Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New In-flight Products Coming On AA 773ERs?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10894 times:

With AA now having 6 773ERs on order, does anyone think this would be the time AA should improve their in-flight products?

One thing for sure is that the product will be different from that of the 772ERs. The Recaro Y seats on the 772ERs are no longer made, and Rockwell Collins no longer makes widebody IFE systems.

I assume that the IFE system will be a Panasonic system, since I think Panasonic has AA's IFE maintenance contract. I'd also expect AC power at every row instead of DC power in select rows.

For seating, currently, AA uses the Weber 5751 in Y. However, there are newer options available, including the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle and the Recaro CL 3620. Weber is currently working on the new 5752 seat.

However, to really be competitive, AA really needs a flat-bed seat for Business class. The Weber Cirrus might be the ideal option.

Does anyone have any further info?

[Edited 2011-06-07 18:39:15]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10893 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
does anyone think this would be the time AA should improve their in-flight products?

Some would say that the right time was some time ago, at least for business class.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The Weber Cirrus might be the ideal option.

That seat has been doing well lately, and would bring them in line with CX.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10707 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
That seat has been doing well lately, and would bring them in line with CX.

Cathay Pacific, along with US Airways, actually have the Sicma-branded version, however, the Weber-branded version that DL is introducing is identical (Weber and Sicma are sister companies).

AA has been a longtime Weber customer; both the old and the new 757 Y seats are made by Weber, as well as the 767 Y seats and the new 738 seats (the MD-80s, 777s, and old config 738s have Recaro Y seats instead). This is why I think the Weber Cirrus would suit them well.

[Edited 2011-06-07 19:34:51]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10630 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
However, to really be competitive, AA really needs a flat-bed seat for Business class. The Weber Cirrus might be the ideal option.

Funny, because AA already is competitive, not only with U.S. carriers, but many European long-haul airlines like AF that use a similar angled seat.

There will be a new J product introduced on the 77W fleet.

For all the constant whining on how AA is behind the times, despite being the first U.S. carrier with flat seats in J, AA will roll out it's second generation lie-flat before Delta and US Airways complete installation of generation one.

Certainly the new product, I can only assume, will be on new 772 deliveries, as well, and installed on other planes. Development was underway on a new 763 J product. That came to a halt, with AA then planning to introduce a second-generation product with the 788. Then the 788 was delayed until 2014, but then came 77W orders, which will be used to introduce the new J.

I'm more curious to see what happens to F, though, and if the 77W will even have it. I expect AA to keep F now that UA is doing the same, but who knows if it will be on the 788 and 77W fleets.

[Edited 2011-06-07 19:57:21]


a.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5410 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10577 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
Certainly the new product, I can only assume, will be on new 772 deliveries, as well.

I'll be shocked if the ordered 772s are not converted to 77W before delivery.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
Funny, because AA already is competitive.

AA's Y hard product is not really competitive anymore.

But what's even less competitive is the typical sorry state of cleanliness and maintenance exhibited by their interiors. UA has very much stepped up its game in this respect and DL has improved too. And the foreign airlines are even better. Among first-world international airlines, AA is pretty far down the list in this respect, and fixing it would make more difference than any new hard product.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10577 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
For all the constant whining on how AA is behind the times, despite being the first U.S. carrier with flat seats in J, AA will roll out it's second generation lie-flat before Delta and US Airways complete installation of generation one.

Still, AA only has PTVs in Y on the 777s, and it is only semi-AVOD, while DL plans on introducing AVOD in Y on all international aircraft by 2013.

Also, flat-bed J seats were already available at the time AA went with the sloped-flat Recaro CL 6510 J seats.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10534 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Also, flat-bed J seats were already available at the time AA went with the sloped-flat Recaro CL 6510 J seats.

And they were also available when AF went for sloped lie flat with the 380 and DL went recliner with the 757 long-haul. Doesn't change the fact it's still competitive, even if not the best product.



a.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10441 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
And they were also available when AF went for sloped lie flat with the 380 and DL went recliner with the 757 long-haul. Doesn't change the fact it's still competitive, even if not the best product.

