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Ryanair Signs MOU With Comac To Develop The C919  
User currently offlinebralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 628 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10465 times:

Directly from Ryanair's website:

Ryanair and Comac (Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China) Sign C 919 MOU in Paris

Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline, today (21st June) in Paris signed a Memorandum of Understanding with COMAC to participate in discussions on the development of the COMAC C919 aircraft for Ryanair, which would be designed to carry up to 200 passengers and should be available from 2018 onwards.

Ryanair, the world’s largest international scheduled airline, will share its experience and expertise to assist COMAC to develop the new C919 commercial aircraft, with up to 200 seats, which would enable Ryanair to lower costs and continue to lower fares for its passengers across Europe.

Speaking in Paris, Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said;

“Ryanair is pleased to sign this MOU with COMAC, and to work closely with them to develop a 200 seat C919 aircraft. We are pleased that there is now a real alternative to Boeing and Airbus, and we are seriously interested in the development of a 200 seat variant of the C919 aircraft, and we look forward to its introduction into commercial service from 2018 onwards.

Ryanair will have a fleet of over 300 Boeing aircraft by 2013, and we remain in continuing discussions with both Boeing and now COMAC for a replacement aircraft order of at least 200 aircraft. Ryanair can become a two aircraft operator carrier, as long as the economies achieved by our current Boeing 737-800 fleet can be matched or lowered by a similar sized order from a different manufacturer. While today’s announcement won’t affect our long standing relationship with Boeing, we look forward to working closely with COMAC to promote more competition among aircraft manufacturers, which can only be good for promoting competition between airlines and lowering the cost of air travel for consumers all across Europe towards the end of the decade.

General Manager of COMAC, Mr Zhuanglong Jin, said;

“COMAC has appreciated the support from Ryanair and we look forward to strengthening the cooperation and communication with Ryanair as we strive to establish a close, long-term strategic partnership.

By working with important airlines like Ryanair we can ensure that we develop an aircraft that meets the changing needs of the airline industry and ensures that Ryanair and COMAC can be partners for years to come.”

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10460 times:

Another try to lower Boeing's prices?

User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10419 times:

That was my reaction. If Airbus won't play ball, look further afield.

User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10400 times:

Quoting bralo20 (Reply 1):
Another try to lower Boeing's prices?

His publicity tends to not involve the Chinese government and Memo's of understandings. I suspect he is seriously considering the C919, and I would venture to say that a subsidized program would give him a sales price that Boeing would have a hard time competing with. My question would be how much subsidy could the C919 program get from the Chinese governement before the WTO gets pulled in.


User currently offlinebralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 3):
His publicity tends to not involve the Chinese government and Memo's of understandings. I suspect he is seriously considering the C919, and I would venture to say that a subsidized program would give him a sales price that Boeing would have a hard time competing with. My question would be how much subsidy could the C919 program get from the Chinese governement before the WTO gets pulled in.

Could be... The news is now also confirmed on COMAC's site though only in Chinese (http://www.comac.cc/main/dt/201106/21/t20110621_437961.shtml). On paper the C919 doesn't look to bad, if they can get the quality against a decent price and good economics it could be a potential hit... Certainly if a "major" western airline like Ryanair orders a bunch of them...

But I'll guess we'll have to wait for that  


User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10167 times:

Well if Boeing won't give you the price you want and Airbus doesn't even let you through the door then you are going to have to look at more alternative options. Enter Comac!

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 3):
His publicity tends to not involve the Chinese government and Memo's of understandings. I suspect he is seriously considering the C919, and I would venture to say that a subsidized program would give him a sales price that Boeing would have a hard time competing with.

Ryanair seems to be very serious about this. China will do it's best to get this project of the ground and to get a major western airline to buy the Comac. So this could get interesting and actually materialize.

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 3):
My question would be how much subsidy could the C919 program get from the Chinese governement before the WTO gets pulled in.

Somehow I don't think China will pay that much attention to the WTO.


User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10056 times:

Could be a potential big WIN once again for FR or could be a total EFup. I'ts intriguing nonetheless, Atleast it would be something different to fly on and photograph...

