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AC 767 Engine-fire Diverts To YUL  
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

Hmmm, I guess YYT was out of the question since AC 767s no longer fly there?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...2011/06/02/ns-plane-lightning.html


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineairontario From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

It's possible that YYT was experiencing the same weather system if not a worse one that YHZ was at the time, thus making YUL the next best option.

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2922 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting airontario (Reply 1):
It's possible that YYT was experiencing the same weather system if not a worse one that YHZ was at the time, thus making YUL the next best option.

Yep - last thing you want to do is risk getting into a weather situation that might require a go-around on one engine.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Thread starter):
Hmmm, I guess YYT was out of the question since AC 767s no longer fly there?

That has nothing to do with it. YYT can certainly handle the 763 without any problems. We get plenty of them and larger on diversions on a regular basis.

Quoting airontario (Reply 1):
It's possible that YYT was experiencing the same weather system if not a worse one that YHZ was at the time, thus making YUL the next best option.


It was actually a decent night here last night. A little chilly with some showers overnight, but nothing major.
My guess is that AC860 could do YUL just as fast as YYT with more benefits like longer runways, major maintenance base, availability of replacement a/c, etc.
Diverting here probably would have meant scraping the flight, putting everyone in hotels, bringing in a replacment a/c and crew as well as AME's and parts and quite possibly even an engine change. YUL could handle all that better than YYT with less inconvienence to our customers.



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Wonder if something similar has happened with European flights out of YYZ. A 777 or 767 has just taken off in a bad thunderstorm and has engine problems.

Though AC has plenty of engine maintenance resources at YYZ, going to YUL would be safer because of weather issues?



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1342 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 4):
Though AC has plenty of engine maintenance resources at YYZ, going to YUL would be safer because of weather issues?

YUL is closer to YHZ.


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

OK, but YUL would be directly on YYZ-LHR YYZ-FRA and other Canada European flightpaths.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24670 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Following from the Transport Canada daily incident report for Thursday. The AC flight must have pushed back just before a red alert was declared at YHZ shutting down operations on the ramp due to the lightning storm. The aircraft took off at 03:02Z (2 minutes after midnight local time) and the red alert (mentioned in 2nd item) was declared 12 minutes earlier at 02:50Z (11:50 PM). Scheduled departure time was 11:45 PM (02:45Z).

ACA860, Boeing 767-300, enroute from Halifax (CYHZ) to London (EGLL), departed from Halifax on Runway 23 at 03:02Z. The aircraft was navigating around weather (numerous cumulonimbus (CB) clouds and lightning). At approximately 03:10Z, while at 20,300 ft and turning east to remain clear of military restricted areas south of Halifax capped at 20,000 ft., the aircraft experienced an engine failure, declared "Mayday" and elected to maintain the current heading. The aircraft subsequently descended and penetrated restricted areas CYD735 and CYD738 (there was no military activity within the airspace). The aircraft turned east and then north while planning the next steps as Halifax was experiencing multiple CB's and lightning on the approaches. ACA860 eventually elected to divert to Montreal (CYUL), exiting the Moncton Flight Information Region (FIR) at approximately 04:30Z.

A major thunderstorm hit Halifax (CYHZ) and the airport authority declared a red alert at 02:50Z. Equipment failures consisted of WADDS, ASDE, EXCDS, NARDS, ILS RWY 14, D-ATIS. There was a lightning strike on Taxiway D. A NOTAM was issued reporting that ILS 14, RVR 14, Ch 28 DME were unserviceable until 23:59Z.


Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 3):
Quoting airontario (Reply 1):
It's possible that YYT was experiencing the same weather system if not a worse one that YHZ was at the time, thus making YUL the next best option.


It was actually a decent night here last night.

This event was Wednesday night, not last night.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 4):
Though AC has plenty of engine maintenance resources at YYZ, going to YUL would be safer because of weather issues?

When you're flying on one engine you don't want to divert any further than necessary. Normally I expect they would have gone somewhere like YQM or BGR or any of several other airports or military bases closer than YUL, but the entire east coast was affected by severe weather that day, including rare tornadoes in Massachusetts. BOS would also have been slightly closer than YUL.

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 3):
Quoting bmacleod (Thread starter):
Hmmm, I guess YYT was out of the question since AC 767s no longer fly there?

That has nothing to do with it. YYT can certainly handle the 763 without any problems. We get plenty of them and larger on diversions on a regular basis.

A few examples of diversions to YYT involving types of 767 size or larger so far this year (AF 772 February 19, DL 763 March 3, UA 744 April 11, LH A346 May 23, and VS A346 May 29):

AFR636, Boeing 777-200, enroute from Paris (LFPG) to Houston (KIAH), declared a medical emergency and requested to divert to St. John’s (CYYT). The aircraft was cleared to 30,000 ft. and direct to St. John’s. A fuel dump commenced at 15:10Z until 15:22Z on a track YYT/020R. The aircraft landed at 15:53Z without further incident.

DAL46, Boeing 767-300, enroute from Atlanta (KATL) to Moscow (UUEE), declared a medical emergency at 00:50Z and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was cleared as requested and landed at 02:07Z.

At 04:57Z, 45 miles west of 55N050W, UAL958, Boeing 747-400, enroute from Chicago (KORD) to London (EGLL), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was re-cleared as requested and landed at 06:56Z.

DLH424, Airbus A340-600, enroute from Munich (EDDM) to Boston (KBOS) requested clearance to St. John’s (CYYT) due to a medical emergency (passenger). The flight was cleared as requested and landed without incident.

At 16:00Z, VIR21, Airbus A340-600, enroute from London (EGLL) to Washington (KIAD), declared a medical emergency with New York and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was cleared as requested and landed at 16:50Z.


User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
This event was Wednesday night, not last night.

If you look at the date I posted my reply thread, it was the day after the incident....not last night. I was writing in response to the OP about what the weather was like here in YYT on Wednesday night, the night of the incident.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
DAL46, Boeing 767-300, enroute from Atlanta (KATL) to Moscow (UUEE), declared a medical emergency at 00:50Z and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was cleared as requested and landed at 02:07Z.

At 04:57Z, 45 miles west of 55N050W, UAL958, Boeing 747-400, enroute from Chicago (KORD) to London (EGLL), declared a medical emergency and requested clearance direct to St. John’s (CYYT). The flight was re-cleared as requested and landed at 06:56Z.

Funny, I worked both of these diversions.



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
When you're flying on one engine you don't want to divert any further than necessary. Normally I expect they would have gone somewhere like YQM or BGR or any of several other airports or military bases closer than YUL, but the entire east coast was affected by severe weather that day, including rare tornadoes in Massachusetts. BOS would also have been slightly closer than YUL.

I'm not taking about YHZ, I'm taking about flights out of Toronto to Europe where approaching severe weather makes it almost impossible for a flight experiencing engine problems to return thereby making YUL (on Toronto-European flightpaths) best option to repair engine or get replacement aircraft....

My question was: Has there been a incident where European flights out of YYZ could not return due to severe weather?

[Edited 2011-06-06 06:10:52]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 3):
My guess is that AC860 could do YUL just as fast as YYT with more benefits like longer runways, major maintenance base, availability of replacement a/c, etc.


If I remember correctly AC engine shop is in YUL. So a enormous amount of money (and time) was saved as the replacement engine did not have to be trucked/flown to YYT.


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Another benefit of YUL over YYT would be that you could avoid flying over water on one engine. There would be at least a couple possible emergency landing airports between YHZ-YUL compared to pretty much nothing between YHZ-YYT in case the aircraft lost the other engine.

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