And how do you know that AA's new J product will be any better than other flat-bed products? There still has to be some differentiation between F and J.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineCarfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1918 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

I actually find the AA's new business class seats a disaster from day one... I actually wrote AA about the poor design of its so called new generation of business class. I will give you that it is better than Air France and Lufthansa business class, but KLM's World Business Class, Continental BusinessFirst seats (even the last generation), and Finnair last generation are better than AA seats. However the difference is that AA has not modified the seats much (and even the 757-200ER with the new international business class seats features the same seats). As of now, many European airlines have indeed moved to the second or even third generation. Airlines like Air France has constantly modified its seats to get less angle. Yet AA's business class seats remain the same. The only good feature of that seat is the abundant of storage room and large tray table. Its Flagship suites are innovative (but as of now, they are dated and poorly maintained!), but its business class has been a major disappointment.

I sincerely hope that the Boeing 777-300ERs will come up with a real lie flat business class seats, hopefully similar to CX new business class seats.

Carfield


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10299 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):

For all the constant whining on how AA is behind the times, despite being the first U.S. carrier with flat seats in J, AA will roll out it's second generation lie-flat before Delta and US Airways complete installation of generation one.

Chronologically, it is AA's first generation "lie flat at an angle" seat, but comparing it to DL and US first generation 180 degree flat bed seats is a flawed argument. In short, only AA's second generation flat business class seat will be competitive with DL or US.

CO technically was first to the party with its feeble attempt at a lie flat 777 seat circa 2002, and I thought NW had a lie flat J seat with their final WBC product before AA rolled out NGBC? In reality, the current AA seat has more in common with these two designs than it does with current 180-degree J flat beds on offer at DL, UA, CO, US, AC, and others.

To be fair, it is hands-down the best angled lie flat seat available.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
This is why I think the Weber Cirrus would suit them well.

The Cirrus would be an excellent product for AA, but to my knowledge, it is not currently compatible with the 757 or 767. It would be interesting to see if AA abandons its currently uniform product to bring an industry leading flat bed to the 777s instead of finding a solution that works on all its longhaul fleet types.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
The Cirrus would be an excellent product for AA, but to my knowledge, it is not currently compatible with the 757 or 767. It would be interesting to see if AA abandons its currently uniform product to bring an industry leading flat bed to the 777s instead of finding a solution that works on all its longhaul fleet types.

Clearly, DL has no problem with having three different flat-bed seats (Contour Solar Suite, Thompson Vantage, and soon the Weber Cirrus). Really, most business travelers don't really care if the model of seat is uniform fleet-wide, they only care if it is comfortable. Typically, only A.netters would prefer a uniform seat model throughout all aicraft in an airline's fleet.

Interestingly, Recaro had a concept in 2009 known as the Phantom, which was a full-flat version of the CL 6510 in a staggered layout, however, nothing has been heard about it since then.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8341 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9916 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

With the introduction of the 777-300ER AA should use Cathay Pacific products, exactly the same inside as Cathay. IF AA can't borrow ifeas from CX what is the point of having them as an alliance partner.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9896 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
And they were also available when AF went for sloped lie flat with the 380 and DL went recliner with the 757 long-haul. Doesn't change the fact it's still competitive, even if not the best product.

And how do you know that AA's new J product will be any better than other flat-bed products? There still has to be some differentiation between F and J.


I don't doubt it. American has always been a frontrunner in it's premium hard products among U.S. carriers and that will continue. There is also the natural fact that now that all airlines are done rolling out generation one, AA has a lot of knowledge at it's disposal in introducing generation two.

here are plenty of ways to differentiate between J and F. Most would probably argue the best J product among U.S. carriers belongs to United, which clearly has found a way to differentiate it from First. So have Cathay, British, JAL and others.



a.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9819 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
Most would probably argue the best J product among U.S. carriers belongs to United

I'm not sure about 'most'.


User currently offlineAirMatt From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9758 times:

Quote:
I actually find the AA's new business class seats a disaster from day one

I must be in the minority. I'm 6'4" and find the seats very comfortable.

I prefer it to DL's business first on the 77L and QF's skybed product.

Matt


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9681 times:

Quoting AirMatt (Reply 14):
I must be in the minority. I'm 6'4" and find the seats very comfortable.

I agree - I actually find the AA J seats rather comfortable.

