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Delta Moving Jobs From Minneapolis To Atlanta  
User currently offlineDLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11646 times:

Delta Airlines will be relocating some Minneapolis jobs to Atlanta. Minneapolis employees have been offered jobs in Atlanta, having been notified by letter.

Says the Star Tribune,

"The company plans to move training centers for flight attendants and pilots in Minneapolis to Atlanta. The company also plans to move engineering and technical support teams from Minneapolis to Atlanta."

star tribune article: http://www.startribune.com/local/123405358.html

-------------------------

I wonder what people think about Delta's "committment" to Minnesota.


Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11526 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11599 times:

Quoting DLHFLYER (Thread starter):
I wonder what people think about Delta's "committment" to Minnesota.

It's simple economics.

I vividly remember having a particularly memorable conversation (among oh-so-many) here on A.net a few years back with the (former) head of the Delta A.net P.R. division who insisted that Delta was committed to its "executive office" in Minneapolis - as if that meant anything.

The truth is that for an airline, one "executive office" is enough, and besides politics, there is simply no need to operate the sizable Eagan/Minneapolis office facility when the Atlanta office is perfectly capable of fulfilling the singular role of the headquarters for the airline.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11478 times:

I think this line at the end of the story sums it up: "Delta is based in Atlanta."

In this economy it doesn't make much sense to have duplicative functions in MSP and ATL.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
It's simple economics.

I vividly remember having a particularly memorable conversation (among oh-so-many) here on A.net a few years back with the (former) head of the Delta A.net P.R. division who insisted that Delta was committed to its "executive office" in Minneapolis - as if that meant anything.

The truth is that for an airline, one "executive office" is enough, and besides politics, there is simply no need to operate the sizable Eagan/Minneapolis office facility when the Atlanta office is perfectly capable of fulfilling the singular role of the headquarters for the airline.

Totally agree, but to clarify these aren't executive office positions. I presume this involves closing the NATCO facility?


User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3049 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11419 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I vividly remember having a particularly memorable conversation (among oh-so-many) here on A.net a few years back with the (former) head of the Delta A.net P.R. division who insisted that Delta was committed to its "executive office" in Minneapolis - as if that meant anything.

Just like those DL P.R. people on A.net who live in fantasy and don't believe that it would be an immediate bloodbath of much of AS's route structure if DL (or AA) aquired AS (I'll bet WN would be cheering though). Just like DL is firmly committed to their CVG or MEM hubs; just like DL stated they had no plans to adopt a first-bag fee weeks before they did so; just like AA issued a press release about how they were committed to the SJC-NRT flight shortly before they discontinued it......etc..

My personal belief is that airline mergers tend to benefit the exectives but little else. Many of the communities (e.g. STL, MEM, CVG, all of PSA's cities, etc) lose; many of the employees lose and the traveling public often loses (higher fares and often fewer routes if you happen to want to fly to or through a downgraded hub).

[Edited 2011-06-07 17:27:56]

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11195 times:

Quoting DLHFLYER (Thread starter):
I wonder what people think about Delta's "commitment" to Minnesota.

A load of sweet talk that we know isn't going to be upheld.

Sounds like this move will eliminate most, if not all job positions outside of the airport grounds. This one hits a little closer to home as I know people that used to work in the pilot training department. I've even been there for a tour. A real shame for the current employees that work at or use the facility.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10377 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11168 times:

Quoting DLHFLYER (Thread starter):
I wonder what people think about Delta's "committment" to Minnesota.

The committment is still there....it was worked out in the agreement with the MAC. Besides, the committment was for "frontline" jobs, if I recall.....these are NOT frontline jobs.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinepremobrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11081 times:

This is very disappointing news. A lot of simulators are moving to ATL...


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6761 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11020 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
I think this line at the end of the story sums it up: "Delta is based in Atlanta."

Exactly..

Delta is an Atlanta airline
Delta is an American Express airline (see above)
Delta is a Coca-Cola airline (see 2 above)
Delta is a Boeing airline (see 3 above)
Delta is an East Coast airline (see all above)

All of these are utterly true.. and for the last one, what I mean is Delta is gonna be the strongest airline on the East Coast regardless of what everyone else thinks..

