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New Frontier/ Republic #21  
User currently offlineintheair10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19299 times:

The last discussion, #20, ended with the companies desire to shed 100 million from the budget, which included 401k reductions, rental reductions, fuel conservation practices, etc. There was also the possibility that the E-190s will be switched to the F9 certificate.

What is odd to me is if the company is so concerned about fuel prices why do they continually prefer to defer MX items like bleeds and packs, rendering the aircraft, in this case the E-190, to 31,000ft and below, significantly increasing fuel burn. I've taken at least three different aircraft, from a MX base, to outstations such as MCO, PIE at FL 310. It doesn't make any sense. The airplane will fly like this until the MEL limit comes up.

Speaking of 190s, here are some pics:

163HQ in Frontier livery; Republic Airways taxing out in MKE by twinflight, on Flickr

EMB-190 Frontier/Republic in LGA, 162HL...Wolf by twinflight, on Flickr

Frontier/Republic 190 161HL by twinflight, on Flickr

[Edited 2011-06-03 10:53:12]

261 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19299 times:

They really like foxes, how many fox planes are there?


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineintheair10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19291 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):
They really like foxes, how many fox planes are there?

Two. 167 and 163HQ. Here's the other:

Republic EMB-190 167HQ baby foxes by twinflight, on Flickr


User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19273 times:

Ah, they moved the baby foxes from the A318 i guess.

But there are more on the airbuses, 2 or 3 (if you include the artic fox) and then a baby fox on an e-jet.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18966 times:

So will all of this life saving actions....the one unsaid item in the back of everybodies mind IMHO is "WN must be laughing at us"

I wish them the best of luck .....Shurz and team had big plans that could have given f9 some open water....alas....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18947 times:
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 4):
.Shurz and team had big plans that could have given f9 some open water....alas....

Hmmm? I don't think Daniel Shurz's plans have changed all that much. The jigsaw puzzle remains what it has always been.

Fuel at these prices may dictate certain new realities, but other opportunities are there to be discovered.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairlinewatcher1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18895 times:

The details of the changes at F9 seem somewhat sketchy to me. Does anybody have some more information to share with us? If not, when will more information become public? Are they purposely trying to share as little information as possible? If so, I don’t understand why.

As far as the fleet is concerned, I didn’t really learn anything that I didn’t already know. Does anybody know if the IFE is going to be standardized on both the Airbus and E-190? If the E-190’s change to the F9 certificate, when would that happen? How exactly are the flight schedules going to change? Are there going to be any route adjustments or discontinuations? I take it that the Q-400’s are staying, as well as the cookies, and the Best Care Club in MKE. It seems to me like they could save some $ if they did away with the cookies and the club.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18865 times:
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Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 6):
The details of the changes at F9 seem somewhat sketchy to me. Does anybody have some more information to share with us? If not, when will more information become public?

I think they've been remarkably upfront - arguably, too much so.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 6):
As far as the fleet is concerned, I didn’t really learn anything that I didn’t already know.

That's right. I don't think there is any more to know, not right now. The bulk of the E170's are going and eight or nine aircraft, a mix of A320 and E190, are coming in this year.

I imagine - but don't know - that the Q400's will stay until the situation at ASE is resolved, one way or the other.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26140 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18859 times:

Here you go. I posted this in the last thread.

Hope is to squeeze $120mil out of the operation.

$30m rental reductions on E145 + A319 fleets
$25m fleet and network changes such as riding E170 from branded
$25m in wages and benefits
$15m fuel conservation practices
$15m maintenance and airport cost reductions
$10m distribution cost and advertising spend
+
Some financial transactions to free up $70mil unrestricted cash
=
Hope to sell equity in Frontier to generate added cash.



Off course there are many variables out there - crude cost, upset pilot force, other airline responses, general economy, willingness of others to follow/accept the plan..



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 18738 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
crude cost,

OIl will b at $79 by Nov 30. U heard it here first. I have some day to day interaction with our oil company here and they tell me the same (they think $75 actually)....The oil market is adequately supplied, it is the speculators driving the wild swings.

at some point the speculators will move on....some have already started already.....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinejlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18374 times:
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I noticed that DEN-PHL, for the first time, has been using A320s. Five of seven days a week appear to be A320s, and only two are A319s. Until about a week or two ago I don't ever remember seeing anything but A319s. Also in a time when Frontier seems to be reducing, PHL seems to have gone back to seven days a week. Is this a good sign for Frontier at PHL?


JLB54061
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18328 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
OIl will b at $79 by Nov 30. U heard it here first. I have some day to day interaction with our oil company here and they tell me the same (they think $75 actually)....The oil market is adequately supplied, it is the speculators driving the wild swings.

I have heard that the price won't stay much below $100 because the Middle East is not going to settle down. The only reason prices are as low as they are now is because they raised the margin to burn out the smaller oil speculators. The airlines ought to prepare for $100 as the new normal.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26140 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18177 times:

Well if fuel were to drop fast, lots of people including Frontier will still lose lots of money. Airlines have fuel hedged well into 2012 as high as the $115/bbl range.


Back to the presentation, which I had a bit extra time to look at again now that its the weekend, one thing stood out to me.

Frontier already as is, is quite cost competitive. In the chart comparing JetBlue, Airtran and SWA with Frontier, has F9 right in the middle of pact for CASM ex fuel. Just shifting to larger E190s and A320s will see this further decline without having to beat the other $100mil out of the operation.
Where Frontier fails in relative terms is Total RASM, being the weakest amongst the bunch, to a tune of over a 10% handicap to its peer averages. Much attention to revenue and building yields is needed - which alas is not really even addressed in "the plan". Seems to me focusing only on one side of the ledger and attacking cost might be futile if not overly difficult without looking at the revenue side equally.

