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Avianca Taca May Order Up To 100 NB  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5361 times:
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As the title states, Avianca Taca Holding SA may order up to 100 Airbus or Boeing narrowbodies.

Avianca Taca Holding SA, owner of Colombia’s biggest airline by sales, is in talks on ordering between 50 and 100 single-aisle planes as South America’s economic growth spurs travel.

The carrier is considering Airbus SAS’s A320neo, as well as Boeing Co. (BA) and Bombardier Inc. planes, German Efromovich, whose company took over Avianca in 2004, said in an interview yesterday in Singapore. It plans to make a decision by year-end, he said.


Source

Also from the article the carrier is waiting to see whether Boeing will bring an all new design as a 737 replacement and they are talking to Mitsubishi Aircraft Corp about an order to replace their Fokkers.


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15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

This has been cooking for a few weeks on colombian forums. Good for them. What has been said is that the order will be announced in Paris, but they are giving a much broader timeframe here.

The Fokker 100s are already being replaced by A318s on 5 year leases. Any other jet ordered in this category will be used for expansion and ultimately replacement of the babybuses and the E190s in the mid--term. I guess this was a misquote from the journalist, as before the A318s were available the initial idea was indeed to keep the F100 longer and replace it with the CS100 or the MRJ.

I guess it makes sense that they will order A320NEO or the new boeing programme (chances being mostly of the NEO taking this order), and for current single-aisle expansion they will settle with the remaining A32S orders and acquiring used aircraft.

What has been kept in the dark for a long period is the regional fleet replacement order. The Fokker 50s, but mostly the ATRs at TACA Regional, are getting quite old.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
before the A318s were available the initial idea was indeed to keep the F100 longer and replace it with the CS100 or the MRJ.


Sorry to be off-topic, but do you know why this decision was made? AFAIK, the A318 is not exactly known for its efficiency, I believe the F100 despite being older also seems more fuel efficient.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8502 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4797 times:
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Avianca has a huge fleet of A320 that are new, why do they need A320 neo so soon ? Where is AV-Taca going to fly an additional 50-100 A320's ? Taca cover the USA well from their central American hubs.

User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
The Fokker 50s, but mostly the ATRs at TACA Regional, are getting quite old.


Most of the ATRs involved with TACA REGIONAL are more than 15 years old.
However, this possible new order does not replace such 50-seater planes.
The mentioned turboprop planes are suitable for regional routes such as: PAC-SJO, LCE-RTB, SAP-RTB, SAP-TGU and so on.
On the other hand, the SAL-LIR and GUA-FRS sectors where the ATR is active nowadays may deserve an upgrade for any jet-line service and depending on the demand later.




.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Avianca Taca Holding SA may order up to 100 Airbus or Boeing narrowbodies.


That means no more E90s in the future...


Regards.

[Edited 2011-06-06 06:56:42]


"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10004 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 2):
Sorry to be off-topic, but do you know why this decision was made? AFAIK, the A318 is not exactly known for its efficiency, I believe the F100 despite being older also seems more fuel efficient.

The A318 was chosen because the aircraft were available immediately. As they already have a large fleet of A320/319 aircraft, it made sense for them to lease those A318's that were sitting idle doing nothing. If I remember correctly AV also got a good deal out of those A318's too.

A388


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

Wow, 50-100 is a lot. I guess it makes sense if they spread the deliveries over a long period of time.

I would imagine that AV is happy with the A32Xs. TA seems to be happy with theirs too. Therefore, I think it is highly likely that the A320NEO will be chosen. If so, good for Airbus!!!

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
The A318 was chosen because the aircraft were available immediately. As they already have a large fleet of A320/319 aircraft, it made sense for them to lease those A318's that were sitting idle doing nothing. If I remember correctly AV also got a good deal out of those A318's too.

Correct. They are the ex-MX birds. I am pretty sure AV is leasing them at a very attractive price.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
If I remember correctly AV also got a good deal out of those A318's too.

