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Merging AA, UA, DL And US Into One - Likely Outcome?  
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9185 times:

Merge them into one entity with 8 hubs - Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York and Miami.

The LCC's have removed the need for healthy competition between the legacy carriers on domestic and let's face it something needs to be done about long-haul out of the USA.

Never mind unions and regulations, this is the only way. Would be great !! (It's gonna happen anyway sooner or later)


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9114 times:

For a start, what percentage of visitors/tourists etc to the country arrive on American carriers ? I bet it's woeful.


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8957 times:

Woeful? Are you kidding? AA, UA and DL have extensive international operations. If you think only Americans are filling those planes I have a nice opportunity involving a bridge I'd like to discuss with you.

User currently offlinesplitterz From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8934 times:

This entire post is completely laughable...not to mention this would be terrible for competition in North America. WN a LCC has been increasing fares to levels comparable to legacy carriers, often even being greater. So how would this be good for the country? With the removal of legacy competition of would bet good money that frequencies would be reduced and fares would sky rocket.

User currently offlinegaystudpilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8922 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):

What do you mean, "something needs to be done about long-haul out of the USA"? Whether you like the hard product or the service provided by the overweight Grandmothers of Aviation, the market economics do not suggest "something needs to be one." Please clarify.

Of the four you mentioned, somehow within the next 10 years two will disappear. More than likely AA will be acquired by DL and a chunk of assets will be sold off, most being acquired by US. SkyTeam will disappear and be absorbed by oneworld. US will be thrown out of Star Alliance and become a founding partner in a new alliance called ThirdWorld, which will include SkyTeam dropouts.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

We're getting there, but we'll never go as far as you suggest. With the merger, United has hubs in:
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Denver
Chicago
Houston
New York
Washington, D.C.

That right there covers most significant American population centers, more than any other US airline.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting splitterz (Reply 3):
This entire post is completely laughable...

No, it's the level of service on American carriers that is laughable. If I was flying from Sydney to LA in economy (in any class for that matter) it wouldn't be on United. Or from JFK to London, American ? Don't think so.

Why is that ?

I truly love America, been in and out of the place all my life, but your airlines suck !



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8723 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
I truly love America, been in and out of the place all my life, but your airlines suck !

But as the OP, aren't you couching your argument emotionally and in a way that -- literally -- no one can respond to your points?


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

You realize, of course, that the first thing combined US legacy would do is go nuclear on WN et al, and it would serve so many places that they don't it would have a good shot at working. Amidst all that there would be a massive antitrust complaint and the new megalegacy would be broken up. The pieces would then spend decades clawing their way back to where they are right about now.

The US airline industry is more stable right now than it has been since deregulation. Let's just leave it alone.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8665 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
Or from JFK to London, American ? Don't think so.

Really? Try it sometime...American & Delta on JFK-LHR are pretty nice.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3628 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8568 times:

"Or from JFK to London, American ? Don't think so."

Actually, I got to fly on one of your country's airlines when I flew the route . . . Virgin Atlantic.

Coach, middle seat, 340.

While the crews are very friendly, my tall 5'9" body   had a hard time with the lack of legroom. The food was medicore and the IFE was subpar. Couldn't touch JetBlue with a 10 foot pole to be more specific.

So I don't think that bad service is limited to US airlines by any means. What I do think is that the US airline industry has consistently been a trend-setter in the industry and the industry has moved away from larger planes with huge inflight ammenities. It is transportation for the masses now . . . and believe me, if it has not spread across Europe yet, it will because all of the established carriers have the reality of competing against RyanAir and EasyJet.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6372 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8552 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
Never mind unions and regulations

Ha...good luck with that one.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
Virgin Atlantic.

Second worst airline I have ever flown long-haul on.


User currently offlinesplitterz From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8469 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
I truly love America, been in and out of the place all my life, but your airlines suck !

May I ask which ones you have flown on? There are many differences from carrier to carrier, like WN's 'bags flying free' or Frontier's IFE, Delta has the most wifi equipped planes out there, and so forth. It sounds like you want a megalegacy in the US for better service and better seats right? Airlines are about making money in this most difficult industry. If you want comfort purchase a first class ticket on Emirates.