Also one other thing noted was F9 had quite poor on-time performance in Q1 - mere 68% on D5 and 73.8% on DOT A15. This in itself has to cost money due missed connections, crew times etc. As Doug Parker once conceded at US Air, nothing can be more expensive than running a poor ontime operation.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18169 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Much attention to revenue and building yields is needed - which alas is not really even addressed in "the plan".

One thing they discussed previously is limiting the reducing the number of tickets purchased externally. In addition, they are working to get more Classic/Classic Plus Fares sold, which is where they build a revenue premium. You are correct though, that going forward, Revenue needs to become a greater focus for sure. Yet, their revenue Q1 was higher than Q2 for Frontier, costs just outweighed it. It's a two pronged attack, and I agree, they need to focus on both.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26140 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18139 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 13):
Yet, their revenue Q1 was higher than Q2 for Frontier,

Well whole industry is seeing double digit revenue increases over 2010. There have been what 14 or so odd fare increases just this year.
So basic YoY comps are not very helpful. A better measure might be how you are doing compared to your peers, if they are out pacing you or what. Even low ball Spirit managed to generate a higher TRASM then F9 when stage length adjusted.

The more I look at things, Frontier has more of a revenue problem then a cost problem. Sure things like individual market pressures (eg MKE) weigh things down, however on a broader sense the airline needs to reposition and keenly focus on revenues via a combination of things such as routes flown, frequencies offered, market capacity, fare levels offered to maximize yields. Part of the answer might be to invest in some proper revenue management and planning tools. After all Frontier is not some small 20-airplane airline any longer and plays in the same rough and tumble game SWA, Delta and any other major does.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18126 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Much attention to revenue and building yields is needed - which alas is not really even addressed in "the plan".

Whoa - I think there is some misunderstanding about the nature and purpose of "the plan."

This was not a presentation to investors, this was not intended as a comprehensive analysis of the business model.

This was about one specific issue - how they achieve the cuts that the BOD has requested.

mariner

[Edited 2011-06-04 11:38:30]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18122 times:

Is there a way to find out bookings of the newest routes that are starting up here this month and next? It'd be interesting to find out how successful some of these have been so far. Routes such as (I believe) TYS, FSD, and PVU? It's also very surprised that these are on such larger aircraft as well.

What's with some of the cutdown at MKE? Sorry folks, catching up here  



Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18103 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):

Well if fuel were to drop fast, lots of people including Frontier will still lose lots of money. Airlines have fuel hedged well into 2012 as high as the $115/bbl range.

Why did they quickly terminate most of their MKE-west coast flying for summer at the rise of fuel then, if it was substantially hedged through the summer? What % of their fuel is hedged?



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18090 times:
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Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 17):
Why did they quickly terminate most of their MKE-west coast flying for summer at the rise of fuel then, if it was substantially hedged through the summer? What % of their fuel is hedged?

Frontier is not heavily fuel hedged. Last I heard it was only about 10% through summer.

As BB keeps pointing out, hedging is expensive and risky, and airlines like Allegiant don't do it and US Airways has stopped.

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ai...rs-says-price-is-going-down-2010-9

"But US Airways hasn't hedged for two years, the only major airline to take the strategy, execs said at a Platts Conference. So far the strategy has paid off during a period of low volatility."

mariner

[Edited 2011-06-04 11:56:15]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinephxmkeflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18082 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
$25m in wages and benefits

Go ahead and flame me for saying it, but it definetly appears that the promise BB made in his "Undercover Boss" appearance to restore wage levels within three years to pre CH. 11 levels is/was nothing more than another miscalculated PR stunt. It's hard to respect a CEO who gets caught up in the moment and provides false hope such as BB did, especially on a nationally televised primetime television show for all to see. For him to make such a promise to his employee's is truly irresponsible when he knows first hand the vast amount of uncertainties associated with the airline industry. This one example illustrates why so many have disdain for BB/Republic, he is an intelligent man, no doubt, but he is a hard individual to RESPECT as a leader.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18057 times:

Quoting phxmkeflyer (Reply 19):
miscalculated PR stunt

He took the plan to restore wages to the board. They rejected it. It would be hard for any board to increase wages right now. Republic's would not do it. He has spoken about it several times in his letters.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26140 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18057 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
This was about one specific issue - how they achieve the cuts that the BOD has requested.

I doubt the BoD asked for anything to be cut, but instead simply asked management to come up with a plan where the airline would be sustainable.
What management came back with was something nearly all focused on cost. Don't get me wrong, I think its imperative to operate as cost efficient as possible, but in Frontiers case by their own top line numbers they are already pretty darn well situated compared to their peers. Where things diverge and the handicap is, is on the revenue side of the ledger compared to peers.


Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 17):
What % of their fuel is hedged?

The RAH 10Q report does not breakdown forward positions, however in Q1 they enjoyed a $8.7mil benefit from hedge settlements.
So if the price drops appreciably in the short run, many airlines would find themselves on the wrong side of the trade, and take cash losses.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18028 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
I doubt the BoD asked for anything to be cut, but instead simply asked management to come up with a plan where the airline would be sustainable.

And gave him an indication of numbers they wanted to see. The revenue situation, especially at MKE, is already very well-known:

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/123032063.html

"U.S. Department of Transportation data for the fourth quarter of 2010 show that the average airfare out of Milwaukee dropped lower than the average at 93 other U.S. airports. Mitchell's average fare was $98 less than the average fare at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, and $78 less than the nation's average fare."

Which revenue situation - at MKE - was addressed by BB, at least in overview, if not in detail, at least in the presentation I saw.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18018 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 20):
He took the plan to restore wages to the board. They rejected it. It would be hard for any board to increase wages right now. Republic's would not do it. He has spoken about it several times in his letters.

