labor has a complaint, the NMB (for us) is where we go for resolution.

Quote:
Thats one way to fix our natio's budget NO more NMB.

What an odd thing to say. I'm curious how you think the dissolution of the panel would "fix" the nation's budget issues.

Quote:
I see union interferance here too. All the times the union thugs were stoking me at the parking lott and comming to my home. How the HELL did they got my address in the first place, you dont call that interferace UHH.

What's "stoking" mean in this context?



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 15):
What an odd thing to say. I'm curious how you think the dissolution of the panel would "fix" the nation's budget issues




One less worthless goverment departament that my TAX dollars does't have to support.


User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7319 times:

I feel bad for the NWA F/As. They shouldn't be treated like that. I also hope things don't get like this with UA. How likely is this to happen again with UA?


From the airport with love
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 16):
One less worthless goverment departament that my TAX dollars does't have to support.

And what would you like to see as an alternative? Not just for DL, but for all carriers.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1179 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

Some on here will just never ever get it. And of course so predictable
The AFA had a voice, the MAJORITY of F/A'S told
Them what they could to with their "voice" but they just won't leave. Sad for the MAJORITY.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7272 times:

...Almost as predictable as the legions of people rushing to blindly defend the company.

The investigation is not about the end result itself, but rather how things were conducted.

Look, someone somewhere took issue w/how the company handled itself during all this. The NMB found that to be substantive enough to at least warrant further inquiry. That may not be convenient for a lot of our coworkers, but that's just how it is.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 7):
So, you tell me who is playing hardball....

I notice that you are unable to give a single example of DL intimidating or threatening a single employee to vote for no union. Why is that? As far as interfering with you lunch, come on get serious. Cut out all the union retoric. You know the typical stuff about how you broke your back for the company and gave sweat and tears for the company or the crap about the PMNW emploees being treated like second class citizens. Did you learn that from history books about John L. Lewis?

Come on, admit that vast majority of DL employees do not want a union and have voted that way several times. And yes your union is holding up the equal pay for all employees


User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
I notice that you are unable to give a single example of DL intimidating or threatening a single employee to vote for no union.
http://www.jointheiam.org/wp-content...et-Service-Interference-Charge.pdf

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
You know the typical stuff about how you broke your back for the company and gave sweat and tears for the company or the crap about the PMNW emploees being treated like second class citizens.

I'm sorry you don't feel that treating a large group of people differently based on prior union membership is somehow not workplace discrimination.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
Come on, admit that vast majority of DL employees do not want a union and have voted that way several times. And yes your union is holding up the equal pay for all employees

Our group has voted once. The flight attendants have voted once. Both elections continue to be investigated. The IAM and AFA have sent several letters to DL specifically stating that nothing is preventing them from granting PMNW employees a raise, and specifically that they waive all claims to tainted laboratory conditions over the raise or profit sharing.


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7018 times:

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 7):
As soon as the vote results were announced in December, our union bulletin board with newsletters and information was promptly unbolted from the wall and hauled away.


You lost right what else were they supposed to do put it in the Delta museum?

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 22):
Our group has voted once. The flight attendants have voted once. Both elections continue to be investigated. The IAM and AFA have sent several letters to DL specifically stating that nothing is preventing them from granting PMNW employees a raise, and specifically that they waive all claims to tainted laboratory conditions over the raise or profit sharing.

Thank god YOU have a JOB!!

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 20):
Almost as predictable as the legions of people rushing to blindly defend the company


I'm not blind just not brainwashed!!. And please lets have a vote tomorrow cause i know my dept will win again if not more of a landslide...


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

What took you so long to show up?