User currently offlineFuling From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8341 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
I truly love America, been in and out of the place all my life, but your airlines suck
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
So I don't think that bad service is limited to US airlines by any means

I am Australian born and lived here all my life and I believe Qantas is the best way to fly. I think that a lot of passengers feel most comfortable and relaxed on our own nations carriers. The Americans prefer American carriers, the English prefer English carriers, Australians prefer the Australian carriers. I remember talking with a friend from South Korea, and he had to go from Brisbane to Seoul, and he prefered Korean Air over Air China, even though Air China was about $500 cheaper.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8248 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 9):
American & Delta on JFK-LHR are pretty nice.

light years behind BA and VS.


User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8247 times:

I don't think there should be any more mergers....that's it.....

Guys after mergers prices have no where to go but up.....



Our Returning Champion
User currently onlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5311 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8094 times:

Some legal experts have wondered how UA/CO and and DL/NW passed the anti-trust tests. It was a joke that DOJ said that UA and CO only competed on routes like ORD-CLE and DEN-IAH, but didn't take into account all of the routes that involved a connection.

That said, if UA or DL tried to buy AA, there is no way that would get past the DOJ.

UA buying AA would mean one carrier would control more than 80% of the flying in and out of ORD. With that much control, a carrier could start dumping capacity and dropping fares to compete with WN at MDW, or the likes of Virgin America or Jet Blue at ORD.

If DL bought AA, the combined carrier would dwarf B6 at JFK.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 1):
For a start, what percentage of visitors/tourists etc to the country arrive on American carriers ? I bet it's woeful.

And I bet you its not.

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 4):
US will be thrown out of Star Alliance and become a founding partner in a new alliance called ThirdWorld, which will include SkyTeam dropouts.

  

Quoting ckfred (Reply 16):
but didn't take into account all of the routes that involved a connection.

And a good job too IMHO otherwise the process would have been rediculous. You need to draw the line somewhere


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7808 times:

Merging AA, UA, DL And US Into One - Likely Outcome?

Aeroflot in the Soviet days.  
Quoting splitterz (Reply 3):
This entire post is completely laughable...

Ummmm.... It's all in fun. If you don't like it, don't post in it.


User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 18):
Merging AA, UA, DL And US Into One - Likely Outcome?

Aeroflot in the Soviet days.

That is what I was thinking, but Ameriflot.



An American expat from the ORD area living and working in Australia
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 8):
Amidst all that there would be a massive antitrust complaint and the new megalegacy would be broken up.

Why ? One country, one airline. How can you issue an anti-trust complaint against yourselves ?? From whom would it be issued ?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
Actually, I got to fly on one of your country's airlines when I flew the route . . . Virgin Atlantic.

Well at least you don't having to listen to Sir Rich having a pop at BA everytime he's in the media. There's one man that needs to get over it.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 16):
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 1):
For a start, what percentage of visitors/tourists etc to the country arrive on American carriers ? I bet it's woeful.

And I bet you its not.

I'll buy that if you can back it up.

Quoting splitterz (Reply 12):
It sounds like you want a megalegacy in the US for better service and better seats right? Airlines are about making money in this most difficult industry

I think the cost savings would eventually be quite substantial in the long run. How could they not be.

Quoting splitterz (Reply 12):
If you want comfort purchase a first class ticket on Emirates.

I hope you don't work in ticket sales. You see that's exactly the sort of attitude I'm talking about.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7413 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 20):
Why ? One country, one airline. How can you issue an anti-trust complaint against yourselves ?? From whom would it be issued ?

What?

We have laws in this country to prevent monopolies. The Department of Justice would never approve such a combination. Ever.

You're thinking way too locally. Competition in Europe is between countries. In the US, its between companies.

NS


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

Quoting splitterz (Reply 3):
This entire post is completely laughable...not to mention this would be terrible for competition in North America

   However, on the other hand.......one of the most vocal of your countrymen is supporting the OP in another thread that BA should be allowed to purchase every United Kingdom carrier because they shouldn't be competed with, and thus also prevent choice. I said exactly the same as you did, adding that it would never fly in the US so why should it in the UK? So, I'll be interested if the argument is equally supported here, but which I very much doubt!!

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
Never mind unions and regulations, this is the only way. Would be great !!

Yeah, you seem to keep saying that....never mind anything as long as it suits a viewpoint. It would be great for whom?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 20):
From whom would it be issued ?

Try from the United States government. Not being rude, but do you actually know what you're talking about regarding this thread?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 20):
I hope you don't work in ticket sales. You see that's exactly the sort of attitude I'm talking about.

You've definitely lost me.......what attitude are you talking about (plus everything else)?


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

Correction: we have laws to prevent the abuse of monopolies. Monopolies themselves are perfectly legal.

