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B6 Possilble Union Maybe A321NEO Order?  
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

I Didnt see this mentioned B6 threaten by ALPA and maybe the order a A321NEO here is the link..

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/jet...push-eyes-more-partners-2011-06-06

what you think


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Nobody wants to pay union dues, including me, but there are two reasons why I'd definitely vote in favor of labor representation if I were a jetBlue pilot:

1) The current management team isn't going to last forever and you don't know what one in 10-20 years will be like (glenn tilton?)

2) They currently have nothing in the way of protection in the event of a merge/buyout.

321NEO seems like a good plane, on paper so far at least. I don't think they'll be alone in ordering it if it delivers what Airbus is promising.

[Edited 2011-06-07 11:34:13]

User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 1):

i do agree with you about joining the union on that one



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 2):
i do agree with you about joining the union on that one

Unfortunately, the company was not designed for unions. Once the pilots unionize, multiple other groups will rush to do the same. Once those groups unionize, the culture of the company will change, which means the product that customers expect from B6 will change (and not for the better as they will now be more legacy-carrier like), which hurts the brand (which is a HUGE thing with B6). This has a huge potential of screwing the company completely.

Just my    from someone who sees the writing on the wall (and I am in a union at my second job...absolutely useless except for taking money out of my paycheck every month).



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineN623JB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

I hope this A321NEO has a bigger wingspan, because personally I do not like the A321. In my opinion, the A321 is like a stretched out A320 with the same wingspan. Thats why im hoping for a bigger wingspan on the A321NEO and if jetBlue gets the plane, it would be great(as long as its a bigger wingspan). I hope this is like a transition point between getting the A320 and the Boeing 787 Dreamliner for the jetBlue fleet. Just my opinion.


Bring JetBlue To Mexico City! (TLC and/or MEX would be great)
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17324 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Unfortunately, the company was not designed for unions.

Nothing would make B6' competitors happier 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting N623JB (Reply 4):
I hope this A321NEO has a bigger wingspan, because personally I do not like the A321. In my opinion, the A321 is like a stretched out A320 with the same wingspan.

You have to take other things into consideration here. Would gate space have to be re-designed to fit an aircraft with a larger wing span? Would hangar space have to be re-designed? Currently we can fit 3 aircraft in the hangar (and I think it was designed to fit an A321), but I don't know how much wiggle room you would have if you increase the wing span. As always, it's not about looks, its about function.

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7048 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Once those groups unionize, the culture of the company will change, which means the product that customers expect from B6 will change

Ok, I'm lost on this one, are you saying that the company will negotiate away its right to service standards?
No union exist now, so I do not see why management will negotiate a contract which gives the union control over the company service levels.
Contrary to popular opinion, union contracts are agreed upon by management and labour, unlike non-union company's where management simply sets it rules on a take it or leave it option. We do have lazy management types, who rather than doing their job's, allow union workers to run rough shod over negotiated agreements, they are no different from lazy union management who do not do their jobs.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24796 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

There is an existing thread on the union drive
B6 Pilots File Election Cards With The NMB (by nwaesc Jun 2 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Probably best to keep that discussion there.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Nothing would make B6' competitors happier

Yup.   

Quoting par13del (Reply 7):
Ok, I'm lost on this one

I am well aware of how unions work along with the negotiations, as I said, I am IN ONE at my other job. My argument in B6's case is that culture has a direct impact on attitudes. Unionized labor culture has a different attitude. You're going to get a lot more "that's not in my job description" going on instead of teaming together to get something done. I've seen it happen before, especially at my other job. The attitudes, both on the front line for customers to see and behind the scenes, have a huge potential of changing which can negatively impact the customer experience. I'm not trying to be argumentative or trying to start a "for or against unions" thing on here, just pointing out the probability of outcomes for this scenario.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineN623JB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 6):

In regards to function, I do not think the A321 has alot of extra range of miles with it, but a A321NEO may have more range due to the fact that the wingspan is bigger, which is needed if you want a plane with more range.



Bring JetBlue To Mexico City! (TLC and/or MEX would be great)
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting N623JB (Reply 10):
In regards to function, I do not think the A321 has alot of extra range of miles with it, but a A321NEO may have more range due to the fact that the wingspan is bigger, which is needed if you want a plane with more range.

Not to mention the 16ish percent reduction in fuel expense which can be translated into some amount of additional range. Certainly more than their existing A320s.

NS


User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting N623JB (Reply 10):
which is needed if you want a plane with more range.

While that is true, A LOT has to do with upgraded engines and the sharklets (I wish Airbus would play nice with API so we could slap the sharklets on the A320's already    ).



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2838 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 1):
1) The current management team isn't going to last forever and you don't know what one in 10-20 years will be like (glenn tilton?)

I'd argue the current management team is the reason the pilots are looking at unionizing. The company culture is much different now then it was 8-10 years ago.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Unfortunately, the company was not designed for unions. Once the pilots unionize, multiple other groups will rush to do the same. Once those groups unionize, the culture of the company will change, which means the product that customers expect from B6 will change (and not for the better as they will now be more legacy-carrier like), which hurts the brand (which is a HUGE thing with B6). This has a huge potential of screwing the company completely.

Again, the culture is much different now then when many of the senior pilots at B6 joined. I don't see how the product will change for the customer if the pilots unionize.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Well, first of all, nobody has actually said that the pilots will unionize at Jetblue. However the voting process, as I understand it, is very different this year. Only actual votes will be counted, whereas in previous years absentee votes were considered a "no" against unionization. That's changed the rules of the game considerably!


None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2264 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Unfortunately, the company was not designed for unions. Once the pilots unionize, multiple other groups will rush to do the same. Once those groups unionize, the culture of the company will change, which means the product that customers expect from B6 will change (and not for the better as they will now be more legacy-carrier like), which hurts the brand (which is a HUGE thing with B6). This has a huge potential of screwing the company completely.

Is it impossible to replicate what Southwest has done? They are one of the most unionized airlines in the industry, yet their service standards are high and employees consistently deliver. There is no reason why a union has to get in the way of customer service, and in fact, they rarely do.

As for unions, the flight attendants at B6 have long been in the process, although I'm not sure when cards will go out to F/As for representation. There are issues with F/A scheduling at B6, among other things that, unless management corrects, will likely lead to the flight attendants voting in a union.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
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