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Will UA Ever Operate 748I?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3624 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 9868 times:

I was wondering today, UA has been a 747 operator since the giant Boeing jetliner enter service. Now that UA plan to replace it 744 fleet with A350 900 XWBs by 2018, I wonder, will UA ever operate 748Is or is UA's era with the 747 over?
I understand why UA was down sizing their a/c's before their merger with CO, but I would think that the extra business CO gave them, would open doors for a VLA order. So what are the chances we will see a 748I in UA livery?

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineskyrat From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 9708 times:

You have to ask UA that question. No matter what anyone on here says, they really don't know for sure. You're going to get responses saying they will and others saying they won't. Just have to wait and see.


flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 9683 times:

Quoting skyrat (Reply 1):
You have to ask UA that question. No matter what anyone on here says, they really don't know for sure. You're going to get responses saying they will and others saying they won't. Just have to wait and see.

Just what do you think these forums are here for? Aside from dissemination of official facts, lots of people speculate. It's part of what forums are for. If we waited for official word on everything, airliners.net wouldn't get half the traffic it did.

With that said, it seems like UACO is planning on a smaller fleet, and the A350-900 seems to be as big as they want to get.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 287 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 9583 times:

Based on CO's history, they will order 777-300ER before the 747-8I. The old CO /new UA team has/will focus on fuel effeciency in their fleet. They will probably increase market size in small steps as Co has in the past and then once then reach the largest fleet type add additional service with the smaller type to provide frequency vs quantity.
It would be nice to see the 747-8I flying for them but the 77W will do the job nicely.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 9376 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
Quoting skyrat (Reply 1):
You have to ask UA that question. No matter what anyone on here says, they really don't know for sure. You're going to get responses saying they will and others saying they won't. Just have to wait and see.

Just what do you think these forums are here for? Aside from dissemination of official facts, lots of people speculate.

Which is one thing that makes many if not most of the posts here devoid of value.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
If we waited for official word on everything, airliners.net wouldn't get half the traffic it did.

But the information available would be more than twice as valuable.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
With that said, it seems like UACO is planning on a smaller fleet, and the A350-900 seems to be as big as they want to get.

While my suspicions favor your viewpoint...

Quoting skyrat (Reply 1):
You have to ask UA that question. No matter what anyone on here says, they really don't know for sure.

...skyrat is on the money.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 9172 times:
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If I was Boeing, I'd offer the 747-8i to UA at cost to keep the image of UA flying the the famous bird over the A350. But that's why I'm not the CEO of Boeing!


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineIPFreely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 9120 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):
the image of UA flying the the famous bird

Back in the day, the image of UA was worth something. Not so much anymore.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 8963 times:
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Quoting IPFreely (Reply 6):

Not to me! We let PanAm go, I will give my business to UA and pray this merger will produce a great and lasting airline.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 8741 times:

I doubt that UA will buy the 747-8I. A more likely choice--especially given that UA has ordered the A350-900--is to buy the A350-1000 to completely replace the 747-400 fleet, just like SQ is putting the 777-300ER on many long routes formerly served by the 747-400.

User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 8577 times:

[quote=IPFreely,reply=6]Back in the day, the image of UA was worth something. Not so much anymore.[/quot


It is pretty sad if you ask me. Back in the day, a 747 in UA livery was a thing of pride and beauty, I a lot of cases, it is still a worth something to me.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 8512 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 8):
I doubt that UA will buy the 747-8I. A more likely choice--especially given that UA has ordered the A350-900--is to buy the A350-1000 to completely replace the 747-400 fleet, just like SQ is putting the 777-300ER on many long routes formerly served by the 747-400.

SQ has the A380 however

After the merger UA is now a bigger airline with more people. So I suppose they will eventually get the A380 and/or the B747-8 especially when SQ, BA, LH, AF, VS etc have the A380 in service.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 8420 times:

Exactly.. I think UA's strategy of replacing the 747s with A350s and 787s was a sound one before the merger with CO. Now, as United Airline said, they are a far bigger airline, with a lot more people, and a lot more traffic. Once the dust settles after the merger, I think we will see UA operating either the A380 or the 747-8i. I think the same will also apply for DL as well. Personally, IMHO, I think both will eventually order the 747-8i.

But as skyrat says, this is purely speculation, and I (likely as well as everyone who'll participate in this thread) simply don't know for sure, and can't say anything with much certainty.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4527 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 11):

Reply 11, posted Sat Jun 25 2011 00:12:26 your local time (18 minutes 36 secs ago) and read 51 times:

Exactly.. I think UA's strategy of replacing the 747s with A350s and 787s was a sound one before the merger with CO. Now, as United Airline said, they are a far bigger airline, with a lot more people, and a lot more traffic. Once the dust settles after the merger, I think we will see UA operating either the A380 or the 747-8i. I think the same will also apply for DL as well. Personally, IMHO, I think both will eventually order the 747-8i.

I would like to agree with you but I doubt it.


Continental Management (who now run UAL) think small is better, they lack the vision required to see the value of a true VLA. I expect there will be fewer widebodies overall in the merged Airline and I also expect them to start shrinking the combined operation.



Denver will be first to go i'm afraid.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
Continental Management (who now run UAL) think small is better, they lack the vision required to see the value of a true VLA. I expect there will be fewer widebodies overall in the merged Airline and I also expect them to start shrinking the combined operation.

The CEO is from CO but overall UA owns more shares and I think UA has more board members on the board.

It is now a bigger airline so it's a different story.

As for widebodies I don't think they are getting rid of any

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
Denver will be first to go i'm afraid.

Don't think DEN will go


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 8040 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 9):
It is pretty sad if you ask me. Back in the day, a 747 in UA livery was a thing of pride and beauty, I a lot of cases, it is still a worth something to me.

