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YYZ Looking For Major International Growth  
User currently offlineKLSMB From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 35 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11362 times:

Toronto Pearson Airport unveiled a total "rebranding" of the entire airport image a few days ago, including an overhauled website, a new logo, and enhanced customer services among other things. According to the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, it is all being done in a bid to make YYZ the primary international hub for North America.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...ound-for-foreign-destinations?bn=1

I use Toronto Pearson frequently, and it's clear that the airport already has a decent amount of international service from foreign airlines, as well as of course being the largest hub for Air Canada. The goal to surpass the likes of JFK, LAX and ORD to become the main international gateway to North America is admirable, but seems fairly unlikely.

It's is well known that YYZ is one of the most expensive airports in the world for airlines to operate to/from (although to be fair, those fees have recently been reduced). There's also the generally high tax environment in Canada that will always make it a more expensive destination for airlines and passengers as opposed to airports south of the border in the USA.

Realistically I wonder how much more growth YYZ can expect to see in the foreseeable future. Other than MS and ET possibly opening new routes, what other international service can Toronto Pearson be looking to attract that it doesn't already have?

[Edited 2011-06-10 23:35:55]

114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4169 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11297 times:

A year round route to Dublin would be one!

I find it strange that this market can support up to 3 daily flights in summer but not even a single weekly service in winter!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11251 times:

Do pax need a transit visa for Canada??? That´s one of the advantage I can see over JFK, ORD, LAX,DFW for pax to caribbean and central America. the other one is that YYZ is much less crowded than the others....

But being so expensive it´s a huge handicap....


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8806 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11234 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Do pax need a transit visa for Canada???

South American pax do require transit visas to transit via Canadian airports.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11219 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Do pax need a transit visa for Canada???

I didn't, and I highly recommend YYZ as a transit point for travelling across the Atlantic.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2864 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11006 times:

Quoting KLSMB (Thread starter):
what other international service can Toronto Pearson be looking to attract that it doesn't already have?

The U.S. LCCs, which have so far balked at serving the airport because

Quoting KLSMB (Thread starter):
YYZ is one of the most expensive airports in the world for airlines to operate to/from

and

Quoting KLSMB (Thread starter):
more expensive destination for airlines and passengers as opposed to airports south of the border

Imagine what would happen to the airport if they got WN to start flying to YYZ, even if it was just a small start (say, MDW and BWI) at first. B6 would also be great, what with all the connections to Florida and the Caribbean they could offer through BOS and JFK.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10961 times:

How can YYZ push for more international service when getting traffic rights to YYZ is so difficult? Isn't ET having problems getting rights?

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10899 times:
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If Pearson wants to be the airport of choice for North America, they need to do a much better job of advertising the new "quick connect" service coming for passengers connecting through YYZ on the way to the US.

Passengers connecting at T1 will be able to clear US customs without retrieving their luggage first. Instead, bags will be transferred to a dedicated section of the luggage hall where they will be photographed so US CBP officers can look at them as passengers go through. If officers want to have a better look, they'll be able to request the luggage be brought up for manual inspection, but for the over 90% of people who go through US customs without anyone peeking inside their luggage, they'll never have to deal with their bags.

The procedure is already in place in YEG and YUL, where I got to try it very recently, and along with a dedicated transfer corridor that makes it unnecessary to clear Canadian immigration and customs if coming from overseas, this makes it much easier to clear US customs than at any US airport.

I'm sure it will be rolled out to airports in the US eventually, but for now I'd milk this for all they can.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineaircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

If Toronto wants to attract growth and open up new destinations they should reduce landing fees by 40% or more to attract more foreigners and funnel more traffic through Toronto from North America and all over the world. And of course more advertisement...

User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10681 times:

For US citizens YYZ is a great transfer point; however, the added int'l taxes will continue to keep US-based folks cx over US cities. Trips to Europe are a great example. I often look for cx via YYZ or YUL yet find the taxes add up compared to a cx at PHL, ORD, BOS, etc. And I'm not even one of the "book the lowest possible" people.