As I see it, they haven't yet rejected it (though I am sure they will).They just haven't approved a budget yet. Until one is approved, and we see what if the wage increase is in it (doubtful), it still hasn't been rejected.


User currently offlinephxmkeflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17997 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 20):
He took the plan to restore wages to the board. They rejected it. It would be hard for any board to increase wages right now. Republic's would not do it. He has spoken about it several times in his letters.

Which only points to his POOR leadership.

Either A.) BB made the promise of restoring wages when he knew that the BoD would reject his nationally televised proposal or B.) BB was too oblivious to the fact that such a proposal was NOT realistic. Whether it was A or B, Bedford is way in over his head with F9/YX and makes unsound decisions one after another, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the PR/communications to his employee's and marketing of the F9 subsidiary. There is no other more crystal clear example of this than his promise on "Undercover Boss".

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 20):
He has spoken about it several times in his letters.

I'm not an employee of Republic or its subsidiaries so I do not have access to his letters.


25 bjorn14 : How much do Travel Agencies get these days for selling tickets?
26 kingcavalier : BB said the show cut out the part where he said "restore pay cuts if approved by the BOD." As he called it "the magic of television." He addressed th
27 Post contains images FRNT787 : My assessment as well. It was rejected as part of the previous business plan I suppose you could say. They will likely be on board if he can prove pr
28 Post contains images adamblang : I recall it being posted in one of these threads (maybe this one? it's all a blur) that when Frontier tried to raise prices by even $3, bookings fell
29 LAXintl : Raising yield does not mean raising fares. Things like capacity control, frequency, gauge of aircraft, number of fare buckets, and how you allocate s
30 mariner : That happened very dramatically in the first three months of 2010, and the reaction was immediate and dramatic, bookings did, indeed, fall of a cliff
31 enilria : Whatever that means... I posted that you can simply search for "f9corpcomm", but I see that it has been deleted. I guess this message of financial di
32 FRNT787 : ??? They discussed a $100 million savings plan on the conference call. Conference calls are for shareholders. The original plan was to have 0 Q400s.
33 mariner : I didn't think that was so hard to understand. What a curious stretch. Ian Arthur left first time around, too, when Jeff Potter was CEO and JP was a
34 loggat : In light of the discussion on revenue management, I came across a posting from another webboard that seems to shed a not so decent light on the VP of
35 Post contains links mariner : Ah - I am always wary of simplistic views of history. I don't know Mr. Aretakis personally, but I do know some of his history and he was no element o
36 bjorn14 : The deal that fell through was that the E170/E190s couldn't get certified for ASE and F9 thought that was a too important of a market to give up.
37 Post contains images comairguycvg : Frontier starting TYS service today! Can't wait to start shooting all the animals...that is, photographing them.
38 FRNT787 : I've heard other information, about a deal with the Q400s themselves. Remember they did announce that they would terminate service to Aspen.
39 yellowtail : It can vary, but standard right now is 2-3%...though I have seen up to 6.1% for the agencies with huge sales levels. Commissions can also vary with t
40 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : F9 flight # 600 ETA into TYS is 2102 (9:02 PM) EDT http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT600 There should be enough daylight to take pix the sunset i
41 enilria : The details were only shared with the employees it appears to me which is VERY odd. I've seen no media coverage of the plan details. That makes all t
42 comairguycvg : You guessed correct! The departure back to DEN is Tues at 9:35am.
43 ERJ170 : Today, RDU says goodbye to F9.. It was a ride, that's for sure.. perhaps one day they shall return but in the meantime.. Lions, and Tigers, and Bears.
44 yellowtail : That is pretty loose utlitization. I would have guessed a 7am ish departure. Guess it allows for a 12 hour crew rest.
45 Post contains links and images mariner : Yes, there was a deal for the Q400's which fell through - bizarrely, just after they had announced the end of ASE. Which is why ASE came back. Mr. Ar
46 enilria : OK, I will revise my comment. This is the first job listed on his online resume that did not involve route planning.
47 txagkuwait : First of all - re: Vanguard. I was a Major at Command & General Staff College in Leavenworth (not far from MCI) towards the end of Vanguard. I fle
48 Post contains images mariner : Vanguard never knew how small airlines make money. In it's entire history, Vanguard was only profitable for two quarters, and both those quarters wer
49 Post contains links and images mariner : And just for fits and giggles, May was okay: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...tier-airlines-passenger-count.html "Frontier Airlines passenger co
50 Post contains links FRNT787 : "REPUBLIC STRESSES COST CUTS AS IT TRIES TO COMPETE" http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com I googled "Republic Ai
51 enilria : The route is a good one, but if you think of the overhead in parts alone of supporting a fleet of 4 planes you can imagine how quickly the lack of sc
52 Post contains links mariner : Since everyone is being so picky, FlyBe has the slightly larger (88 seat?) E175 on order - and even that is going against a general trend in European
53 Post contains links FRNT787 : Its about to be deleted because Southwest's pilots will not allow it. Flybe ordered E175s. They will have 88 seats. Virgin Blue, as mentioned before,
54 Post contains images enilria : Of course, F9 has 76 seats in their E170s, not 70, lowering CASM and fuel burn/seat. Please, it was already shrinking before the WN deal was ever ann
55 mariner : And 18 seats lowers the CASM more 6 seats does. I don't know why you've carrying this candle for the E170, but - newsflash - you're banging your head