AV will also receive 5 A-318s from LAN this year, plus 5 more A-318s next year, along with LAN's last 5 A-318s during 2013. Airbus brokered the deal last year when LAN placed their orders for over 80 A320 family a/c last year. Thus, AV will not be leasing LAN's ex-A-318s directly from LAN.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10004 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
Correct. They are the ex-MX birds. I am pretty sure AV is leasing them at a very attractive price.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
AV will also receive 5 A-318s from LAN this year, plus 5 more A-318s next year, along with LAN's last 5 A-318s during 2013. Airbus brokered the deal last year when LAN placed their orders for over 80 A320 family a/c last year. Thus, AV will not be leasing LAN's ex-A-318s directly from LAN.

Looks like AV will have a decent fleet of A318's in the coming years. That is good, especially for spotters because the A318 isn't an aircraft you see a lot at airports around the world.

A388


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
That is good, especially for spotters because the A318 isn't an aircraft you see a lot at airports around the world.

Currently, LA deploys the A-318s on certain domestic routes in Chile, and on regional routes between Chile and both Argentina and Uruguay. They no longer operate in Ecuador. I really enjoyed flying on them between UIO and GYE. And also between GYE and the Galápagos!


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10004 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Currently, LA deploys the A-318s on certain domestic routes in Chile, and on regional routes between Chile and both Argentina and Uruguay. They no longer operate in Ecuador. I really enjoyed flying on them between UIO and GYE. And also between GYE and the Galápagos!

I can imagine that, I was invited to go on board at the inaugural flights of AV's first A318 flight and the cabin looks and feels wider, typical to Airbus aircraft. In my opinion it is a big improvement over the F100.

A388


User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

This information was posted into the Colombian aviation thread one month ago and related to the expansion of the AV-TA plans:


TYPE...........2011.......2012.......2013.......2014........2015......TOTAL

E-190...........2............0............0............0..............0...........2
A-319...........0............7............3............4..............0..........14
A-320...........9............7............5............5..............4..........25
A-330...........2............3............0............0..............0...........5
B-787......................................4............................8..........12

TOTAL.........13..........17............12..........9..............12

AV-TA undoubtedly tends for the A320 family than any other aircraft type.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 2):
Sorry to be off-topic, but do you know why this decision was made? AFAIK, the A318 is not exactly known for its efficiency, I believe the F100 despite being older also seems more fuel efficient.

The A318 is perfect for high runways, like BOG and a lot of other colombian airports because its "overpowered". The F100 fleet began falling apart and spares were becoming very expensive. Plus, they got relatively new aircraft, common with the rest of the fleet, at a very attractive list price. This helped reduce the fleet types to three: A330, A32S and Fokker 50s. A year ago, B767s, B757s, MD-83s and F100s were also flying.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 4):
However, this possible new order does not replace such 50-seater planes

Indeed. What I said is that they have kept quiet about it.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
Avianca has a huge fleet of A320 that are new, why do they need A320 neo so soon ? Where is AV-Taca going to fly an additional 50-100 A320's ? Taca cover the USA well from their central American hubs.

Well, Latin America is expanding at a fast pace in the aviation market, they could easily use these aircraft for extra expansion combining that with replacements (they took some older MX birds, some of TA's are also not new at all).

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
AV will also receive 5 A-318s from LAN this year, plus 5 more A-318s next year, along with LAN's last 5 A-318s during 2013. Airbus brokered the deal last year when LAN placed their orders for over 80 A320 family a/c last year. Thus, AV will not be leasing LAN's ex-A-318s directly from LAN.

AV Brasil is actually going to receive those A318s, not AV. It is different as AV Brasil does not belong to the AviancaTaca group and operates as a completely separate carrier, even though they codeshare and they operate some flights on partnership with AV Colombia and their products are similar. Much like BA with SunAir of scandinavia and Comair in South Africa. So these A318s coming form LAN don't affect AviancaTaca's fleetplan whatsoever.