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1917 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10598 times:

Quoting aircanada014 (Reply 8):
they should reduce landing fees by 40% or more to attract more foreigners and funnel more traffic through Toronto from North America and all over the world. And of course more advertisement...

Bingo, those are the two main things YYZ needs to do. Not counting the operating fees of YYZ the tax situation in Canada for connecting passengers is really outrageous, many times I look and see that AC is really pushing for connections on TATL flights but the taxes are sometimes equivalent to the actual airfare! So that situation really needs to be amended. Additionally YYZ, or the Canadian government, needs to advertise more to US travelers about the simplicity of connecting through Canada, many are unaware that it's hardly more complex than connecting in the US but are scared away because they are unsure, so some advertising about the connection process would also be extremely helpful.


User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10583 times:

So long as YYZ has stratospheric landing fees (and other fees) AND
so long as taxes and fees on tickets remain some of the most expensive in the world AND
so long as YYZ is not the daily (or twice daily) destination for EK, then
YYZ will never been the international destination of choice for all of North America.

What are the odds all three of these conditions are eliminated?

It seems to me that this boils down to the delusional idea that Toronto is a "World Class" city. By Canadian standards, it certainly is, that is why it is the destination of choice for inbound Canadian fliers. But for North America????

This delusion can sometimes be embarrassing. This is one of those times.


User currently onlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4426 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10538 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 6):
How can YYZ push for more international service when getting traffic rights to YYZ is so difficult?

It took TK decades to get rights to YYZ and TK is not allowed to fly daily.


User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10525 times:

IMO the low fares and lower taxes in the US is going to die out soon enough. You don't have a debt problem without raising taxes and airfare tends to be an easy target. With an ATC system that requires updating as well, my guess is that the fare difference over the next 2 years will be eroded and more inline with Canada. Not because the Americans want too, but more because they have too if they plan on paying those treasury bills.

YYZ is well positioned to have an upswing in International traffic but because of Canada's strict policy regarding international airlines flying here it'll be a slow growth and this will take years to achieve. Good luck to them though!


User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 5):
The U.S. LCCs, which have so far balked at serving the airport because
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 5):
Imagine what would happen to the airport if they got WN to start flying to YYZ, even if it was just a small start (say, MDW and BWI) at first. B6 would also be great, what with all the connections to Florida and the Caribbean they could offer through BOS and JFK.

We would welcome them, US LCC's can't be stopped from serving YYZ due to an the Canada US open skies agreement. Canada can't and won't stop them.

However they have to compete with AC whom offers a more extensive US route network than WN and B6 on their own (or what they would devote their resources to YYZ). Also WS and AC (plus several US carriers) serve these routes already and unless they are going to absorb the costs of running trans-border routes then they are not going to offer anything that isn't there already.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 10):
Bingo, those are the two main things YYZ needs to do. Not counting the operating fees of YYZ the tax situation in Canada for connecting passengers is really outrageous, many times I look and see that AC is really pushing for connections on TATL flights but the taxes are sometimes equivalent to the actual airfare!

As a Canadian (living in Melbourne) I personally prefer that the people who fly pay the taxes necessary to operate airports. It sucks for the frequent fliers but you are the ones using the airports the most therefore you should pay more towards the costs of operating them.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 12):
It took TK decades to get rights to YYZ and TK is not allowed to fly daily.

While that might be true blame the Canadian feds for it and not the GTAA. I reckon that the GTAA supports EK getting unlimited rights but they don't make the call on what slots specific countries are allotted, That's is the decision of the Federal government.

TK will get more rights in time.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7573 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10390 times:

I would love to see AM return to YYZ. At the moment, only AC flies nonstop YYZ-MEX (MX went bust).