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5259 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9956 times:

Interesting is that he talks about FR being open for two manufactures in the fleet. Their might be a A320NEO order around the corner...wish wish wish   I really hope they will switch Boeing for Airbus.

User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9772 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This could be a potential win for Ryanair, absolutely with discounts for being an early adopter in the West... But I tell you something, the Chinese Govt won't put up with the malarkey of O'Leary and his mouth.


146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9772 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
Somehow I don't think China will pay that much attention to the WTO.

Perhaps, but they have to at least give the perception that you care..., right?


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5913 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9456 times:

Biggest scheduled airline in the world?

How on earth did he come up with that statistic?


User currently offlineBA6590 From UK - England, joined Jul 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9438 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Biggest scheduled airline in the world?

How on earth did he come up with that statistic?

Wasn't it largest international scheduled airline?



"Never forget, the higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche -
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13428 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9172 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Delimit (Reply 2):
That was my reaction. If Airbus won't play ball, look further afield.

That was my first thought too. But FR/MOL does like to surprise...

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 3):
I suspect he is seriously considering the C919

I suspect it is a negotiating tactic that might become serious a la F9/B6 and Airbus. A C919 order has risks for all parties:

For FR, they might be told "Ok, go buy the C919"

For Boeing, they could lose a large customer

For COMEC, as FR is going to demand:
Fuel burn
Range w/payload
Turn time
Maintenance cost warantee
Cycles per day far higher than any other C919 customer I've seen...
Dispatch reliability
Durability
and riskiest of all, *resale value*

The last is going to be a big deal as FR is already cycling out older 738s for new 738s. FR will cycle out C919s within 5 to 7 years of the 1st delivery. What is COMEC willing to promise? Will COMEC be willing to lease to FR on 7 year terms?

Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
the Chinese Govt won't put up with the malarkey of O'Leary and his mouth.

If they do not deliver, MOL's mouth will!   

Seriously, if the C919 doesn't meet promise, MOL will spout off. That is the risk for COMEC. Nothing anyone says could shut up MOL, Al-Baker, or a few other 'airline personalities.' The Chinese government/COMEC had better realize they are taking a hold of the tail of a tiger that doesn't play by their rules.

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
So this could get interesting and actually materialize.

It could be interesting, as in 'May you live in interesting times.'  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMWHCVT From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 727 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9101 times:

Sorry if I have misunderstood this but a MOU to participate in discussions on the development of the aircraft, so FR are going to talk with COMAC about what they want from the plane...Wow, and did not QF participate on the development of the Boeing 777 and just how big is the 777 fleet at QF  

I like others have posted believe this is yet another attempt from dear old MOL to get lower prices...

Matt
MWHCVT



Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 13):
Sorry if I have misunderstood this but a MOU to participate in discussions on the development of the aircraft,

Since when does an airline need to sign a MOU to have "discussions about the development of an aircraft" with an airplane maker. Don't similar discussions go on regularly all the time? Suspect this is a PR ploy....


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 7):
I really hope they will switch Boeing for Airbus.

With airlines queueing for A320NEO and orders raining, Airbus will not give them any price that is better than Indigo or Air Asia get.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

I don't know how it is in other countries but in Germany, flying a so far unknown and Chinese aircraft type would irritate the customers and would further hurt the reputation of that airline in the public opinion.

No smart move, at least in Germany.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8072 times:

Quoting bralo20 (Thread starter):
Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline

BULL****!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):

Seriously, if the C919 doesn't meet promise, MOL will spout off. That is the risk for COMEC.

Bingo! COMEC just sold their soul to the devil.


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

I did double take this when seeing the thread.

Its not an order so lets not get carried away, but it is a sensational bit of PR for both Comac and FR and will cause some head turning in Toulouse and Seattle (or is it now North Charleston?)

However, and its a big however, despite all the MOL bravado and the at times dubious FR customer service approach, one thing that MOL and FR have always been able to hang their hat on is that they fly the best available aircraft for the job. I just can't see FR taking such a big gamble when push comes to shove...ie the next big order



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 16):
I don't know how it is in other countries but in Germany, flying a so far unknown and Chinese aircraft type would irritate the customers and would further hurt the reputation of that airline in the public opinion.