I have sat in those seats on all three aircraft they're on, the 752, 763, and 777, and on sectors ranging from 3 hours to 15 hours, and I personally found them quite comfortable. I wasn't sure how the whole angled-lie-flat thing was going to be, but honestly, the angle is so close to pure lie-flat that I didn't really even notice it, and the seat itself was comfortable with plenty of customization. The whole issue with getting out to the aisle if you're in the middle/window is true, but in the scheme of things, that's not a big deal for me. The seatback IFE system looked rather cheap (in typical AA fashion), but that complaint isn't really about the seat itself.

Frankly, I prefer the AA J seat to the longhaul J seats I've sat in from several other airlines - including CX.

[Edited 2011-06-08 07:00:48]

User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
AA has a lot of knowledge at it's disposal in introducing generation two.

Lets hope they use it as first time round and that is not long ago they missed a trick, big time.

That aside I think they really need to bring in a new F suite as well, the current one is really dated in this day and age.

I will be very interested to see what AA unveil on the 77W.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9463 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 16):
That aside I think they really need to bring in a new F suite as well, the current one is really dated in this day and age.

For F, Weber offers the Catalina suite, Contour offers the Venus first class suite, and B/E Aerospace offers the Super First Class suite.

[Edited 2011-06-08 09:01:11]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9443 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
For F, Weber offers the Catalina suite, and Contour offers the Venus first class suite.

I confess that means notonh to me but I am sure those products are much better thsan what AA are currently offereing.

Do AA also need 16 in International F as well? That seems a lot to me in this day and age. They could half that and command a premuim for those seats and not simply hand a vast majority out to upgrades. Just my thought.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 18):
I confess that means notonh to me but I am sure those products are much better thsan what AA are currently offereing.

Well, I am pretty sure that AA's current F suite is no longer made, so AA will have to go shopping for a new F suite.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3619 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

Quoting AirMatt (Reply 14):
I must be in the minority. I'm 6'4" and find the seats very comfortable.

Well, I agree with you. I'm also very skeptical that the ones here pissing and moaning about AA's J seat have ever even sat in the damn things. It's fairly easy to be a critic from the comfort of your arm chair, isn't?



PHX based
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8882 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 20):
Well, I agree with you. I'm also very skeptical that the ones here pissing and moaning about AA's J seat have ever even sat in the damn things. It's fairly easy to be a critic from the comfort of your arm chair, isn't?

But why would anyone think that an angled flat seat is competitive with true flat beds? That is not a fair comparison; AA's product should be compared with other angled flat seats. AA really needs to introduce a true-flat bed J seat for the 773ERs.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8686 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
But why would anyone think that an angled flat seat is competitive with true flat beds? That is not a fair comparison; AA's product should be compared with other angled flat seats. AA really needs to introduce a true-flat bed J seat for the 773ERs.

Well, two things:

First, AA does offer a lie-flat product on the 777s, which fly to many major international markets in AA's network. I know that product isn't offered on 767s, or in most international markets, but it is there.

Second, as I said, at least for me, I have sat in AA's angled J seat on 15-hour flights, and I personally found it more comfortable than lie-flat J products I've sat in for far less time on other excellent carriers.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8274 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So from the sound of things:

1. 77Ws will likely be first glimpse of new AA's new F and J products. J product will have full lie-flat capability. Y will have seatback IFE.
2. 772s will likely receive overhaul as new 77Ws are being delivered in 2013-2014 time frame to resemble mini-me 77Ws.
3. Current 767 product likely to remain unchanged. Although J cabin could be modified for full lie-flat capability.
4. 787s likely to start delivery in 2014 with new F and J product. (F cabin could be smaller). J product with full lie-flat capability. Y will have seatback IFE to bring up to international standards.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8129 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 23):
1. 77Ws will likely be first glimpse of new AA's new F and J products. J product will have full lie-flat capability. Y will have seatback IFE.

Probably. Also, expect the IFE to be a true AVOD system (probably will be Panasonic due to AA's IFE maintenance contract with them, and Rockwell Collins no longer makes widebody IFE systems).

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 23):
2. 772s will likely receive overhaul as new 77Ws are being delivered in 2013-2014 time frame to resemble mini-me 77Ws.

The F and J products might be updated, however, Y might remain unchanged.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 23):
3. Current 767 product likely to remain unchanged. Although J cabin could be modified for full lie-flat capability.