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10272 times:

The airport is hamstrung by expensive leases with the federal government and the doubling of taxes and fees on transborder flights. Flying from Buffalo to somewhere in the US you pay a US security fee. Flying Toronto to the US you pay both a Canadian and US security fee and a Canadian and US customs fee. A one dollar ticket ends up being more than $100 and that has nothing to do with landing fees which cover more of the services the airport provides than other airports so even there an apples to apples comparison is not being made. I don't know why we are forced to pay for these things... when you cross the border in a car there is no customs fee, and when other crimes are committed and you need security you don't pay an extra security fee. Governments just seem to treat the airline industry as a cash cow and milk it. All the costs of running an airline should be in the fare, and all the costs of security should be covered in normal taxes. It keeps getting more and more ridiculous with cheap airfares that don't include security, customs, baggage, meal, fuel for the aircraft, air traffic control, etc. How long before you pay a pilot fee, a flight attendant fee, a spoiler deployment fee, need to put a quarter in your seat to recline, etc.

User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10179 times:

I've always wondered what exactly the purpose of transit visas was. Without a visa, you won't make it past immigration anyway. And as long as the airport facility is a sterile area, what's the (legal) difference between an airplane overflying Canadian airspace and the same people of that aircraft, waiting inside a sterile area of the airport?


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinekrisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

International growth is the most logical market for YYZ to go after. A lot of Canadians in the GTA use BUF to fly to US destinations due to the MASSIVE price difference. MA and OK are the two carriers that have ceased ops to YYZ in the recent past. LH and BA have also somewhat downgraded their service by utilizing smaller aircraft. AC is doing well on the Asian routes out of YYZ so i think that is a possible area for expansion. I personally would love to see AC or TS expand to some PRG, BUD or some other eastern European airport.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25177 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10026 times:

The success of YYZ goes hand in hand with the actions of the Federal government.

Until the time Canada adopts a much more liberal attitude towards traffic rights, and also overhauls(reduces) the heavy tax and fee burden that in place today, Toronto will not have the opportunity to attract masses of air services and passengers that go along with it, particularly a vibrant non-local 3rd nation transfer traffic.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1917 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9980 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 13):
IMO the low fares and lower taxes in the US is going to die out soon enough. You don't have a debt problem without raising taxes and airfare tends to be an easy target. With an ATC system that requires updating as well, my guess is that the fare difference over the next 2 years will be eroded and more inline with Canada. Not because the Americans want too, but more because they have too if they plan on paying those treasury bills.

Taxes on airfare in the US will never approach what it is in Canada. There are some infrastructure issues and, as of now, no coherent solution for the debt has been put forward; however, taxes will probably be raised in certain areas, but nowhere near the levels that we see in Canada. People in the US are fickle when it comes to air travel and will just as soon not fly if the taxes are that high. The drop in traffic and, by extension, the drop in activities associated with air traffic as well as job losses would negate or surpass any revenue new taxes would bring in.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 14):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 10):
Bingo, those are the two main things YYZ needs to do. Not counting the operating fees of YYZ the tax situation in Canada for connecting passengers is really outrageous, many times I look and see that AC is really pushing for connections on TATL flights but the taxes are sometimes equivalent to the actual airfare!

As a Canadian (living in Melbourne) I personally prefer that the people who fly pay the taxes necessary to operate airports. It sucks for the frequent fliers but you are the ones using the airports the most therefore you should pay more towards the costs of operating them.

You're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but that is an attitude of slow to no growth. Ever hear the saying that you have to spend money to make money? Canada is perfectly entitled to place all the restrictions and taxes they desire on air travel, but they'll just be deluding themselves if they expect YYZ to become the 'primary gateway to north america' with that kind of policy. It is a shame though, YYZ is a great facility and Toronto is a vibrant and growing city, it's just unfortunate that the government in Canada just as soon limits the number of non-stops from Toronto that could be possible just because AC isn't flying it or because they want to shield AC from competition.