I rather doubt their customers are sensitive to anything but price, otherwise no one would fly them.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 19):
I rather doubt their customers are sensitive to anything but price, otherwise no one would fly them.

While price is the most important piece of the decision, 90% of the FR passengers fly FR because FR created a completely new market for its own.

I'm afraid people who wear clothes made in China (and poison themselves with the lot of uncontrolled chemicals in them) may not mind too much.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9657 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7605 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 16):
Germany, flying a so far unknown and Chinese aircraft type would irritate the customers and would further hurt the reputation of that airline in the public opinion.

unless a COMAC C919 crashes and BILD tabloid etches that name eternally into the minds of the folks flying FR most people could not give a damn about what they are flying. They see a C919 and think it's a Boeing.

I doubt that the chinese manufacturer will be able to supply an aircraft that meets the demands of any western European carrier even if they give them away for nothing, Spares supply and availability is another item that is hard to achieve for newcomers.

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
Somehow I don't think China will pay that much attention to the WTO.

right. WTO? WTF!



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

A very interesting development.
In some way it gives additional support for MS-21 development here in Russia.
As it shows that there is some space between A & B to play.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
unless a COMAC C919 crashes and BILD tabloid etches that name eternally into the minds of the folks flying FR most people could not give a damn about what they are flying. They see a C919 and think it's a Boeing.

No, I'm sure, if they order and fly with this aircraft, this will go through the media. Beginning with Chinese cars, technical products have and a foritori aircraft will have a very bad reputation. And for the first years the concept of Chinese aircraft will scare the majority of the German customers.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9657 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7034 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 23):
No, I'm sure, if they order and fly with this aircraft, this will go through the media. Beginning with Chinese cars,

Well, there was that Chinese "luxury" car which German automobile club ADAC tested and came to the result that when you have a collision with a dog the car loses. You might be right. But the average FR passenger really goes for that cheap ticket and FR won't tell him if it's a Boeing or something Chinese and as long as the seats are not made of bamboo they wouldn't know when they're inside.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
25 parapente : This man is the King of PR no doubt about it.This time he suppases even his own high standards. having said this I am sure he can advise them well on
26 Burkhard : Not quite, and I do not see FR operating C919 from German or UK airports before 2023 or so. China's car industry is a shocking example... For the Chi
27 PanHAM : I doubt that. At least phonetivcally Ryanair is already present in the FE (Lionar), besides that, most world markets have their LCCs and little room
28 vhqpa : Would Boeing even mind if O'Leary shopped elsewhere? Ever since the first order where he "raped Boeing" (his words not mine) was completed he always s
29 tolmachevo : Most of the world at this stage... Just because it is made in China does not mean it is badly made, that mentality is from the last century. Made in
30 MoltenRock : If Boeing has learned anything it well should! Back in 1986 when NWA stunned many with their order, and subsequent first delivery of 100 Airbus A320s
31 AirbusA6 : It's a massive risk for FR, a manufacturer with no track record, in a sector where margins are wafer thin, and high aircraft utilisation is key. Howev
32 JoeCanuck : The import of this announcement depends on how quickly MOL needs to replace aircraft. First delivery of the C919 isn't until 2016 with the first year
33 Delimit : As obnoxious as he is, he does buy a lot of planes. He's very good at generating press. You get what you pay for. If you skimp on materials and super
34 Post contains links noelg : Ryanair announced in February they were looking at the C919: http://www.independent.ie/business/i...on-cheap-chinese-jets-2527367.html Makes sense for
35 RoseFlyer : I still wonder if they will even be able to get the C919 certified by EASA in a timely manner. The ARJ21 is late and has had as many problems as the 7
36 worldliner : If Ryanair is "sharing its experience and expertise to assist COMAC to develop the new C919 commercial aircraft", The plane will probably be half stan
37 kl911 : Why the FR bashing again and again? I like their product and their destinations, most of them I have never been to. And let them be the cheapest pleas
38 YVRLTN : I fail to see why so many think it is impossible for China to build a decent quality airliner. Sure, we are the most familiar with the crap in Walmart
39 carpethead : Buying shoes or clothing, then stepping up to cars then stepping up to airplanes are a totally different matter. There are basically still zero Chines
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