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Emirates And Africa  
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Emirates is expanding a lot, but we don´t usually have news about Emirates expanding, or adding frequencies to destinations in Africa.

Currently EK flies to CPT, JNB, Durban, ADD, NBO, DAR, LAD, EBB, LOS, ACC, ABJ, Dakar, Casablanca, ADD, Karthoum, CAI, TUN, Tripoli, Seychelles and Mauritius.

I know they are doing very well in some of this markets so, what are the plans for the continent??

What about flying to Kigali, maybe via EBB, actually EBB is via ADD. Harare, Maputo,Lusaka, Abuja, Malabo??

I see everyday the Emirates A345 at DAR, and they must be doing ok to use a 3 class plane to DAR, now QR is increasing to 12 weekly A320, Oman Air add more freqs, Turkish....

Increase to LAD?? I guess they are trying get more slots but It´s not easy with the authorities, almost every airlines is trying to....

Also some of the destinations can make a lot of money with the cargo.

DXB is in a very good place to connect Africa with Asia, maybe not that good for Europe.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

How much demand is it actually between those destinations you mentioned and Asia (and Europe)?

I admit that I have no idea of the demand, but my feeling is that many of those new destinations you mentioned would be better served by a QR/EY A32X. Of courese I can been wrong there. Could a member of the A320 family be able to make DOH-HRE?

I'm just not seeing a destination like Malabo being able to fill a A350 to DXB in the future. At least not when it has AF service to CDG.



Flown on: ATR72-5, Q300, E190, E195, A319/20/21, A332/3, 734/6/G/8, 744, 752/3, 763ER, 772ER/LR
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

LAD is to increase from 3 to 5 weekly!
Emirates To Increase Flights To Luanda, Angola (by ojas May 18 2011 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19220 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

Quoting migair54 (Thread starter):
maybe not that good for Europe.

Due to geography, some, like DKR and ABJ, aren't logical (the detour is huge, although I probably wouldn't mind if I had a temptingly low fare to compensate), but others, like SEZ, MRU, JNB, DUR, CPT, DAR, NBO, ADD, EBB, are. And, indeed, I suspect these get a good amount of traffic to/from Europe.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Quoting SomedayTrijet (Reply 1):
How much demand is it actually between those destinations you mentioned and Asia (and Europe)?

That´s why I ask, some people can add more acurate information, but KQ is doing quite good in some markets above mentioned.

Kigali is now having a flight from KLM via EBB to AMS, and the economy is growing fast. Same on some other destinations.

Links between Africa and Asia are very big specially with China, with huge investments in almos every country. Also many people going to CAN, PEK, BKK, Jakarta.....from east and south Africa to Asia and if you add some more pax to Europe and some more to America.... plus a good load of cargo... they can make very good, Emirates has a very good name and I´m sure many pax will fly them asap....

Quoting SomedayTrijet (Reply 1):
Could a member of the A320 family be able to make DOH-HRE?

They may do... but it will not easy.... with the A319ER, the same planes they use for CPH or they used to use to BCN....


User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5521 times:

I think indeed that on Africa, and then especially when it comes to West and Central Africa, EK (or in fact any other Gulf carrier) is facing a huge geographical handicap in relation to their European competitors.

Sure, they are on the ideal route from Asia to Africa, but realistically speaking, the bulk of intercontinental traffic to Africa is VFR and coming from Western Europe and the North American East coast: nobody living there is ever going to go from let's say AMS to ABJ via DXB, or from YYZ to LOS via DXB, unless for a really really super deal, but then given the track miles are about double (or more even), just how big a CASM difference do you need to have as a Gulf carrier before it makes any economic sense to do this?!

Even a theoretical A389 doesn't deliver sufficient CASM advantage against the oldest of 767s to make it work: EK will serve more destinations in Africa for sure, but they won't be having such an easy fight against the European airlines as on the Europe to Asia routes as here geography is completely against them, thus driving up the costs!

[Edited 2011-06-10 06:18:03]

User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Well I believe most destinations that fit EK's business model have already been taken up. Not every market can sustain a daily widebody profitably and all of their A332s are busy as it is. Operating to African destinations is probably also a big pain in the neck, with the unstable local currencies, the endless corruption and faux bureaucracy, the broken governments, the poverty and the crime.

Emirates are buying aircraft as fast as they can absorb them and apparently, other destinations are prioritized over additional African markets.