User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):
Taxes on airfare in the US will never approach what it is in Canada. There are some infrastructure issues and, as of now, no coherent solution for the debt has been put forward; however, taxes will probably be raised in certain areas, but nowhere near the levels that we see in Canada. People in the US are fickle when it comes to air travel and will just as soon not fly if the taxes are that high. The drop in traffic and, by extension, the drop in activities associated with air traffic as well as job losses would negate or surpass any revenue new taxes would bring in.

As the U.S. debt levels rapidly approaxh 100% of GDP you will have no choice but to raise revenue. The fantasy that cutting a trillion dollars per year from U.S. government spending each year is the only solution will inevitably come to an end during the next couple of years.

I wouldn't be surprised to see U.S. avaition fees/taxes soon approach Canadian levels. It is way easier to grab cash from frequent flying businessmen than it is to cut senior citizen pension and health benefits. Canadian politicians figured this out years ago. That is one of the reasons that our deficit spending maxed out at around 3% of GDP during the recession and not 10% like in the states. We are now on track to balance the Federal budget by 2014. In the states there is no plan to balance the budget at all. Something has to give and quickly. The economic reprecusions of letting the debt spin out of control will make the recession of 2008 look like a walk in the park.

I hate paying taxes as much as anybody but unfortunately airports aren't free and the cost should be borne mostly by the users IMHO.


User currently offlineKLSMB From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9429 times:

AC or NZ to AKL, AC or SA to JNB and AC to BOM are all on my wish list .....

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 11):
It seems to me that this boils down to the delusional idea that Toronto is a "World Class" city. By Canadian standards, it certainly is, that is why it is the destination of choice for inbound Canadian fliers. But for North America????

This delusion can sometimes be embarrassing. This is one of those times.

I don't think it's worth getting into an argument whether Toronto is a "World Class" city or not. It's a historical national pastime for people in Canada not living in Toronto to bash it for several reasons, and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. But whether you love the city or you hate it, it is the largest city in Canada by a wide margin. There is no denying a few facts :

-With 2.5 million residents in the city proper, Toronto is the 5th largest city in North America after Mexico City, New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago
-Urban area population is 5.5 million, and "Golden Horseshoe" metropolitan area population is 8.1 million, almost one quarter of Canada's population. That's a huge O&D market.
-It is a major centre for finance and corporate business, and enjoys a relatively healthy economic environment.
-Toronto is one of the fastest growing cities in the G8 and is also consistently rated as one of the best cities in the world in which to live.

Of course it has it's downfalls as does every city, but overall I'd say it's a pretty desirable place.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):
It is a shame though, AC isn't flying it or because they want to shield AC from competition

Are you referring to the EK issue or just the Canadian government policies in general? They've recently signed many new bilateral agreements with countries around the world (there is over 70 airlines operating at Pearson), but you're right that they tread very carefully and come across as being protectionist.


[Edited 2011-06-11 15:12:52]

User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1812 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9418 times:

AC to MAN please!   One can hope i suppose!


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinecyxuk From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9064 times:

AC to DME (or SVO) would be a route I think we can expect to see in the future. UN flies this twice weekly already..

As for being the hub of North America, probably not, but It does have so much more potential; there are a massive number of people in the catchment area and it is the economic engine of Canada which is a top 10 economy in the world.


