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Update On California Pacific Airlines  
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Yesterday there was an article in the SD Union/Trib updating the ongoing attempts to get CP Air off the ground in North San Diego County (out of CLD.) There were a couple of interesting things and I thought there might be some interest in the subject -- there usually is here on A.net. Here's the link:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...e-prepares-takeoff-carlsbad-field/

>The group is hoping for an early 2012 launch date, awaiting "only" FAA certification.
>The new COO and President of the airline is none other than Lawrence "Bud" Sittig, formerly of Delta and SkyBus.
>MEX has apparently now joined SJD as a soon-to-be-added international destination. (Hmmmmm.)
>The long-term list of destinations is now at about 26, although a complete list of these planned markets is not presented. (No shortage of optimism here!)

Nothing real major reported except maybe the announcement of Sittig to run the show and get CP Air launched.

I continue to wish Mr. Vallas (now 90 years old!) the best of luck getting this operation up and going. And, IMO, they have a very good chance of getting launched, AND of making a success of this. Fingers crossed!

bb

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7031 times:

Thanks for the update S'fan. I was just thinking about them the other day. I'd like to take their inaugural flight up to the bay area when they are up and running but it looks like a few more months. I wish them luck.

'990



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6952 times:

Hey D! Glad to see you're still keeping an eye on things around here.

Yeah, I'm still excited about this and especially if the fuel costs stabilize somewhere for a while, I think CP Air has a good chance of success. See you on that inaugural flight!

bb


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6903 times:

The more times goes on the less enthused I am becoming with the pie in the sky ideas.

The E170 has become an ever more difficult aircraft to make money on at at a growing number of airlines for in house scheduled operations at higher fuel cost. And its not like CP will be driving more miraculous revenue premium compared to other airlines to help on the other side of the ledger.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 758 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6862 times:
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Although I'm very optimistic that CPAir will take to the skies, but I'm still curious about those
E-170s having the range to make SJD, and now MEX from CLD? Even if CLD's runway was extended,
do they have the legs? SJD and MEX is quite a trek from CLD, unless they plan to do a tech stop at SAN.
I'm really pulling for CPAir to make it. CLD needs more air service from that beautiful new terminal!



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6691 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 4):
Although I'm very optimistic that CPAir will take to the skies, but I'm still curious about those
E-170s having the range to make SJD, and now MEX from CLD?

Morning L. I'm confused about MEX being mentioned as well; seems to me that a different Mexican destination has been mentioned in the past, or maybe it's just been SJD all along. Anyway, at this point, I don't pay too much attention to the destinations talked about, except for the first 5 (SMF, SJC, OAK, LAS & PHX), which seem to remain pretty consistent and realistic. The more distant ones (mileage-wise as well as time-wise) seem to change periodically and some have been real head-scratchers from both a range and need perspective.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
The E170 has become an ever more difficult aircraft to make money on at at a growing number of airlines for in house scheduled operations at higher fuel cost. And its not like CP will be driving more miraculous revenue premium compared to other airlines to help on the other side of the ledger.

You're right about the aircraft of choice; it may prove to be a real headache, or perhaps the economic environment will change by early next year and things will actually be better for this operation. And of course these are leased a/c for the start-up so maybe the group will decide to go with something different once they see what kind of business and fare structure they have to work with.

As for a "more miraculous revenue premium compared to other airlines", just maybe the situation at CLD (and lack of any competition there) will be just enough to allow CP Air an advantage they need to make it.

No question it has been, and continues to be, a tough process, in a real rough environment, but many of us here are hopeful, and rooting, for CP Air.

bb


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6598 times:

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
>The long-term list of destinations is now at about 26, although a complete list of these planned markets is not presented. (No shortage of optimism here!)

Too bad the list isn't available. Now this got my curiosity......


User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

I too am optomistic, however, originally they said they would be flying by the end of 2010, then it was moved to spring of 2011, now its 2012.