Another story would be if Brasil finally allows further international investment into it's airlines.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 12):
AV Brasil is actually going to receive those A318s, not AV. It is different as AV Brasil does not belong to the AviancaTaca group and operates as a completely separate carrier, even though they codeshare and they operate some flights on partnership with AV Colombia and their products are similar.

I know that they are going to Oceanair. So O6 is not part of the Synergy Group? BTW, how many different brands operate under the Synergy Group?

[Edited 2011-06-06 12:52:47]

User currently offlinepdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 12):
AV Brasil does not belong to the AviancaTaca group and operates as a completely separate carrier

AV Brasil is not directly owned by Avianca-TACA. However, Avianca-TACA does own a purchase option for AV Brasil. The purchase option was written by Synergy, one of the primary shareholders of Avianca-TACA. This purchase option gives Avianca-TACA the right to acquire AV Brasil from Synergy, presumably in exchange for greater equity in Avianca-TACA.

On a separate note not related to corporate governance per se, Avianca-TACA has stated AV Brasil / OceanAir will join the Star Alliance sometime after AV and TA join in 2012.

It is clear Avianca-TACA sees AV Brasil [and AeroGal for that matter] as integral parts of its operation and will fully absorb its operations in the future.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 12):
Another story would be if Brasil finally allows further international investment into it's airlines.

Brasil is expected to increase foreign ownership thresholds for domestic carriers from 25% to 49% in the near future. Even before Brasil ratifies a law expanding foreign ownership in its domestic carriers, there is argument for claiming Avianca-TACA is, indeed, a "Brazilian" company, due to the fact the sole shareholder of one of its primary shareholders, Synergy SA is a Brazilian citizen.

One can only assume Eframovich and Avianca-TACA have hired many, many lawyers in Brazil and elsewhere to assess this possibility.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Quoting pdpsol (Reply 14):
AV Brasil is not directly owned by Avianca-TACA. However, Avianca-TACA does own a purchase option for AV Brasil. The purchase option was written by Synergy, one of the primary shareholders of Avianca-TACA. This purchase option gives Avianca-TACA the right to acquire AV Brasil from Synergy, presumably in exchange for greater equity in Avianca-TACA.

They have already stated that they are not going to go through with that purchase option. Avianca (not the holding) currently owns 20% of the airline directly.

Quoting pdpsol (Reply 14):
It is clear Avianca-TACA sees AV Brasil [and AeroGal for that matter] as integral parts of its operation and will fully absorb its operations in the future.

Avianca Brasil is being used as a feeder for some Brasil flights and has a flight to BOG, but the reality is that their domestic operations have nothing to do with the rest of the hubs nor are they sold as part of the operation, just as codeshare/interline flights. Management was once directly from the BOG office, but brazilians have sice regained control of the company. This doesn't mean that their ultimate interest is to make it part of Aviancataca but it will continue to fly as a separate company using a franchise of the brand until Brazil relaxes it's ownership laws.

Quoting pdpsol (Reply 14):
Brasil is expected to increase foreign ownership thresholds for domestic carriers from 25% to 49% in the near future. Even before Brasil ratifies a law expanding foreign ownership in its domestic carriers, there is argument for claiming Avianca-TACA is, indeed, a "Brazilian" company, due to the fact the sole shareholder of one of its primary shareholders, Synergy SA is a Brazilian citizen.

One can only assume Eframovich and Avianca-TACA have hired many, many lawyers in Brazil and elsewhere to assess this possibility.

They have publically stated that Avianca Brasil will not make part of the group until ownership allowance is raised. And no, even though Efromovich is of Brazilian nationality and the majority of AvTa capital is of brazilian origin, the holding is Panamanian, Avianca is colombian, TACA is salvadorean, Aerogal is ecuadorean and TACA Perú is peruvian by domicile. There is no way around it.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
BTW, how many different brands operate under the Synergy Group?

Under Synergy there are many, but what is of interest to the case of study is how many operate under AviancaTaca. Those would be AV, TA, 2K and TA Regional. The other airlines owned by Synergy are Vip Ecuador, one in Nigeria which I can't remember and I think that's it.


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