25 par13del : The US has funds already set aside for ATC improvements etc. , getting the congress to allocate them is another story, fund was built up from existin
26 BlueJuice : In the US, airlines are big business. Big business always have plenty of lobbyists. You can be sure those lobbyists are lining the pockets of politic
27 Post contains links Viscount724 : In highly seasonal markets like Ireland, it's more efficient not to operate during the winter since operating 2 or 3 times a week is very expensive a
28 gilesdavies : Well the situation with Air Canada and the Canadian government giving them almost 100% protectionism doesn't help Toronto's case! The restrictions the
29 par13del : If you increase the tax on transit pax for primarily local issues - what is the tax for - then you provide a business incentive for some other airpor
30 Post contains links Viscount724 : YYZ reduced its AIF (airport improvement fee) for connecting passengers from $8 to $4 in January. Landing fees and certain other charges were also re
31 anrec80 : Lol. Here comes the next round of discussion "Canada vs. EK". I agree with these 2 folks - the statement "Canada with its O&D policy on landing r
32 Viscount724 : The current Canada-UAE bilateral already includes 5th freedom rights beyond Canada to the US (or any other countries) for the designated carriers of
33 mpsrent : I'll second that. There are now too few options between YYZ and MAN. Essentially it is Air Transat or Air Transat. Not sure what happened with the Th
34 shamrock604 : I understand the point, but I find it very hard to believe that up to 3 aircraft per day can be filled during summer and none during winter! It reall
35 anrec80 : On the other hand, the US now spends a lot of money, but we do not see a lot of money made there unfortunately. And this is the source of the problem
36 flyguy89 : That is a battle yet to be decided as far as where spending cuts will be made and what taxes, if any, will be increased, the rest is your opinion but
37 RVV2011 : That's all well and good but it's the airlines that decide whether it makes sense to fly to YYZ. Even if GTAA rolls out the red carpet, no one might s
38 KLSMB : The link in my original post is to a story in which the GTAA outlines some specific ideas that they are taking from airports around the world (Copenh
39 Post contains links anrec80 : 82% - can we see the link to the source please? This article (though coming from China) mentions Canada being at 43% - doing pretty well by today's W
40 Post contains images anrec80 : One more thing - never say never. In this world, things change very rapidly, and the situation may be different even by the time we get to say anythi
41 Post contains images flythere : Some rumour here says CX may add more flights to YYZ on top of current 2 daily 77W.
42 heathrow : I find it funny the name of the article as free wifi and valet have been offered for quite some time now. I fly through YYZ quite frequently, and with
43 StarAC17 : But as said airports aren't free, where should that money come from other than the most frequent users it the most rational approach. Why should the
44 Post contains images Kaiarahi : I don't know where you got that number - Canada's net public debt as a percentage of GDP is 34% (OECD country surveys). It's been descending since 19
45 Kaiarahi : Historically, Canada has had a high number of refugee claimants arriving by air. If a visa is required, they don't get on the flight without one. If
46 airbazar : Expensive landing fees and high taxes. I keep hearing this but have yet to see real numbers. I don't doubt that landing fees are high but landing fees
47 escapehere : The difference is that Canada has the capacity to pay its debts. Its healthcare costs are kept well intact by the government playing a major role in
48 jfk777 : I don't know where you folks get your MRI prices, but while $2000, is the price quoted any insured person or Medicare(US) pays less. Medicare rate in
49 Post contains links escapehere : I'm going by based on what I've seen during my visits to various facilities in the US (I work in radiology), however I have no idea how the US insura
50 Quokka : Many of the above posts are interesting in so far as they highlight differences in approach to various issues, but to be honest I do not see their rel
51 Post contains links flyguy89 : The source for Canada's debt/GDP ratio is the IMF which actually lists it at 84%, see link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...o-unnoticed-at-imf
52 par13del : Probably the start of the discussion comparing overall country cost versus specific airport and infrastructure cost.
53 brilondon : You have to realize the political climate flying into Canada from where ever is difficult to say the least. The barriers to coming to Canada and YYZ