56 knope2001 : February Frontier-branded operations capacity (Available Seat Miles in 000's ) Total System 1,113,396 seat miles All RJ flying 26,060 seat miles The R
57 Post contains images comairguycvg : And the first animal to TYS is........ the ram! FFT600 from DEN.
58 Post contains images FRNT787 : The Fleet Plan calls for 15 in Q3 and Q4. Im not too far off. There will be 17 used in Q2 and probably Q3 to backfill the E170 removals. Seems perfec
59 bjorn14 : FYI, US Bureau of Transportation Statistics reported that F9 employed 1.3% less workers in March compared to the same month last year.
60 Post contains images enilria : That's because FlyBe will have 29-30" pitch. F9 would have 80 seats with the same pitch. So, apples to apples the E175 has 10% more seats. It also ha
61 LAXintl : You realize E145 trip cost are lower then the E170 right? So if you are bleeding money (which lots of regional feeders ops do anyway) the E145 net lo
62 enilria : Here is the exact fuel burn from Form 41. I used multiple carriers and removed the outliers since F41 can be goofy. These seem pretty accurate from m
63 mariner : Not I. You're the one with that bee in your bonnet. I've never made the comparison with the E145, I don't claim to know more about it than they do. I
64 Post contains links and images mariner : Here's a fun video about the first departure from TYS - including a small zoo at the airport: http://www.wbir.com/news/article/172...es-off-with-debut
65 FRNT787 : Who ordered more A318s? Frontier? It would seem odd to blame the Republic Management for that. Except they are not permanent replacements. They are v
66 Post contains images enilria : I agree the E170s are gone. I'm only saying the E145s need to go even more than the E170s. My point was that fuel burn is often not the only decision
67 n7371f : The E70 engine, CF34-8 series is about 3.5 inches smaller in diameter than the CM34-10 series. The -10 series is also 10 to 20 inches longer.
68 mariner : Since I regard it as a sensible asset management strategy and you obviously disagree, there really is no point. However: It really isn't a good idea
69 PlanesNTrains : To be fair, the Q400 flies slower, so on a given city pair the Q400 will be flying longer than the comparable 70 seat jet. How much will depend on th
70 Post contains links FRNT787 : It is in writing for the increase you are talking about. You have referred several times to the CO birds adding to the fleet: Quote: "The eight E170
71 stratosphere : Seems like no one in this thread really addressed your question. My guess is they are so concerned with the budget they probably do not have a whole
72 enilria : I think the fuel numbers for the E190 are even worse apples to apples than it appears in my data because jetBlue is flying them abnormally long stage
73 PlanesNTrains : OH MY!!! Well, ok then!!! That makes more sense!!! Now I understand!!! Thanks for explaining!!! Have a great day!!! -Dave
74 wnflyguy : There is a new rumor going around that Republic is in talks with JetBlue about buying F9 Airbus and E190 operations. This could be the best deal for F
75 enilria : I sense some sarcasm... The cruise speed difference is only 85kt according to the specs. That's not much until you get to really long flights like SE
76 n7371f : If JetBlue wanted E-190's it wouldn't have consistently delayed deliveries on an outstanding order of over E90's still to be delivered. B6 was suppos
77 enilria : Let me preface this by saying I agree with your point, just not that one detail. If B6 could acquire planes from F9 cheaper than buying them new ther
78 FRNT787 : Like I said. SOME of the E145s are temporary. Not the whole fleet. Considering they are talking about using Q400s and additional E145s to "backfill"
79 Post contains links mariner : LOL. The other Frontier, the real one, has restarted seasonal service to GRB: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...-Denver-flights?odyssey=nav%7Che
80 wnflyguy : Had a great time hanging out with friends from NYC at JetBlue this morning in LGB. Over breakfast watching the the 7am rush and the rumor came up from
81 Post contains images mariner : I wish I had a buck for every time I've heard rumors like that on a.net. mariner
82 Post contains images enilria : The word "backfill" does not mean "temporary", it just means "replace". I presume GRB people don't need to go to DEN in the Winter to ski. Well, both
83 mariner : I don't know why Spirit would have been up for sale. It was always Oaktree's intention to bring it to IPO and make a big bunch of money - which they
84 enilria : Spirit filed for an IPO and got limited interest last Fall. They shopped NK to Republic, B6, and DL (and probably more) who all refused the price tag
85 mariner : Apart from the "shopping around" bit, none of which contradicts what I just said. mariner
86 Post contains links enilria : BTW, Oak Tree hasn't controlled the company since 2006. http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...rs-takes-over-spirit-airlines-0309
87 mariner : I'm aware of Indigo's participation - duh! - but Oaktree were the big investor who set up the model. That's why Indigo came in. mariner[Edited 2011-0
88 wnflyguy : I asked if they think this would be a wise move for B6 to make given the competition of WN and UAL? They said the time looks good due to fact they fe
89 Post contains images bjorn14 : Here's a marketing idea give free ski lessons with every ticket purchased. Winter Park, Vail, Breck/Keystone
90 ScottB : At this point, if JetBlue really wanted the Frontier assets, they might as well just buy all of Republic. The market cap is under $250 million, and t
91 Post contains links mariner : I think this needs some clarification because it isn't as simplistic as buying and selling airlines. Although Indigo became the lead investor in Spir
92 Post contains images bjorn14 : Why don't F9, B6, VX and NK all merge then we will have a mega LCC?
93 FRNT787 : Good to see an upgrade to A319. Again they have spoken several times about the E190 replacing smaller jets, meaning E170. They are ordering enough to
94 enilria : Thanks for clarifying, so instead of saying "Oak Tree hasn't controlled the company since 2006", I should have said "Oak Tree hasn't controlled the c
95 mariner : Oaktree made it very clear from when they first invested in Spirit that the strategy was to eventually take the company public. That's what happened.
96 enilria : The goal for a private company to make money and cash in with an IPO? I'm sure that was always the goal. Isn't that true for nearly every private com