They must be having some real issues with getting approved for a certificate, as their application has been ongoing for quite sometime. If they were buying new E170's from Embraer -they have a department that assists in getting certifications for new carriers starting out as far as manuals, proceedures, policies etc. with their aircraft, and according to the officials in their employ experience levels are not at all lacking.

Generally a new president appointed prior to certifications indicates there was problems with the previous, although that is not always the case, or the financial stability of documents presented are not checkingout.


User currently offlinewnbob From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

California Pacific? That's what I call redundant.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6177 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
As for a "more miraculous revenue premium compared to other airlines", just maybe the situation at CLD (and lack of any competition there) will be just enough to allow CP Air an advantage they need to make it.

I'd put money on the table that CP will not have a revenue premium at CLD compared to carriers at SAN. (we can measure DOT numbers against SWA if the time ever comes)

Unless you happen to live near Carlsbad, they will have to market to the broader San Diego metro area an Southern OC. To get people to utilize CLD instead of SAN or SNA in case of OC, they will have to induce them with low fares to make up for the lack of branding, frequency and mileage tie-ins compared to someone like SWA for instance.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Unless you happen to live near Carlsbad, they will have to market to the broader San Diego metro area an Southern OC. To get people to utilize CLD instead of SAN or SNA in case of OC, they will have to induce them with low fares to make up for the lack of branding, frequency and mileage tie-ins compared to someone like SWA for instance.

I would agree with your assessment there. I really dont think they are going to garner the premium fare they think they will. The northern areas of SAN, and OC are just as fare sensitive as most other California cities. The argument about airport parking, travelling to and from an airport etc, is quickly forgetten when a series of fares appear on the screen.

While they are very brave, I do believe they would be better suited to try and operate this as a code share with another major airline and be autonomous with their fare structure.


User currently offlinePI767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Quoting wnbob (Reply 8):
California Pacific? That's what I call redundant.

How is that any more redundant than Pacific Western, Western Pacific, Pacific Cal Air, etc?


User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 985 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

well they keep submitting management changes to the DOT Economic folks... so not sure how far along they really are on that side of the equation....


xx
User currently offlinecoopdogyo From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5769 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 4):
but I'm still curious about those
E-170s having the range to make SJD, and now MEX from CLD?

Depending on the Mtow of the E170's they get the E170 has a max range of 2100nm which means that it can easily make it 800 miles to SJD. It should also be able to do MEX. The real question is can the plane operate the route profitably. MEX is a long route for such a small plane and it will be difficult to make a profit.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5710 times:
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Quoting PI767 (Reply 11):
Pacific Cal Air, etc?

Wow, someone else that remembers ol' AX lol.
As for CalifPac I hope that they get in the air and are successful. I don't see these delays as much of an issue. Seems as it may make good sense to wait for better economy to begin in earnest.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Why would CPSA go with ERJ175s? Wouldn't an old 737 be better? I would think that traffic would be high going up and down the west coast, if that's their intended market.


From the airport with love
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5659 times:

Quoting coopdogyo (Reply 13):
Depending on the Mtow of the E170's they get the E170 has a max range of 2100nm which means that it can easily make it 800 miles to SJD.

You realize CLD has a short 4,800ft runway right?

Even corporate planes often have issues making more than 300 or so miles away.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
>MEX has apparently now joined SJD as a soon-to-be-added international destination. (Hmmmmm.)

Are there even any plans to construct (and staff) an appropriate CBP facility?

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
>The long-term list of destinations is now at about 26, although a complete list of these planned markets is not presented.

From CLD? Off that 4800' runway? Good luck with that.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
I'd put money on the table that CP will not have a revenue premium at CLD compared to carriers at SAN.

   The convenience for North County residents is counterbalanced by a far larger population base close to SAN, along with generally superior schedule choices at SAN. Are three daily CLD-OAK round-trips enough convenience when compared to a 45-minute drive to SAN for twelve daily SAN-OAK round-trips? Who would drive from South County unless the fare is a lot cheaper?


User currently offlinecoopdogyo From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
You realize CLD has a short 4,800ft runway right?

The E-170 needs 3800 feet to go 500nm and 5400 feet to reach max range.


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