They could probably open another 10-15 or so destinations on the African continent if they operated A320/737 sized aircraft, used more tag ons and didn't operate all of them on a daily basis. But that's not what EK does. And for what they do, I find their success in Africa exceptional.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
the detour is huge, although I probably wouldn't mind if I had a temptingly low fare to compensate

A friend of mine did LHR-DXB-LOS-ACC with a 9hrs. lay over in Dubai. Only to save £120 compared to BA or VS non-stop. In hindsight he said he wouldn't do it again, especially since after his arrival in ACC, he enjoyed a 12hrs. bus ride to a village called 'Wa', but Africa is a price sensitive market. The flights won't be the big money makers, but you can fill them if have the critical mass.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

Quoting something (Reply 6):
but Africa is a price sensitive market. The flights won't be the big money makers, but you can fill them if have the critical mass.

Not sure of that... Just check the fares of AF to LBV, BZV, PNR, LAD, PHC. High yield routes, B773ER aircraft with First Class and the cheapest flight in Y will be around 1.000€...


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8326 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

EK already serves all significant markets in Africa. I don't think they have a plane to serve secondary markets. Unlike in the developed World where secondary markets still generate significant traffic, in Africa secondary markets generate very little traffic and EK's smallest plane is an A332 which is still too big. Of course, being EK they could probably operate to these smaller markets with an A332, with poor LF and still find a way to make a profit.
The other factor of course is geography. Most of the traffic to/from Africa is to/from Europe and DXB is way out of the way for that except maybe East Africa. Anyone who can affor high fares will take the shorter route leaving EK with a low yield passengers only.


User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Unlike in the developed World where secondary markets still generate significant traffic, in Africa secondary markets generate very little traffic

Well, That's not completly true as AF flies 77Ws to places like Port Harcourt. Of course, just because AF apperantly can fill a 77W doesn't mean that EK can do it too, but secondary market can generate some traffic.



Flown on: ATR72-5, Q300, E190, E195, A319/20/21, A332/3, 734/6/G/8, 744, 752/3, 763ER, 772ER/LR
User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Of course, being EK they could probably operate to these smaller markets with an A332, with poor LF and still find a way to make a profit.

Could you expand this? Why would EK be able to make a profit on those routes?

Quoting something (Reply 6):
They could probably open another 10-15 or so destinations on the African continent if they operated A320/737 sized aircraft, used more tag ons and didn't operate all of them on a daily basis

   I think this is the key here.



Flown on: ATR72-5, Q300, E190, E195, A319/20/21, A332/3, 734/6/G/8, 744, 752/3, 763ER, 772ER/LR
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8326 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Quoting SomedayTrijet (Reply 9):
Well, That's not completly true as AF flies 77Ws to places like Port Harcourt. Of course, just because AF apperantly can fill a 77W doesn't mean that EK can do it too, but secondary market can generate some traffic.

Sure, some traffic but not enough to/from Asia. As I said, most of the traffic to/from Africa is to/from Europe. CDG is in Europe, no? Why would anyone in their right mind fly between Europe and West Africa via DXB? The price would have to be ridiculously cheap.

Quoting SomedayTrijet (Reply 10):
Could you expand this? Why would EK be able to make a profit on those routes?

They appear to make money out of thin air so why not?


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

On some of the East Africa routes, a lot of the traffic is actually O&D - there are many Kenyan/Tanzanian workers throughout the Gulf, and a lot of Gulf-East Africa trade...I could see success with a narrow-body though.

I would not be surprised to see Lusaka at some point-growing tourism industry and an important resources market. It could work a few times a week with an A330-200.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Quoting migair54 (Thread starter):
now QR is increasing to 12 weekly A320,

QR is already double daily to DAR.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 4):
Links between Africa and Asia are very big specially with China, with huge investments in almos every country. Also many people going to CAN, PEK,

This is why specifically Lusaka, Malabo, and Maputo have a good chance of being started, especially the former. There are many Chinese enterprises in Zambia, both state and privately owned. Although they've (rightly) received some pretty bad press of late, the business links are there, and there's currently no good routing from PEK or PVG. EK could easily remedy that.