97 davidlc3 : I've never understood why everyone gets stuck on a traditional merger model. B6 has been unique in their partnerships with AA, LH and others. Why not
98 loggat : The rumor I've heard is that BB and co went to NYC to meet with JB (that is a fact) and that the topic of discussion was for JB to try and get RAH to
99 enilria : That is very possible. I'm only saying that B6 will not take financial risk for DEN/MKE by merging. A code share would make sense. Yeah, not a rumor.
100 loggat : Yeah, that's not what I said. Try reading it again. Again, you're the one making this into a merger/acquisition issue. What I heard was simply a meet
101 enilria : I was agreeing with you that I'm sure no agreement was reached. Actually, now it is your turn to read. It was wnflyguy. I keep saying it makes little
102 loggat : Ok, I'll try writing it a different way... B6 was not trying to get more delivery slots. They were trying to get RAH to take THEIR delivery slots. Th
103 enilria : Same difference, B6 doesn't want any more airplanes. I'm sure RJET was trying to get rid of close in deliveries or trade for later ones. B6 doesn't w
104 Post contains links mariner : That may have moved to FLL but Spirit was still flying - big time - to the Caribbean before Indigo came along. Spirit made a major Caribbean expansio
105 mariner : I disagree. BB doesn't want to sell Frontier - he has wanted, from before Day 1, to bring in other investors and eventually to spin Frontier off as a
106 enilria : Deny it if you want, but RJET has attempted to sell F9 to other airlines repeatedly. Other airlines aren't going to "invest" with a partner and be a
107 mariner : Well (a) show me a link (b) other airlines aren't the only potential investors and and (c) the second part relates to the Oaktree/Indigo issue. You r
108 enilria : Didn't say they didn't try to get other investors, I'm sure he is trying to sell to anybody who will buy it. I guess they just waited to implement it
109 Post contains links mariner : To some extent, that is true, and for a reason that I have previously given and you have acknowledged - Oaktree was the what, Indigo was the how. How
110 mariner : BB has publicly said he's had other investors hanging around since before the acquisition - to participate. As he has suggested before (especially to
111 carsair04 : On its first quarter 2011 earnings call, Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (the "Company") announced a program to restructure the Company's subsidiary, F
112 mariner : There is more than one way to skin a cat and since I imagine this "minority interest" issue will come up again, it may be worth exploring. Under Aust
113 n7371f : Wow. For anyone who was around and remembers, similar loyalty and spirit in this group of Frontier pilots to the then-ALPA led pilots at the original
114 Post contains links and images Tigerguy : A brief look at the lighter side of the news--the hoopla surrounding the launch of DEN-TYS http://www.wbir.com/news/article/172...es-off-with-debut-De
115 F9Animal : Very happy to see the pilots help out! I think it will benefit all work groups, especially profit sharing.
116 pilotfox : For those interested, another E145 is in the new paint. N266SK, I think it may be a Bear Cub.
117 mariner : It's a fascinating deal, F9Animal, what BB always said he might do if the pilot issues got too complex: And I'm intrigued about the commitment to new
118 point2point : This will get the pilots and other employees motivated. Let's cross our fingers that management can do what it needs to as well, and these two acts b
119 FRNT787 : Also of note, in his latest letter describing the restructuring: There will be no wage concessions by employees. Only Benefits are affected as well as
120 kingcavalier : FAPA must vote on the amendment by June 17. I believe it will be an affirmative vote for many reasons. A no vote would possibly mean no restructuring
121 point2point : WOW! This is basically unheard of with today's big execs. Most of them run companies into the ground, then bail out with unsaid millions in a golden
122 carsair04 : Didn't Sean just take a job as CEO as Pinnacle Airlines Corp? He was great with Frontier, I personally really liked him. I'll be honest, I am not a b
123 kingcavalier : I believe they plan on keeping BB as CEO of the new New Frontier. The other high profile jobs such as COO will be unique to F9. I wish Menke would've
124 F9Animal : BB obviously has values, integrity, and honesty. I think most of that stems to his religious beliefs. While many have taken the opportunity to swing
125 point2point : If at some point after 2014, RAH is a minority holder, then a majority would be able to select a new CEO, as well as other officers. Menke would be a
126 mariner : Maybe. If RAH becomes the minority holder, they may also be the biggest block holder and they may structure the rest of it in ways that still allow R
127 Post contains images point2point : In the normal world, well.... In the airline world, you are correct..... Maybe.......
128 HPRamper : We've seen that yields took a dive with FL's incredibly low fares from MKE. Is it foreseeable that the WN acquisition will result in at least practic
129 Post contains images mariner : I guess there are examples in the normal world of a minority owner controlling a corporation, but I can't think of any off the top of my head - excep
130 Post contains links and images point2point : I have no objections to MKE per se, have yet to visit there and I'm sure it a neat place. But... IF... FL/WN find some sanity there, and IF.... the l
131 bahadir : This is nothing but FAPA pilots to hang on to their glorified Airbus aircraft that they think they deserve more than some pimple faced RAH kids. Also
132 Post contains images point2point : Just by simple math, RAH could own 49.999999% of the stock and be a minority holder. Then all they would need is another 0.000002%, and that would br
133 yellowtail : Well MBJ was on their list before they ran into the hole in the budget. There are a couple of high yield destinations closer than LIM that are popula
134 bjorn14 : Huh? If anything the BOD should be kicking themselves in the arse for approving the purchase(s). You can always say no the CEO.
135 mariner : I would be a wee bitty wary of some of those figures. Frontier tried DEN-YVR and it was a turkey except in high summer season. DEN-YYC was a money lo
136 Post contains images mariner : Frontier flew STL-MBJ last winter, and I guess it may come back. There may even be more such routes. It's just that they flew it for Apple Vacations.