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
25 rwy04lga : I damn sure did, by the IAM Bull hockers! Someone pass this guy a tissue! And if they did, the IAM would accuse DL of bribing the workforce. Surely y
26 dlflynhayn : I've been biting my tongue on a few other posts,but to be honest i have been enjoying flying to your former NW hubs NRT and AMS had a great time.I ti
27 swa4life : That's indicative of a growing sentiment among Americans today which only furthers the polarization of our socioeconomic classes. No longer do middle
28 jetjack74 : Why should that matter? What point does that have. Should we force the AFA to open up their books to see how much they have spent on organising effor
29 nwaesc : How can a union interfere w/it's own organizing drive? You've never struck me as someone that was easily intimidated. Weird...
30 NWA744TPA : When you virtually bombarded in a slow longlasting drumbeat with anti-union messages, day after day, week after week, month after month, it IS interfe
31 breaker1011 : At NW, were you in a vote that meant moving a workforce more than 50% non-union to a union? I thought unionization of most every NW workforce had bee
32 FlyASAGuy2005 : I've read your reference 3 times and i'd like to say the EAS program is a huge waste of money. A little OT, yes, but definitely a government program
33 NWA744TPA : Yes - these were votes going from one union to another, and on occasion some dissatisfied flight attendants floated the idea of going non-union, but t
34 jetjack74 : And not to mention the phone calls by phone-bankers in MSP, DTW, and ATL asking you if you received you voting instructions, have you voted and who d
35 flyguy89 : Because there exists a federally mandated minimum wage and work place rules that have already been codified into federal law! These aren't the dark a
36 MSPNWA : You didn't even have to be an associated party to feel the "love" from Delta in this election. I'll never forget the quote in the Minneapolis paper fr
37 jetjack74 : You know what? The bases were so different geography and size, it'll hardly even be noticed. Most of the NW people will at the former NW bases, and v
38 Post contains images DLATLOpsSup : This is a little late, but well said...and I know you know how I would vote if I could
39 Post contains images DLATLOpsSup : Actually, what I think he was trying to say, was through the course of the merger, NINE elections were held throughout the company, and in all nine o
40 bobnwa : Thanks for help in clarifying what I said. I also notice that NWBOS has not or cannot give an examle of anyone being threatened or coerced by Delta.
41 Post contains images nwaesc : (chuckle) A *lot* off topic, but it's definitely something that needs to be revamped. I didn't like that either; especially the asking of how one vot
42 Post contains links NWBOS : I've already linked to the briefs filed by IAM. In case you missed them, here are the links again, along with AFA: IAM Fleet http://www.takingbackour
43 peanuts : Aha! We get to the heart of it. So in essence, the union is "immune" to anything, can get away with anything, since they "own" this thing. And an emp
44 FlyASAGuy2005 : I don't quite understand this nwaesc. I have tons of respect for you but I have a different view here. Can you please explain this?
45 rwy04lga : Some unionist complained that DL interfered by sending materials to their address. If that can be considered interference by that person, I consider
46 Post contains images nwaesc : They are not "immune" in the sense that they can do anything they want, but the fact is (like it or not) that there are different rules for a company
47 goldenstate : I see that you remain mired in an outdated ideological argument in which union supporters are rational, intelligent thinkers and those who oppose the
48 nwaesc : Careful with that broad brush... That's as silly as someone saying all union members are "thugs." There is zealotry on both sides of the issue to be
49 goldenstate : I'm not painting with a broad brush at all. I'm referring specifically to your repeated suggestions that just about anyone who supports the company a
50 DLDTW1962 : Here we go again. More time wasted on who did what to whom. Everyone should just get over them selves and go back to work. Be thankfull you have a job
51 nwaesc : Not "just about anyone," but a great many people through their words or writing give the impression that they have completely outsourced their cognit
52 mayor : ACS has had representation elections twice before, with the TWU........IFS has had two previous elections with the AFA......in all cases, the unions
53 ericaasen : Yeah, that's the thing that's been bugging me the most. I know the government has some strange definitions for words (i.e. the EPA's definition of a