54 Post contains links YTZ : People are mixing up the policy of YYZ wants to be a North American hub, does not mean that the federal government will support them. I doubt they wil
55 bjorn14 : They already have by their taxes and fees. Does any US LCC serve Canada?
56 CPDC10-30 : First of all, as a former Torontonian, I do hope that the airport grows its traffic. It always seems underutilized every time I go through - there is
57 par13del : Was it really put in place only to benefit AC or to stimulate traffic between the two countiries, as with any agreement, the ultimate goal is that ai
58 Post contains links anrec80 : Not much rosier really. I encourage you to look at the original IMF report and see the definitions of Gross Debt and Net Debt, and the numbers in the
59 Kaiarahi : Let's compare apples and apples. You're comparing Canadian federal + provincial public debt with U.S. federal only debt - if state debt were included
60 Skywatcher : How about this scenario for the next 2 years; U.S. debt vs. GDP continues to climb in U.S. by 10%/yr. until it surpasses 100% (this is for sure to hap
61 StarAC17 : Bingo!! That's why the frequencies are what they are also AC has nothing to gain by serving DXB or AUH or even using by operating 5th freedom routes
62 Post contains links Viscount724 : Not correct. Ultra-LCC Spirit Airlines (NK) operates about 35 A319/320/321s (with a similar number on order) from the US to over 20 international des
63 flyguy89 : It is apples to apples. The article cites the IMF measure of Canadian debt at 84% of GDP and the US at 92% using the same metric and the figures were
64 Carfield : I actually feel that in order for YYZ to move on, it has to introduce the streamline style of Canada to US transit style in Terminal Three (and when T
65 KLSMB : Pearson really needs to start providing free baggage carts. In an airport that has a lot of passengers arriving from long haul flights (and is wanting
66 par13del : Well the luggage carts may be minor but when added to the other issues for connecting pax such as actually having to collect your bags it becomes ted
67 txkf2010 : One thing for sure GTAA needs to do severely at YYZ is fix the connection process. Having to go through customs and pick up your bag and drop it on an
68 YTZ : Hmmm. You do know that the government has re-imposed restrictions on CMHC right? You can no longer get 35 year mortgages. And you the restrictions on
69 AM744 : Yes. Although free, it still involves paperwork and time.
70 RVV2011 : Another point not mentioned is that YYZ has the misfortune to be located next to the US. The US dictates what sort of security perimeter exists around
71 hohd : I think the immigration officials worry about passengers claiming refugee status after arriving in Canada. With the transit visa, that claim is not p
72 Post contains images Kaiarahi :
73 par13del : Prior to 9/11, most pax intransit thru the US received visas sometimes for 30 days, hence most gateway airports did not need intransit sections since
74 WABENNER : Many of those markets in sun destinations already have low fare service from YYZ on AirTransat or SunWings. The stimulation would come from low fares
75 anrec80 : Probably so. However, it may be done only after having a balanced budget and being able to maintain it that way with lower taxes. But not before that
76 flyguy89 : I agree but you're talking about politicians, I was talking about US citizens. There is much debate going on currently but many polls show that most
77 mogandoCI : Canada is a great place to transit between US and Asia or Europe, all things being equal. Only downside is that when inbound from Asia/Europe, you'll
78 RVV2011 : What intrigues me is that other countries have social security and socialized health care, yet they are not on the financial brink as much as is the
79 Kaiarahi : If s/he is a genuine refugee, s/he would not have been given a visa. If s/he is not a refugee, there's a record of that in the electronic visa file t
80 anrec80 : IHO, at this time it's past the point when you can solve these fiscal woes with spending cuts alone. That will imply that *EVERYTHING*, beginning wit
81 anrec80 : I said "probably", which implies doing exact math based on supply-demand and see if it indeed turns out to be the case. And it's far from always the
82 Kaiarahi : Nothing. But there's an electronic visa application file which demonstrates that they're not a refugee, which makes for a short refusal process. You'
83 Post contains images anrec80 : Cool. Good to hear that our border is locked securely .
84 YTZ : Nothing. And they would have to get a hearing. What transit visas prevent, are people who flush their docs down the toilet having successful claims.