137 Post contains images point2point : I was being somewhat aberrant with that remark. Yes, I know, but it is the DEN site so.... My good laptop went kaput (I'm using a real cheap one here
138 mcg : Ford Motor, Ford family is a minority owner but their shares give them majority voting rights. I think their shares each carry 10 votes, regular shar
139 tztristar500 : For those interested, A320-214, N214FR (Cliff the mountain goat) delivered to MKE on Friday, June 10. The last firm A320-214, N216FR is scheduled for
140 Post contains images enilria : When I heard BB utter the word "stakeholders" in the last thread I posted that this was the real goal of this $100m restructuring. Here it is in blue
141 adamblang : He said as much from the get-go. Probably tongue in cheek, but you're putting words in Mariner's mouth. You know I've defended you a few times when I
142 enilria : Fair enough. Yes, I suggested that! I said "any time soon". Meaning there is clearly no imminent shrink of MKE coming. If anything, an increase as Sk
143 knope2001 : The jury is still very much out on St Louis – it remains showing on the AirTran website as Skywest after labor day, but all inventory is zeroed out
144 knope2001 : Great set of points...it definitely makes this an interesting topic! One additional one which comes to mind. How much FL traffic comes from GDS sites
145 adamblang : I'm citing you to add to make a point about your own point... Maybe it's time for more coffee.
146 Post contains images enilria : Very true, although the counter point is that WN.com is a much cheaper distribution channel. The counter point is that WN does so much national adver
147 mariner : No, (a) I didn't mean Indigo instead of Oaktree and (b) FAPA does not now control Frontier, since we don't know the percentages of the other stakehol
148 Post contains links and images point2point : Hey, Cranky Flier has an article today suggesting that VX buy F9, and how good this could work. http://crankyflier.com/ Maybe he's been reading our bl
149 Post contains images yellowtail : Judging by some of our cranky members I would say cranky flier is probably a contributing poster.
150 wnflyguy : Last week while hanging out with some friends at B6 we talked about the E190 trade of with B6 and RJET. B6 would take all the current E190 flying F9 f
151 commavia : That seems like a disastrous one-way ticket to liquidation for both airlines - which, while I'm not predicting it, doesn't seem all that inconceivabl
152 Post contains links mariner : Having read various reactions to this restructure, and in this thread, it seems to me the point is being missed. Republic To Unload Frontier (by Atlwe
153 adamblang : I wouldn't be surprised to see Republic own something along the lines of 49% of Frontier and the FAPA own a few percent on top of that. FAPA backs Re
154 FutureUScapt : Not sure if that has already been mentioned in this thread or not, but F9 will be ending its OMA-LAX/SAN flights on 13Aug and 14Aug, respectively. Tho
155 SANFan : Yup, Mariner had the following comment 3 days ago: No further comment from me. bb
156 Post contains images SurfandSnow : Too bad, although given the state that it's in F9 probably should not be operating long, thin flights like these that overfly its hubs. We lose our n
157 mariner : Oh, well, I will. At this stage of the game, both routes are a suspension, SANFan, and both related to the price of fuel. Frontier has said that both
158 F9Animal : I am sure many airline CEO's wish they could! Usually it is not the best of times for making money. But yes, I do recall him saying this.
159 enilria : This is all being discussed in the other thread, but to me the 49.9% contrivance is merely an excuse to blame the pilots for the company's demise if
160 kingcavalier : I don't know. I would think a minority investor has much less risk than buying F9 outright and then trying to run it all. Wasn't Perseus the original
161 knope2001 : Although a great deal of the net fleet reduction impact is already part of the schedule, not everything is. The A320 deliveries and retained Q400 fly
162 enilria : Completely disagree. You would put your money into an entity losing tons of money and defer running it to the same people who are now desperately try
163 Post contains images mariner : Perseus was an interesting story. I'm still working on that one. mariner
164 Post contains links mariner : There are views being expressed in the other thread that just about everything the various Frontier CEO's have done is wrong, JP, even SM, by some her
165 Post contains images FRNT787 : Thanks for that. Most people seem to have forgotten the events that brought us to where we are now. Im sure many in the other thread going right now
166 bjorn14 : If F9 is sold/spun off what management goes with them, if any? BTW, can someone give me a active F9 fleet summary? I've lost track.
167 tztristar500 : Hard to say as much of its integrated into RAH, but at least the basic positions related to the F9 operating certificate. As of today, the aircraft d
168 bjorn14 : Thanks. So all the Embraers are on the other RAH AOCs?
169 MostlyAir : Correct the E170s, E190s and Q400s are on the Republic Airlines certificate, while the E45/35s are on the Chautauqua certificate.
170 Post contains links adamblang : The fleet breakout here is fairly up to date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Airlines
171 n7371f : As a footnote, the 318's are owned aircraft (with mortgages). Republic will realize some cash net benefit when the sales go through. Not a lot, as th
172 Post contains links and images mariner : Step 1 of the restructure approved: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18300527 "Frontier Airlines pilots have overwhelmingly ratified an agree
173 mariner : And with Step 1 approved, Step 2 falls into place. From the press release: "As a result of these accomplishments, our Board will move forward with it
174 FRNT787 : Indeed. I expected it to happen, and like you, I am interested in the fact that 58 voted against it. Time to keep moving forward...
175 sunking737 : Yes it is, and time to stop all the negativity.
176 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Here is the official statement from the airline http://media.frontierairlines.com/ar...icle_id=5272&view_id=1290&
177 bjorn14 : 58 out of 700 isn't too bad. Lot's of reasons to vote against it I suppose.
