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UA And AA - LAX-PVG - How Is It Doing?  
User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9137 times:

I am curious if anyone has information about how the new LAX-PVG routes are doing with AA and UA, after both dived on the route. I notice in one of the OAG threads that UA is dropping one frequency per week in November, although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean loads are bad on other days....

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

Just a quick snap shot for this week's flights on AA show a 97.5% LF, 84% in premium cabins. While this doesn't necessarily show the overall performance of the flight, it is at least encouraging.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8583 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 1):
Just a quick snap shot for this week's flights on AA show a 97.5% LF, 84% in premium cabins. While this doesn't necessarily show the overall performance of the flight, it is at least encouraging.

Indeed. They must be pretty happy this early into the flight.


User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4355 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

It's a great route. It's more complicated with UA's SFO operation, but I think there is more opportunity on LAX-China to be had for AA. PEK would be a slam dunk, if not for all the slot shenanigans they've been put through in the past. I would also love to see LAX-CAN in the future. It's amazing how few flights from LAX-Mainland China there are. It's a great opportunity for American carriers to pounce on.

[Edited 2011-06-08 13:14:25]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24310 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

UA's new flight has been virtually full since inaugural day.

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
It's amazing how few flights from LAX-Mainland China there are.

   

We have 3 Chinese passenger airlines serving LAX (plus 4 other cargo ones) - matter of fact LAX has more China nonstop service than any other US airport!

[Edited 2011-06-08 13:32:10]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4355 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8373 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

We have 3 Chinese passenger airlines serving LAX (plus 4 other cargo ones) - matter of fact LAX has more China nonstop service than any other US city!

Yes, 1 daily flights on each of them to CAN, PVG, PEK. I understand that. LAX is the logical first US gateway for these Chinese carriers, and I think it's the best China market period. If i'm not mistaken, before these AA and UA flghts started, LAX trailed SFO and ORD in daily seats to mainland China.

I'm not knocking LAX's China service, it's as good as anyone's and has 3 Chinese carriers. I'm just saying I think there is so much more potential there, and US carriers should continue to develop it. Such a fantastic market that will only continue to grow and with Chinese competition that won't blow you away on service levels unlike some other native airlines.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinescorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
UA's new flight has been virtually full since inaugural day.

Good to hear. Having both start so close together had me thinking that this might make it difficult for one or both at first - although long term I don't see why both can't be successful flying to china given the size of the market and they are the two strongest carriers out of LAX.


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 728 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8241 times:

I wonder how MU's loads are on the flight since these two started...   


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
I think there is more opportunity on LAX-China to be had for AA. PEK would be a slam dunk

It would be interesting to see how AA did on LAX-PEK.

I have no idea if it would or will happen, but I would say that AA having daily nonstops to both PVG and PEK from both ORD and LAX would be quite the respectable AA presence in PRC.

Quoting scorpy (Reply 6):
Good to hear. Having both start so close together had me thinking that this might make it difficult for one or both at first

China Eastern has the stronger presence and connections at PVG, and United is larger at LAX and more established in PVG and China overall. It will be interesting to see if AA will be able to hold out against the inherent strategic advantage that these two carriers naturally have in the market.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7871 times:

Yesterday, I booked F on flight AA183 using my miles. I know it is still more than a month out but the flight in F/J is wide open. Besides myself, there are no other paxs in F. I know F/J paxs (paying ones or mileage runs) book at the last moment but the AA agent told me the flight is usually filled with with mileage rewards and upgrades. she was actually surprised I was calling so far in advance since my departure is not until July 29th.

So as far as I go, AA got exactly $25 from me for this flight.



John@SFO
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24310 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
Yes, 1 daily flights on each of them to CAN, PVG, PEK.

Air China is actually becoming 2x daily 744 in a few months also.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
It would be interesting to see how AA did on LAX-PEK.

Rumors of exactly that happening next spring.



a.
User currently offlineWABENNER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6783 times:

With high fuel prices and too fews seats on their 777s I doubt AA will make money on these routes and throw in ORD-DEL as well.

User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4057 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6634 times:

Why does AA have so few seats on their 777's ?


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6538 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Air China is actually becoming 2x daily 744 in a few months also

I find CA out of SFO is often more expensive than UA in J. UA's J product is leaps and bounds above CA's J.



John@SFO
User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting WABENNER (Reply 12):
With high fuel prices and too fews seats on their 777s I doubt AA will make money on these routes and throw in ORD-DEL as well.

Isn't AA getting more 77Ws? These should provide seat capacity if they decide they need it on these runs.


User currently offlineKFitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 14):
UA's J product is leaps and bounds above CA's J.

It's actually not a bad seat...has a nice sized monitor with AVOD...seat reminds me of a second generation spacebed from the old SQ J / PS UA F in a way.

And looks like F looked like the AA Flagship First Suite to me?



User currently offlineworldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

Surprised that AA doesn't fly to PEK already. This route is successful, a pity that the pilots debate is going on for so long. I don't know alot about it but it seems to be affecting operations and slowing down expansion.


@777Worldliner
User currently offlineWABENNER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Quoting worldliner (Reply 17):
Surprised that AA doesn't fly to PEK already. This route is successful, a pity that the pilots debate is going on for so long. I don't know alot about it but it seems to be affecting operations and slowing down expansion.

Dont they fly ORD-PEK?


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7126 posts, RR: 87
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting WABENNER (Reply 18):
Dont they fly ORD-PEK?

They do and their route/marketing dept. was all up on ORD being the Gateway to Asia. ORDPEK is always safe in F/J and using award travel to NRT usually goes through ORD in my experience. I would love to see more flights to Asia out of LAX for AA.


User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
China Eastern has the stronger presence and connections at PVG,

They may have stronger international presence at PVG, but MU's international to domestic at PVG is almost non-existent.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting KFitz (Reply 16):
It's actually not a bad seat...has a nice sized monitor with AVOD

That is deffinitely not the seat I get when I fly from SFO on CA in J. To note, their J class on their 744 is different from their 74E.

This is more realastic what it looks like.



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Photo © Zuguang Lee




John@SFO
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 1):
Just a quick snap shot for this week's flights on AA show a 97.5% LF, 84% in premium cabins.

Load factors are not a particularly meaningful measurement of the success or profitability of a flight. Unless the flight is a complete disaster like DTW-HND almost all mainline flights to anywhere are very full. Aggressive yield management will ensure that. We are also getting into the summer travel season, so if the flights are not full now, they will never be.

Mainline load factors across the entire industry are well over 80%, I think approaching 85%. At the same time, the entire airline industry is losing money both on operations and as a whole so obviously most flights are full and most are losing money. The airlines are probably just holding on, hoping for fuel prices to drop again. If fuel stays high however, more aircraft will have to be grounded and fares will have to be pushed higher.


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