85 Post contains links YTZ : Hundreds of percentage points in 10 years? Where do you get this? That's definitely not true. But even if it was, the crux of the problem is that the
86 YTZ : I don't want to sound anti-American and I most certainly am not (there's a lot to admire in the American spirit), but in all my experiences with rela
87 Kaiarahi : It's been ramped up, but CIC started posting ICOs (Immigration Control Officers) to countries that were funnels for illegals about 15 years ago. In a
88 flyguy89 : Yes defense along with entitlements is one of the top 3 and while I don't categorically believe that defense spending should be gutted, there are mos
89 YTZ : That's just CIC. What is new is the posting abroad of personnel from other agencies which have far more ummm "resources".
90 YTZ : @flyguy89 We can agree to end the discussion. There is no need to delve writ large into the mess that is US budgetary politics. To be clear, I (and I
91 travelin man : Can we get back to talking about YYZ and how/if it can become the premier transit airport in North America? I read the article which talks about thing
92 YTZ : @traveling man, I've always seen the hub aimed less at the US than at the Carribean, South and Central America, connecting to Europe. YYZ has some goo
93 travelin man : I guess I just don't see the market. Europe to South America is well-served by non-stop flights between the two continents. Connecting in Canada woul
94 Viscount724 : However not everyone is flying between the major O&D markets. There are flights between YYZ and many smaller US cities that have no or very minim
95 Flyguy89 : This is true, especially concerning long-haul, AC is seldom the most expensive and usually offers competitive enough fares. But when seeing the fare
96 Viscount724 : You're overlooking the fuel surcharge (currently $420) which is really part of the fare and goes to AC along with the base fare amounts. It's just sh
97 Flyguy89 : That makes muuuuch more sense, I wonder why they apply that separately? Most other airlines just seem to include it in the fare line, but I guess for
98 anrec80 : My observation is that each airline breaks fare and fuel surcharges as they want. For LH for example it's also not uncommon to have fuel surcharges e
99 pnd100 : In my opinion Canada & AC do not do enough to capitalize on our nation's diversity. We have people from all corners of the world & yet we do n
100 Viscount724 : Agree. It's largely meaningless now, especially in Europe and various other parts of the world where it's been a legal requirement for several years
101 RVV2011 : The problem here is that AC's further expansion in Europe would strain this alliance and hurt mainly LH, which wouldn't go over very well. However th
102 pnd100 : Exactly! Star seems to be a very tiered alliance with LH, CO/UA, SQ on top & the rest doing their best to keep them well fed. I agree that Europe
103 Post contains images StarAC17 : Its a question of what do they have available in their fleet to work with and what routes make them the most money. Eastern Europe would be nice and
104 anrec80 : The goal of YYZ becoming a major hub must not only include a strong flag carrier based in it, but also a great variety of other carriers with as many
105 Post contains images pnd100 : I agree that 787s are key. When speaking to AC staff that seems to be the company motto - wait until we get our 787s. I hope so. Understood. But now
106 pnwtraveler : Once the cross Atlantic Alliance with LH, UA, and AC is fully functioning, it won't matter which metal you are flying on, all carriers will be sellin
107 par13del : An impressive list of cities which can provide feed, the big question now is how much promotion does AC do in these cities, I know this is a discussi
108 Viscount724 : With current political unrest in neighboring Syria, I can't see that happening anytime soon. DAM is only 57 nm from BEY.
109 Viscount724 : They've had a revenue-sharing JV for several years.
110 StarAC17 : AC has the rights to fly do DXB if they want to and IIRC the UAE has even offered them 5th freedom rights. The fact is that AC would rather use allia
111 flyyul : AC only has 18 777s. To serve JED/DXB/AKL etc it would have to sacrifice something else (which may be more profitable). I am certain that the planning
112 Viscount724 : AC also operated YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN for several years in the 1980s/90s, using both the L-1011 and 747. In my opinion, AC is only a small element in the
113 Post contains images pnd100 : Perhaps a first time flyer will not care what airline they are on. I also would not care if all airlines were equal service / fare, etc. The fact is
114 ManekS : I think we'll see a Singapore to Canada service once the 787's are delivered to SQ/AC. There is enough O&D to warrant a 3/week service from YVR (I
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