Agreed.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 23):
4. 787s likely to start delivery in 2014 with new F and J product. (F cabin could be smaller). J product with full lie-flat capability. Y will have seatback IFE to bring up to international standards.

Probably. It would be a shame if AA choses to go with overhead IFE in Y on the 787.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
25 AA777223 : I think we are jumping the gun here. These haven't even been officially ordered yet. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin', if you know what I'm sayin'...
26 Post contains images crAAzy : LOL ... I hear ya 7 ... but don't hate 'cause the 8 is late ... . One thing for sure though ... AA is taking a bit of a gamble with the new 77Ws in t
27 Post contains images AA777223 : Hey, dude, I'm not hatin'! I'm excited about those long silver birds scooting around AA's network. I'm just saying that if AA doesn't get their house
28 mah4546 : Your not in the minority. Most people complaining have likely never tried the seats. I enjoy them and find them very comfortable for long flights, mu
29 Post contains links and images 1337Delta764 : I'm pretty sure you will like the Weber Cirrus, since the outboard seats face toward the windows and the center seats face inward allowing a nice con
30 AirMatt : I definitely agree about the angled DL seats. Just a terrible design in my opinion.
31 1337Delta764 : It looks like Contour is no longer promoting the Solar Suite, they are now instead promoting the Vantage, which they manufacture for Thompson.
32 HKG212 : Totally agree, like others have noted here. The ample storage on the 772s makes a huge difference in long-haul flights, especially compared to say th
33 Carfield : I just want to clarify that I flew American Airlines' Next Generation Business Class seats on the new 757-200ERs, 767-300ERs and 777-200ERs. As you ca
34 1337Delta764 : The problem is, many of these flat-bed products were designed with larger widebodies in mind (such as the 747, 777, A330/A340 and A380), with the 767
35 AA777223 : Everybody keeps forgetting that AA is really big on a 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 layout in their C. All of these products would have to be 1-2-1, I believe, whic
36 1337Delta764 : What about the UA style flat-bed seats then? Of course, their disadvantage is rear-facing seats.
37 Post contains images flythere : That would be great indeed! Survey and research has been done, and most passengers of the CX new product gave 90+ marks. Cathay's J-seats are tested
38 AA777223 : I agree! I think that'd be a great option. I think what would work even better though is the BA seat. It fits about the same number of people into a
39 ual777uk : What is the phobia and nonsense about rear facing seats, I am sorry I just dont get it. Its certainly not a disadvantage as you would put it. BA have
40 aajfksjubklyn : Thank you, you hit it on the head with this! And my two cents, as I travel quite a bit, mostly AA but a few others from time to time, AA's Business a
41 AZA330 : Whenever I get to fly Club World on BA I always choose the rear-facing seats (for they are by the window and make quite a private suite, especially f
42 LY777 : Will AA keep the 9-abresat seating config or could they switch to 3-4-3 config? Where will they fly these 77Ws?
43 ual777uk : Jeez, I really hope they dont go ten abreast in Y, thats gruesome. I am sure they will stick with 9 and perhaps follow the trend and go 3-3-3.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Rating Air Canada's New In Flight Entertainment posted Mon Aug 21 2006 21:13:23 by AIRCANL1011
Bear Heads In A Bag On AA Flight posted Wed May 24 2006 17:47:51 by Dc10s4ever
New IFE On AA Coming Soon... posted Tue Sep 28 2004 18:36:43 by Qqflyboy
Man Lights Matches On AA Flight; Causes Diversion posted Wed Aug 4 2010 22:49:52 by ABQ747
Puppies Die On AA Flight 851 posted Wed Aug 4 2010 09:39:08 by KC135TopBoom
In-Flight Entertainment On The 707/DC-8 posted Tue Mar 23 2010 02:05:56 by Jackbr
Air Marshal In-Flight Arrest On CO 59 posted Wed Feb 17 2010 07:54:22 by fxramper
Bomb Threat On AA Flight posted Fri Dec 18 2009 14:25:58 by Darthluke12694
Volaris Live In-Flight Concert On TLC-LAX posted Thu Aug 13 2009 23:13:14 by OP3000
BA In-flight Entertainment System Problems On 744 posted Mon Mar 2 2009 23:48:04 by BRUspotter