As for who would file the suit? There would be a rather long line. Any group that could demonstrate they had been harmed would have the right. Consumer groups would probably be the first out the gate, seeing as they sued for both DL/NW and UA/CO to be blocked.

[Edited 2011-06-08 11:28:45]

User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7326 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 21):
You're thinking way too locally. Competition in Europe is between countries. In the US, its between companies.

Your airline industry outside of your borders is doomed then. The United States to all intents and purposes occupies one whole continent. [Canada]

I think in the future this industry will consist of maybe four huge holding companies across the globe. I've got a feeling one of them will have a big shiny skyscraper in New York............



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
25 mikey72 : I think you'll find the United States government will do whatever suits them (and rightly so) if they think it's best. Try to stop thinking about the
26 PanHAM : coming close, guys, I had that in mind as well. But, 25 replies and no one answers the obvious likely outcome??? AIRTRAK of course...
27 goblin211 : Allow me to go through your post with a fine-tooth comb. 1. Don't forget IAH and IAD. However, if we have just the hubs you mentioned, alone then mil
28 SurfandSnow : There is absolutely no way you can dump hubs in the Houston and D.C. markets. Philadelphia wouldn't make sense because the key transatlantic and Cari
29 ckfred : Let's say you want to fly OMA-TPA. UA would route you through ORD. CO would route you through IAH. DL would have routed you through ATL. NW would hav
30 deputydawghere : It sounds like you haven't flown from the U.S. to Sydney on any carrier. I fly from the U.S. to Sydney every year, and have done so since 1989, so I
31 Post contains images Speedbird741 : I won´t doubt that people have told you that. However, and if I may, most travellers do not share that opinion at all. No, it is not. Not by any mea
32 s4popo : Hmm, what do you call your local power company?
33 mikey72 : Sorry I should of put an 'etc' after my hub list. I totally agree with you. It wasn't meant to be a finite list by any means. LCC increasingly equals
34 vinniewinnie : Ah really? I'm sorry but this country is full of monopolies or oligopolies abusing their powers in order to cream off customers... Competition author
35 Delimit : A combined legacy would be able to basically dump capacity on the LCCs. There is no way any of them could compete, as the legacy would be able to supp
36 ukoverlander : .......I believe that to be a lie of sorts.
37 mikey72 : AA, UA, DL and US could QUITE EASILY arrange their schedules so they didn't over lap pre-merger on international and with monsters lile WN on domestic
38 par13del : Unfortunately for the US Government, the executive Branch who may initially approve and "prod" the DOT / DOJ to approve such mergers will run into th
39 Post contains images Braniff722 : Here is my take on it. NEW WORLD ORDER!!!!! Maybe next we can all have the same money, too. Sheeze, the questions that come up on this forum sometimes
40 washingtonian : Not really! Maybe in a premium class...But how is it substantially different in Coach?
41 vinniewinnie : You have no understanding of the US aviation market or the geography of the US to say such things. Say 3 main airlines + 1 or 2 lcc in Europe merge,
42 Valorien : Other than a "super airline" not happening for legal and political reasons, I wouldn't want it to come to fruition because of one very important issue
43 KGRB : Mikey72, your whole point is flawed, because if there is a decrease in competition there is no way that service would increase. If anything, it is the
44 mikey72 : I totally disagree. Lord you gave them eyes but they cannot see. Look in todays world your present set up aint working. Four have already merged into
45 Post contains images GREATANSETT : As long as the US Federal Reserve exists, causing the destruction of capital by manipulating interest rates, this is a very real possibility...I wish
46 Post contains images wellies : Likely outcome? I'm not so sure, but I bet I know whos colourscheme they'd use!
47 slcdeltarumd11 : The airfares at all the small cities with no southwest, jetblue, or Frontier competition would go thru the roof! Airfares in general would skyrocket b
48 AirNZ : You'll find that's not true at all. Absolute cobblers! Good business acumen?.......yeah, please explain to me (in sensible terms) how a no choice to
49 cslusarc : I don't see the four largest legacy network carriers merging together, however I do expect that there will be three legacy network carriers left befor
50 ajhyxe : In a worst-case scenario situation--where fuel prices endlessly skyrocket and demand remains too elastic to raise fares--I can see a drastic shakeup i
51 Post contains images rwy04lga : Almost peed my pants laughing! Say what? Show me where in New York. Too funny! Don't have to, the Feds will take care of it for you. One big fat plan
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