178 Post contains images mariner : I'd hope for that, too, Sunking, but this is a.net and I'm not holding my breath. In view of all that has happened this week, and all that has been s
179 mcg : The statement about additional liquidity is confusing: So are the board members, or the companies they represent, investing an additional $70 million?
180 rj777 : What I would like to know is what does the "new planes" part entail?
181 MikeFromMKE : I believe it was stated in the Q1 conference call that they would be seeking a loan with their inventory of spare parts as collateral. This is probab
182 F9Animal : The board is releasing $70 million into Frontier.
183 Post contains images Tigerguy : Well, one person's negativity is another person's objectivity... Anywho, I wonder if (when?) this will make its way into one of those update letters
184 F9Animal : I am very happy to see the pilots step up and help F9. I am also impressed with Bedford and team being aggressive to save $120 million dollars per yea
185 mcg : What does this mean, 'the Board' doesn't have $70 million; they are either finding a new investor with $70 million or the companies they represent on
186 mariner : RAH - Republic Airways Holdings - has money and the BOD has agreed to release $70 million to Frontier. I don't know they will book it, I assume as an
187 Post contains images mariner : It's all been a bit heavy around here the last little while, and I am more than ready to have some fun again. So - I am a bit miffed that two of my fa
188 mcg : Thanks for the explaination.
189 PlanePainter : Would be nice to see the frog around again. I am stumped at why they have Carl the Coyote on a 319 (that is still in sevice) and on a new A320 (N214F
190 timf : Has anyone seen N214FR in person yet? Frontier had posted on Facebook that N214FR was Cliff the Mountain Goat and Wikipedia originally said this as w
191 F9Animal : Yeah, I see that some individuals have really gotten quiet since the good news! I wonder why that is? Oh well, I guess we will see them back in actio
192 tztristar500 : Yes, no 212. N212FR is already reserved to an aircraft that had crashed in 88, but appears to still be assigned, so why it was skipped, same with N21
193 Post contains images kingcavalier : Yea, F9 said it was supposed to be Cliff. Maybe it will show up on an E190. Here is a not so great pic of N214FR with Carl.
194 Post contains links mariner : Could be, so they don't have to dip into cash. But whether it's a loan to Frontier, as the DIP loan was, or being regarded as an investment - I don't
195 timf : Thanks for the confirmation. I wonder what the plan is for N920FR - if it is leaving the fleet or getting a repaint soon.
196 tztristar500 : Yes, Toulouse has been screwing them up that they were pealing off on the ferry flight over so to fix that and save some money, the last four were no
197 Flaps : It is indeed a bear cub.Well, its a bear anyway. Didnt look too cubbish though. I saw it at PIT on Friday evening. Had a great angle on it against th
198 knope2001 : The September schedule has three fewer lines off RJ flying at Milwaukee. The key changes related to this include ending service to ATW, SDF and BDL. S
199 SLCPilot : Good news!? Really? Ask the pilots who voted if they think this is good news! Borrowing against spare parts is a desperate act. The speculation on an
200 Post contains links and images timf : N266SK has the same tail as this aircraft did. View Large View MediumPhoto © Ben Wang
201 Flaps : Yep. Thats it.
202 FRNT787 : Such as losing money? They have already done that. Thats why they went through what they just did. They do not want to lose any more. So instead of t
203 SLCPilot : Everybody likes Frontier....good enough....I do too. But what company are we talking about? RAH is acting at it's benefit as an asset management comp
204 MikeFromMKE : While it is true that F9 would be able to go under without RAH following it, RAH would not benefit in the slightest from F9 going under. F9 would not
205 dfanucci : I was under the impression that the pilots voted with close to 700 yes and 58 no. Am I missing something here?
206 MSYtristar : I know it's easier said than done, but it sure would be nice if F9 kept a round-trip connection between MSY and DEN while the nonstop is not operating
207 txagkuwait : I don't think RAH has a plan to make Frontier healthy. It is beginning to look like they haven't a clue as to what they are doing with respect to pre
208 adamblang : This whole $120m restructuring is a plan to make Frontier, and therefore Republic, healthy. Sure they do, at least until December 31, 2014, give or t
209 Post contains links and images mariner : Cutting an annual $120 million in costs is a pretty good start. I'm not sure what is going on here, because the naysayers should be cheering. Many pr
210 MikeFromMKE : We've still yet to have proof of this. F9 even has employees in CWA where they do handling for AA and F9 doesn't even fly there. At this point what w
211 SLCPilot : Yes, you are missing something huge. Go up to any F9 pilot, who voted yes, who voted no, or who didn't vote a all and ask him if the vote (or even th
212 mariner : I've spoken to a couple of Frontier pilots - or had emails from them. They didn't tell me to "f" off. Quite the reverse. They gladly shared with me F
213 SLCPilot : I believe you. And that's the part that makes this so hard. The people of F9 are hard working, and positive, but they are in a game, for better or wo
214 mariner : In fact I was a stranger to those pilots who shared the news. They found me out - I never ask how - because they knew of my interest and wanted to sh
215 dfanucci : I'll have my chance this week.... As a real quick FYI, I talked with two F9 Pilots leading up to the Vote, and both were more than willing to talk...
216 mariner : Based on some of the responses, here and elsewhere, it seems that some do not fully understand the effect of the events of last week. Clear Blue Sky:
217 kingcavalier : If you're talking about the yield numbers for WN in DEN I was also shared some figures. I cannot provide the link, but from what I saw WN's yield in
218 F9Animal : Every pilot I have talked to has been very happy to see that F9 is still around, and they had not one problem with voting yes. I did not get one sing
219 SurfandSnow : Sad to see, but I guess the weaker ERJ stuff has to go if the airline ever wants to get up to a primarily "mainline" operation from MKE. Then again,