54 LAXtoATL : Not to mention the NMB itself is being investigated by Congress.
55 sancho99504 : If labor has a complaint, there is the Department of Labor to take care of labor issues. If there are workplace safety issues, there is OSHA to prote
56 nwaesc : You did read the rest of what I wrote about it, right? I hear ya, but remember both sides continued to file claims/counterclaims/responses up until (
57 NorthstarBoy : Here's a solution the AFA should be happy with: Hold a new election and if the number of ballots cast is more than the total number of legacy NW emplo
58 goldenstate : One could just as easily turn that around and say that the predecessor company has injected a streak of antagonism that is at least equally stunning.
59 mayor : Yes, I did.......I was just making a clarification for those that didn't know what it was about. Why?? Why can't the AFA and IAM be happy with the re
60 commavia : So now AvWeek is reporting that the NMB is launching further investigations into three other recent Delta unionization elections - for fleet service,
61 mayor : Well, it seems like there's really nothing new, here. DL knew that the NMB was going to investigate when the claims were made by the AFA and IAM.....
62 nwaesc : Of course opinions are shaped by experience. But there is a difference between an opinion based on experience, and the parroting of talking points, a
63 mayor : Kind of depends on who is holding the light, don't you think?
64 MaverickM11 : I doubt that's a worry. More likely they're concerned unions on the property will increase costs and decrease flexbility, damaging profitability and
65 nwaesc : I'm talking about the investigation itself, not the possible repercussions of a different voting outcome. With that in mind, should representation co
66 rwy04lga : I always liked that jingle. I've had 30 years 'experience', and that taught me that unions are dinosaurs in a modern age, are totally useless, and a
67 nwaesc : I know, though I suspect that you are benefitting more from your 3 decades in AFSCME than you might want to admit. My experience with representation
68 rwy04lga : That's starting a union from scratch, like IAM/DL vote recently..... ...this is when you're trying to become union-free. Make 'NO UNION' a tick-box c
69 mayor : If you think the unions were trying to be "persuasive" during the representation elections, imagine how'd they'd be if you tried to organize a decert
70 MaverickM11 : Beneficial to the company how? No union has ever willingly reduced costs either through increased flexibility or actual costs, and those always have
71 goldenstate : We will have to agree to disagree on this. The NMB and NLRB have both drifted back and forth between the interests of labor and business, consistent
72 SWALUVFA : I hope all of this gets resolved soon so that the Delta and Northwest employees can finally integrate![Edited 2011-06-08 23:52:13]
73 NorthstarBoy : What i'd be curious about is what the actual numbers were. If, based on the numbers, the union felt they had a reasonable chance of override the will
74 Post contains images nwaesc : Ok. Save it to your clipboard so that the next time this comes up, we can both just cut and paste it. Well, if I was running the show, that's how I w
75 mayor : Is this the unions' idea of a fair and democratic process? If, in a presidential election, would it be fair to limit the number of people who vote in
76 bobnwa : You still haven't given any examples of interference that you saw. Did you see any that you would care to share with us? These would be examples wher
77 DeltaMD90 : I don't get these union doomsdayers. It's not like DL has a history of screwing its employees over, talk to PMDL employees, I'm sure most would agree.
78 mayor : But do the employees that want to decertify have the time & resources to go up against an entrenched union? Look at all the accusations made of D
79 nwaesc : I suspect that there are plenty of anti labor groups that would be more than happy to offer their help. Heck, the Right to Work foundation is already
80 flyguy89 : Yes there maybe some that would be willing to offer assistance, but they're nowhere near as plentiful or deep-pocketed as the unions. And if a vote t
81 Buddys747 : Absolutely. It's been since 2008 since the last stats I saw, so technically I'm giving my opinion since I can't find it anymore, but you would be sur
82 MPDPilot : Now I don't work at Delta so I can't talk to the actual policies at Delta on the matter but in any other job anywhere union or not you have a fair am
83 nwaesc : Flyguy-- Respectfully, you're wrong. I would highly suggest doing some research on the RTW foundation, Heritage, and other like minded groups. All ar
84 mayor : Correct, even at DL, there were always enough people to "fill in the holes" without having to resort to forcing anyone. That and the fact that people