None of these will change.. people just need to understand that..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10967 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
It's simple economics.
Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
In this economy it doesn't make much sense to have duplicative functions in MSP and ATL.

I'm not sure I buy that. Sure for many companies consolidating and streamling to one "widget" makes sense, but DL is such a massive company that the economies of scale just don't exist when you add 1000+1000 in the same way they do when you add 10+10. They are putting all of their eggs into one basket. ATL. They are routing more and more flights through there (reducing or eliminating depending on your point of view MEM and CVG) and consolidating more operations in one location. They are reducing redundancy and back up in the system in case of overload or a catastrophic failure.

I think a beancounter has run some theoretical numbers but not looked at the 'real world' scenarios of larger organizations being more bueracratic (by their very nature) and the full long term cost of placing all risks in one location. Still, DL aren't muppets but I do wonder if they have any vision beyond ATL.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):

In this economy it doesn't make much sense to have duplicative functions in MSP and ATL.

The issue with that I can't think of much, if any, duplicate functions being saved here. That's a lot of uprooting for small cost savings.

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
I presume this involves closing the NATCO facility?

Sounds like it from the article.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11526 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10865 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
but DL is such a massive company

It's really not - Delta is a big company, but in the scheme of things, it's one among many - Delta did $31 billion in revenue last year, and while that is certainly a lot of money, it's still only 88 on the Fortune 500.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
that the economies of scale just don't exist when you add 1000+1000 in the same way they do when you add 10+10

Sure it does - especially for an airline where there really are substantive incremental cost and operational savings to be gained through the efficiency of consolidating infrastructure wherever possible.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
They are putting all of their eggs into one basket. ATL.

... just like every other airline.

Much as some people - I'm not necessarily meaning you - want to try and make it otherwise, Delta is just like every other airline. They're nothing special, and they operate in the same market, and under the same laws of economic reality, that impact every other U.S. airline, which is - generally - why you don't see U.S. carriers with big, far-flung, widespread back-office operations across their system. Again - there is simply no need nor economic justification long-term.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
They are routing more and more flights through there (reducing or eliminating depending on your point of view MEM and CVG) and consolidating more operations in one location.

Most Cincinnati traffic flows I would imagine, if Delta is still going after them, have been shifted to Detroit, not Atlanta. Either way, the airline is reducing their fleet and capacity - again, just like every other network airline - and thus they have to cut somewhere. Common sense dictates that you don't cut much at your largest, most strategically important, and most dominant hub when you have small, weak, declining hubs that are logical places to cut to begin with.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
They are reducing redundancy and back up in the system in case of overload or a catastrophic failure.

The reality is that "redundancy and back up" doesn't pay economically if it means you have to operate marginal hubs. It is cheaper and more efficient to bolster and strengthen the strong hubs and deal with the "overload" of unique circumstances as they happen. Any well-run company - and Delta is definitely a well-run company - knows that you manage the exceptions, you don't let the exceptions manage you.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
DL aren't muppets but I do wonder if they have any vision beyond ATL.

Well, they have "massive" hubs in Detroit and Minneapolis, a smaller but strong hub in Salt Lake City, strong franchises in New York and LA, etc.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10793 times:
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A lot of good, veteran people at NATCO. I can't see a lot of them moving to the ATL. Based on initial reaction from a few former Northwest folks, they're a little sad...especially with NATCO closing. That building and its predecessor trained a lot of excellent pilots. Glad to say I flew the 744, 757/767, 320/319 and the 727-200 sims there over the years.

User currently onlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1179 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10778 times:

Sad that they are closing their F/A training in MSP. One of the good things that came
from NWA. Great facility and facilitators. Sorry to to see them go.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10711 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
My personal belief is that airline mergers tend to benefit the exectives but little else. Many of the communities (e.g. STL, MEM, CVG, all of PSA's cities, etc) lose; many of the employees lose and the traveling public often loses

The reality is that the employees were already losing and the communities were going to be losing because the airlines operating there aren't profitably able to operate.