12 months:pvg hkg bkk doh mxp nce zrh iah lhr gva iad clt lax nrt sin mnl ceb del jai gay vns szx zuh mfm icn can
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13047 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4921 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
I don't think they have a plane to serve secondary markets. Unlike in the developed World where secondary markets still generate significant traffic, in Africa secondary markets generate very little traffic and EK's smallest plane is an A332 which is still too big.

EK's partial service and cargo is helping them more than many give them credit in Africa. With the *huge* China-Africa trade, EK has a decent niche cut out.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
As I said, most of the traffic to/from Africa is to/from Europe.

I do not argue with that. But with some destinations having enough Chinese demand, filling the final seats with discounted European flights helps make the routes viable. EK also competes on the Australia to Africa markets which are heavily driven by mineral extraction companies.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
On some of the East Africa routes, a lot of the traffic is actually O&D - there are many Kenyan/Tanzanian workers throughout the Gulf, and a lot of Gulf-East Africa trade...I could see success with a narrow-body though.

Don´t forget the thousands fo indians and chineses, indians, and Asiatics living and with business in Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Zambia, Rwanda.....

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
It could work a few times a week with an A330-200.

Exactly, they can fly 3 or 4 times a week to a destination and 3 or 4 to another and so on with a A332 in 2 class config... they don´t need to fly everyday....

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
with poor LF and still find a way to make a profit.

All depends on the yields and the cargo....


User currently offlinesoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Ive done LHR-DXB-LOS-ACC before
Many of my friends travel LAX-DXB-ACC or IAH-DXB-ACC.
Sometimes it is hard to find seats on ACC-DXB.



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlinelukeyboy95 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 1092 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Leave this market to QR and the major African carriers... but these seriously rapid growing economies will call on Emirates in the long-term.


Breaking down the stereotypes - one by one
User currently offlinepzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

I wonder why no one from the ME carriers has spotted Madagascar as a destination. No one else flies there but AF and Air Madagascar (which is completely useless). DXB, AUH, BAH or DOH fit perfectly as a connecting point to Madagascar from North America and Europe, just as they do fly to Seychelles or Mauritius.

Would love to see this service coming...

What do you think?



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

I could see a service to TNR work, but only on a QR A319LR.


Flown on: ATR72-5, Q300, E190, E195, A319/20/21, A332/3, 734/6/G/8, 744, 752/3, 763ER, 772ER/LR
User currently offlinesouthernstar From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Why would you fly from Cpt/jnb to Europe with EK?

Adding 15-18hrs to your journey....what, to save £80 odd. Don't get it


User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Wait, adding 18 hours???

How did you get that number? And if you're from a city that does not have a direct service to CPT/JNB, you don't lose that much time connecting in DXB.



Flown on: ATR72-5, Q300, E190, E195, A319/20/21, A332/3, 734/6/G/8, 744, 752/3, 763ER, 772ER/LR
User currently offlinesouthernstar From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Cpt/LHR/Cpt= 11hr30. BA. Rtn = 23hr

Cpt/dxb/LHR/dxb/LHR 16hr35 rtn = 33hr10

This does not account for connection times. Maths done!


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 18):
Leave this market to QR and the major African carriers... but these seriously rapid growing economies will call on Emirates in the long-term.

it´s not only Africa to Europe...... it´s obvios that almost nobody can compete with direct carriers on that segment... But Africa and Asia are such a fast growing economies that sooner or later it will be a huge boom..... I´m not only talking about pax but also about cargo and mail.

Quoting SomedayTrijet (Reply 20):
I could see a service to TNR work, but only on a QR A319LR.

Maybe but difficult, I don´t know how´s the political situation in Madagascar, but It was not very stable a few months ago. Basically all the locals living abroad are in France or USA.


25 signol : Going double daily in October. Should stay with the A330. signol
26 lukeyboy95 : Note sure about this information... well, when you take regional UK airports, it becomes alot more convenient. I feel sure the flight time is only a
27 Post contains images afriwing : They could, but the A332 and A345 suit them better because of cargo capacity. You'll be surprised how successful those Africa routes are to EK and QR
28 SomedayTrijet : Yes, for LON and some other big cities this might be true. But LON does not account for Europe. For anything in the northern/eastern part of Europe i
29 CXfirst : London, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, yes, it is longer (but also the timing of the flights might not be the greates). But, if you live in Manchester, Bi
30 cv990coronado : EK usually has only one transfer from CPT and DUR to numerous cities in Europe and US/Far East. This avoids JNB which many people from the coast don't
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