85 peanuts : I just have to say something at this point. A direct relationship with an employer has way more POTENTIAL. Why limit yourself and why bind yourself t
86 Buddys747 : Sounds good, but in most circumstances I wouldn't agree. Most that are anti-union always use the line "be lucky you have a job". I can only imagine a
87 nwaesc : You might want to amend that statement. You seem to be implying that not a single PMNW employee can do so. I know for a fact that it is possible for
88 CMB320 : We have a very unique situation at Delta Air Lines. The IFS team is incredible and helpful, and we as flight attendants are generally a very happy gro
89 Surprise : I love to hear the threats about being forced to work OT at DL. In all my time there I have only heard of it happening recently, and that was at a sta
90 peanuts : Wasn't implying that. With "people" I was referring to knowing OF people with 20 years of seniority in an office with 300-500 people who can't even g
91 peanuts : Plenty of leverage. Just one example: I can leverage myself with my peers by being a better producer, bringing in more profits into the business and
92 flyguy89 : I'm well aware of the operations of the groups that you mentioned and while some might have the resources to go head-to-head with certain unions, the
93 nwaesc : Union or not, seniority rules. That's just how it is in aviation for frontline groups. As far as holidays go, I'll remind you that everyone that hire
94 peanuts : That's the thing, it doesn't. Qualification and ability should rule. Not tenure. Delta recognizes that. With regards to vacation bidding, they have r
95 nwaesc : Doesn't work that way for frontline positions. Time off requests/vacations: Awarded in seniority order Shifts: Bid for in seniority order Pay raises:
96 EXMEMWIDGET : As a former employee of both DL and NW, how are NW employees treated as second class citizens? I have been gone from both airlines for quite awhile a
97 Post contains images mayor : Actually, in a way, yes they can. Depending on how much vacation is due them, they could bid most of their vacation in the first round, usually leavi
98 peanuts : So enlighten me then. What can the union do for DL folks that makes the situation BETTER, aside from having to pay monthly dues? In other words, what
99 nwaesc : I've been providing examples on why I feel representation is beneficial for the better part of 2 years now. It's your turn, now. Next time, try to at
100 Post contains images peanuts : Not my turn. The vote is in. Unions LOST. My examples are correct. Unionized NW folks and Non-unionized DL folks, working side by side at TPA Res. Sa
101 peanuts : I've seen too many examples in my career where that's actually not true, believe it or not. Truth is probably somewhere in between. It's hit or miss.
102 cokepopper : Same with InFlight, each round at DL you can only bid 2 weeks max. Much more fair for all. i.e I aquired 5 weeks vacation. Round 1, I can only bid ma
103 Evan767 : I like how one of the best posts in this thread gets ignored by the pro-union guys. It's an understandable conflict: the NW folks have obviously been
104 T5towbar : I'm sorry.......but this is the airline business. Everything......I mean EVERYTHING is based on the seniority system. Whether you are union or non-un
105 jetjack74 : Yes, we bid for work positions and bid for breaks in seniority order, ie 1st or 2nd break, and which bunk you want. The only aircraft it really matte
106 nwaesc : Again, you're wrong. In RES, a PMDL agent can bid 1-5 weeks in the first round, if they so choose. There's nothing stopping that. No one at NW gets a
107 peanuts : It's not. There is a difference. You got your facts wrong. They bid 2 week rounds at TPA Res. This is the case at TPA res.
108 Post contains images mayor : I'm thinking that this might be a local variance from the norm. I'm not sure, but every department at every station might do this to coincide with ho
109 nwaesc : If 2 weeks is the max allowed in any given round, then they are deviating from stated DL policy. If it's a local variance, so be it. Still doesn't ju
110 bobnwa : NWBOS is unable to come up with any examples of how NW employees are treated as "second class citizens or how he was personally coerced or intimidate
111 Post contains images goldenstate : 1) The anti union/right to work groups are not nearly as deep pocketed as AFL-CIO unions. 2) Anybody that thinks it is a GOOD thing to get Washington
112 CMB320 : Haha, you must be right. I've been trying to find reasons to be miserable, but it's kind of hard. We've got it good at Delta, and flight attendants a
113 nwaesc : I'd disagree, and caution anyone against underestimating the power and reach of Right to Work groups. People like the Koch brothers have very deep po
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