Airlines need to make as much money as they can and pay the employees they can afford to have a quality wage. And if that means you shouldn't have a hub in Memphis or operate two "executive offices" - which is retarded, by the way - then you shouldn't do it. Stability comes from strength.

NS


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7552 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10368 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 11):
A lot of good, veteran people at NATCO. I can't see a lot of them moving to the ATL. Based on initial reaction from a few former Northwest folks, they're a little sad...especially with NATCO closing. That building and its predecessor trained a lot of excellent pilots. Glad to say I flew the 744, 757/767, 320/319 and the 727-200 sims there over the years.

Well thats one way to get people to leave voluntariliy, especially "Senior / Expensive" labor.
A lot of these people aren't going to pick up and leave, let alone try to sell their house.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10377 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10157 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):

I'm not sure I buy that. Sure for many companies consolidating and streamling to one "widget" makes sense, but DL is such a massive company that the economies of scale just don't exist when you add 1000+1000 in the same way they do when you add 10+10. They are putting all of their eggs into one basket. ATL. They are routing more and more flights through there (reducing or eliminating depending on your point of view MEM and CVG) and consolidating more operations in one location. They are reducing redundancy and back up in the system in case of overload or a catastrophic failure.

I think a beancounter has run some theoretical numbers but not looked at the 'real world' scenarios of larger organizations being more bueracratic (by their very nature) and the full long term cost of placing all risks in one location. Still, DL aren't muppets but I do wonder if they have any vision beyond ATL.

I don't buy it......DL's operation, today, is more far flung and diverse than anytime that I can remember, including the 33+ years I worked for them.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7407 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10134 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
Quoting n7371f (Reply 11):
A lot of good, veteran people at NATCO. I can't see a lot of them moving to the ATL. Based on initial reaction from a few former Northwest folks, they're a little sad...especially with NATCO closing. That building and its predecessor trained a lot of excellent pilots. Glad to say I flew the 744, 757/767, 320/319 and the 727-200 sims there over the years.

Well thats one way to get people to leave voluntariliy, especially "Senior / Expensive" labor.
A lot of these people aren't going to pick up and leave, let alone try to sell their house.


Well, in this economy, some will for awhile, if it is feasible to do so, and if the job market is as sparse as it is right now.



Made from jets!
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9894 times:

Quoting DLHFLYER (Thread starter):
I wonder what people think about Delta's "committment" to Minnesota.
Quoting mayor (Reply 5):
it was worked out in the agreement with the MAC.

DL also noted that “In addition, as part of closing Building N, Delta will also reduce our total debt by repaying the outstanding loans with the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC)..."

I wonder what that means as far as their obligation to Minnesota. Anyone know how that affects the agreement?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
The issue with that I can't think of much, if any, duplicate functions being saved here. That's a lot of uprooting for small cost savings.

I'm curious how much engineering support will be left, especially in light of the recent push to increase the maintenance operation in MSP (MRO certification, etc.).

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
Delta is just like every other airline. They're nothing special...

Oh boy... Now you've done it... LOL.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2540 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9789 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 17):
I'm curious how much engineering support will be left, especially in light of the recent push to increase the maintenance operation in MSP (MRO certification, etc.).

I'm sure there will be some support left in MSP to support the hangar operation. I'm not sure but I think they kept all of the former NW fleet team people 757, 747, A320, A330 groups in MSP. These are the groups from engineering that will be moving.


User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9455 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 17):
I wonder what that means as far as their obligation to Minnesota. Anyone know how that affects the agreement?

It's not mentioned in the article, but an article on DeltaNet confirms that the agreement would still be met:

Quote:
Despite the facility changes, Richard said Delta will “continue to have more than 12,000 Delta and subsidiary employees living and working in Minnesota, and more than 480 average daily departures from our hub. We’ve continued investing in the facilities where our people work and in the airport experience for our customers.”


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2040 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9391 times:

Delta is doing the same thing that they did back in the late 1980's when they bought out Western Airlines. Many jobs were moved from LAX to ATL. WN and FL still have to go through all of this. IIRC UA/CO are going through this now are they not?