220 FlyPNS1 : Had he been proactive, he would have made these cuts BEFORE the airline was hemorraghing money! I'm sure they were as they avoided seniority integrat
221 mariner : A few other airlines should probably be making changes to their model, too, but don't see it happening - which makes BB first in line. mariner
222 FlyPNS1 : Being first doesn't mean you are being proactive. You're just first among a bunch of reactive players. Though few airlines are performing as poorly a
223 mariner : BB has been signaling the possibility of this since before the acquisition, and repeated it six months ago, but some major structural changes are only
224 knope2001 : FNT carries a fair amount of business traffic as a high-yield alternative to the hyper-yield Delta fares to DTW. It is fortunate to be well positione
225 MikeFromMKE : It had a healthy 86.8% LF for March, and seems to be doing well enough that they added the MCI flight. I actually just booked this route (SAT-MKE) fo
226 loggat : Did they? That's news to me. I thought I would've heard about this from my Union reps. The only way they can avoid the integration is if RAH cedes 51
227 F9Animal : But remember, the pilots can also sell their share of the airline. They have more leverage in the future of the company. Hindsight is 20/20, and it w
228 mke717spotter : Its pretty disappointing that MKE-ATW, such a historical route, is getting axed. I know that MKE-SDF/BDL were already part of the YX cutbacks in 2008
229 FRNT787 : I would believe this claim, except virtually every plane Frontier will be operating at the end of the year was either A. Already in the Fleet (Airbus
230 Post contains images point2point : I'm rooting for F9 to pull through this predicament and become a healthy, stand alone airline. However, I just don't see BB as the person to complete
231 mariner : If you're going to make an assertion like that, I think you should spell them out. And - perhaps - look at the actions of others. mariner
232 bjorn14 : But isn't he the CEO at Wizz?
233 mariner : No. COO. mariner
234 Post contains images point2point : Okay – how about 10 of them, not necessarily in order of importance: 1. Branding – when the F9 was kept as the name of the new airline, that’s
235 mariner : Most of these points have been covered here before in great detail, but I'll play the game. 1. They were discovering that the separate brands weren't
236 mariner : And since you added something, I'll respond. BB gave SM a bonus worth $1 million plus for joining RAH. Yet still SM resigned - his choice. mariner
237 Post contains images point2point : I guess that I can agree with basically what you state. However, I think that you can agree that there is something called marketing and public perce
238 point2point : Yes, SM had his million, and who knows what the real story is, but one aspect of this could be that he couldn't stay around and watch all of his succ
239 intheair10 : This is old news but Menke didn't want to play second fiddle to BB. His management style was where the employees actually respect him and vice-versal
240 Post contains links point2point : Not if the majority of shares are sold outside of RAH and there is new management at the helm. However, I'm unclear as to what the legal status of F9
241 FRNT787 : Could be that Menke's ego couldn't cut it either. Both men have proven themselves as CEO material. They should both be CEOs. Now they are. Thats a lo
242 point2point : Who said anything about a spending a lot of marketing dollars and trying to outmarket WN? Marketing is not all about spending money on advertising. P
243 Humberside : What a difference 11 years makes. I have an ATW timetable from Fall 2000/Winter 2001. Back then MKE service was five times a day Mon-Fri, including 2
244 GentFromAlaska : Concur. IMO MKE was not the best choice for a second hub, I shrug at the thought of a potential crippling major Winter weather event in DEN and MKE s
245 intheair10 : Link? Even if an investment company takes over that does not change single carrier status nor the IMSL.
246 PlanePainter : Good P.R. and bet the media will be all over this.
247 point2point : I have a feeling that this is pilot error and not at all the tone of F9 or RAH. Still, it's up to management of F9 and get on top of this NOW if not
248 ScottB : Perhaps it is because those who do not blindly cheerlead are branded as purveyors of negativity: The evidence is circumstantial, but conceptually it
249 kingcavalier : I agree and it could be because of WN that F9 cannot increase yields, although they are steadily rising. I guess my point is WN has not had a scorche
250 ScottB : I would guess that it depends on where they see the yield trends going. Southwest works with a very long-term outlook in their planning, and while th
251 FlyPNS1 : Since WN arrived in DEN, F9 has filed BK once and is now once again bleeding money and begging for concessions from it's employees. The only reason F
252 mariner : Indeed. And Milwaukee had to blame someone for Midwest's trroubles. It surely wasn't going to blame itself. I don't think that marketing can do all t
253 mariner : What does the appointment of a COO have to do with that? I try to avoid pilot stuff. It will play out as it will play out. Yes. It was the forward bo
254 mariner : As to "dumb investors", Northwest and TPG put $400 plus million into Midwest, and TPG increased its holding. NWA wrote down it's holding to zero valu
255 JBo : As a fan - and former employee of - Midwest I would have much rather seen the brand name laid to rest than bastardized into Frontier's regional brand
256 FlyPNS1 : But where is the plan to address this problem? BB's current plan just cuts costs, but does nothing to address the value add problem (revenue problem
257 mariner : I dunno. Maybe the things that BB says are going to be announced in the next few weeks will provide some answers. Who knows - maybe the news of the "
258 Post contains links mariner : I think this is interesting and I am pleased to see Frontier on the list: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-to-buy-waste-derived-biofuel.html "A
259 n7371f : N920FR is leased from GECAS with a expiration date of 6/29/15
260 F9Animal : The biggest hurdle was getting the airline to make profits in a high fuel environment. With much of that hurdle being jumped, I am sure we will see "
261 Post contains links LipeGIG : Ok, with 260 replies (now 261) this thread become too long and might not be so good for members with low speed connections (such as dial up). We are o
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