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

About the only thing that irritates me more than that bald little weasel in Steenland, is the ignorant board of directors NW had, half of whom had no idea how to run a business, let alone an airline.

User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3100 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8093 times:

Delta Internal Memorandum

From Richard Anderson

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...f/Delta%20Air%20Lines%20Letter.pdf


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

Makes sense. It's not like DL has it out for MSP or anything -- It's one of their most profitable hubs on paper, they are rennovating one of the MSP concourses, and they have sponsorship and a box where the Twins play as well. This is just a consolidation effort.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 20):

UA is keeping it's corporate HQ at Wacker drive in Chicago so all of CO moved there already with the exception of the finance division, which remains in Houston. Also I believe UA still has a training facility out in DEN -- not sure what will eventually happen with that.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):

Yes. Compared to the way NW was formally run, DL has a better way of doing things but from what I understand there is still quite a bit of NW influence down in ATL.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

Sorry but I'll have to say it's about time. DL is big but not big enough to justify dual role as those that are being shifted. There is actually plenty of unused real estate around the GO that Delta owns.


What gets measured gets done.
25 goblin211 : If DL is really going through with this and isn't just speculating, then why did they bother to put/leave a training centers and unnecessary technica
26 Post contains links MSPNWA : The new news is that Delta must now pay Minnesota $175 million of old NW debt. It was tied to an agreement to retain the training center in Eagan. htt
27 7673mech : No, actually they tend to benefit the shareholders, the bosses of the executives. Because they needed to keep the training areas of the Airbus fleet
28 Post contains images catiii : True, but what does that really mean? They have the same agreement with the Lakers, the Rams, the Angels... Also, with that 23-38 record they may be
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : that's not new news. They had stated they would be paying any debt back to the MAC. As for the employees, yes it sucks but DL is running a business n
30 n7371f : There is something interesting with the announcement... The main crux of Delta's move is to reduce expenses, with a large part of that coming through
31 mohunk : I and the other MN taxpayers gave NWA hundreds of millions of dollars for which they agreed for 25 years to (and we are nowhere near 25 years yet): Ke
32 FlyASAGuy2005 : So running an owned building has no costs? The fact is that they have no need for the space with most of the functions being able to be accomodated i
33 MSPNWA : It's new news now that we know the amount remaining, and the fact that Delta will be paying it off by next year instead over the next few years (2016
34 mayor : Then ask NW for it back (if you can find them)......NW made those promises, not DL. Oh, please......cry me a river. Anyone and I mean anyone that has
35 SNCntry32 : Its simple economics, however, I thought with an airline the size of Delta now, they would have benifitied from two FA and pilot traning centeres. Gu
36 enilria : I think this is really about interest rates. That deal is from a long time ago when interest rates were higher. During the merger DL was under consid
37 apodino : Kind of related, but US has not consolidated their training facilities yet. I believe they still have training centers in both PHX and CLT? I kind of
38 Post contains images peanuts : A few things: Some of you guys just refuse to realize how crappy the state of the economy is in. DL is VERY aggressively pro-active in cutting costs (
39 bobnwa : I don't believe the taxpayers of MN gave any money to NWA but the airport authority which is a separate entity did agree to back the bonds that NWA s
40 n7371f : From the Front Page of the StarTribune in Minneapolis today... Political leaders rip Delta on job loss * Article by: DAVID SHAFFER , Star Tribune * Up
41 rampboy77 : Is the building C tower the original Republic headquarters and reservations office?
42 n7371f : The tower and Hangars 5/6 are part of the large complex that includes Building C, which is the former Republic headquarters. The tower and the hangar
43 mayor : Nothing more than political posturing by Ellison, here. The jobs that are being reduced have no connection with any of the employees that voted in th
44 bjorn14 : Yes, Reps are always up for reelection (every 2 years)
45 joeman : Agreed. This is similar to millions of taxpayer dollars spent on idle infrastructure for closed/closing hubs and all the jobs that go with them. The
46 mayor : As has been said before, ad infinitum, the MN taxpayers are not out any money.....this explains it pretty well........
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