That's the thing...image of an airline is important to enthusiasts and frequent fliers who actually care about "their" airline, but that doesn't really represent a big portion of those who fly (certainly it is a large portion, but doesn't account for the majority of the flying public). To many travelers, paint schemes, aircraft types, company reputations (other than stuff that has been publicized greatly in the news), etc. doesn't mean anything because they don't care. Unfortunately, jet travel has lost the prestige and mystique it once held in society...particularly post 9/11 since security and regulations are seen to most as being a hassle, making flying a very stressful endeavor for the infrequent flier.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a 748i flying around in UA colors with the globe tail and keep the 747 legacy in UA's fleet continuing for another 30 years...but, it won't mean much to most people, and UACO can't afford to buy an aircraft solely based on their history -- which is why I could see them more realistically choosing the 77W. What I'm hoping is that the 748i performance and abilities are actually proven to UA (and other carriers, for that matter) and that post-merger there will be an effective and profitable way to deploy them. Personally, I HIGHLY doubt they'd get an A380 -- it's far too large -- not to mention the fact that we're debating if the 748i will be too large for them. I have a hard time seeing any US carrier buying an A380 (this isn't a debate and I'm sure plenty of people have something to counter that with...it's my personal opinion, nothing more).


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

Is Airbus pushing the A380 to UA still?

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 7):
Not to me! We let PanAm go

Who let PanAm go?


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 7685 times:
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Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):

Society. Bad business people. I don't think people cared until the PamAm sign was taken off the top of the PanAm building. Is part of the success of "Catch me if you can" be the nostalgic hey day of Pan American? I believe many Americans are sad to see PanAm gone. I know many, many Brazilians took the loss of VARIG as a national loss. Both airlines probably needed to go under when they did- but I think society cares. I don't think they know the difference between a 767 or an A330. But I do think people are more emotionally attached to legacy carriers than we think. (my opinion) I see you're from the UK, I know so many Brits complain profusely about British Airways- but remember the rage of the general pop of the British over the "World Tails" livery?!?

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 14):

I know you're right. United will buy and fly what makes sense. What makes money. So I'm in the camp of "nobody knows" I bet United has all options on the table however! Things change. 5 years ago how many of us would have predicted that United and Continental would merge and become one? 5+ years ago most people had bets on United being liquidated. Before the end of the year it will be the worlds largest airline with 10 hubs!

5 years from now United may need a 747-8 going to Asia 3 times a day from EWR or two A380's. I remember the Sonny and Cher show--If Cher can go on and win an Oscar for best actress then United could order a bunch of 748's! (my opinion)



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineKngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 404 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 7676 times:
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I think they will. It might not be for awhile though. IIRC they are planning on refurbishing the 744 cabins so they don't need a replacement for awhile. I don't buy the notion that the A359 is going to replace the 744s, even though that is what UA is saying. (or was post-merger)

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 7534 times:

In my opinion, UA will likely buy the A350-100 or whatever replaces the 777-300ER to finally put the 747-400 "out to pasture." UA's emphasis is on more frequency of service, and since the A350-1000 or the 777-300ER successor will easily meet the Britsh Quota Count 2 standard for aircraft noise, it will allow for near-unlimited operations in and out of LHR and LGW on flghts from the USA.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 6954 times:

UA/CO's current widebody fleet;

9 767-200
35 767-300
16 767-400
24 747-400
19 777-200
55 777-200ER

Here's an option they could go with for their future Widebody fleet.

16 767-400
36 787-8
40 787-9
25 A350-900
20 777-300ER
20 747-8I



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5468 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 6668 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
Here's an option they could go with for their future Widebody fleet.

16 767-400
36 787-8
40 787-9
25 A350-900
20 777-300ER
20 747-8I

Even after the merger, I just don't see where they're going to use so many huge jets.

The very biggest transpac routes need about 12-15 large aircraft. I think they will eventually have to order something larger than the A350-900 to cover those routes efficiently, especially since additional frequency is of only limited value because of the nature of transpac timing.

But I think A350-900 will suit them fine everywhere else, including the smaller TPAC routes and all of TATL and South America. Maybe they could use a few A350-1000 to go along with those A350-900, but there's no reason they need to add another separate type (77W) for most of their market.

The best VLA choice for them, IMO, is the A380. They'll be able to fill them on LAX-SYD and the biggest NRT routes.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 6580 times:
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I'd like to see UA with the 747-i as well but everything we've heard from UA tells us that won't happen. I think the 773ER would make an even better choice but the production slots are full for a LONG time.

This leaves UA going smaller with more frequency and more fleet flexibility. Their 744's are suitable only for certain routes given the cost to fly those big birds. It will mean they'll most likely stick to the TransPac routes until the 777's conversions are complete. Once those are done, UA might put the 744 on some of the big TATL routes depending on market conditions.

As for new aircraft orders, don't expect any public news on additional orders or changes until the merger is complete and they've had 12 months or so to get the 767 winglet program underway, finish retrofitting their 777 fleet (PMUA), take in some 787's and phase out some 762's.

The volatile fuel market only makes them more cautious about big orders.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 6419 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
Here's an option they could go with for their future Widebody fleet.

16 767-400
36 787-8
40 787-9
25 A350-900
20 777-300ER
20 747-8I

Interesting option. However I doubt they would order any 777-300ER with the A350s in their fleet already and the -1000 gaining ground on the 777. But that is a discussion on its own.

I personally don't like theses "ever-never" assumptions, because the future is a terribly unreliable thing. I do hope and believe however that the 747-8I will sooner or later join the nUA fleet. That's because I just don't see them jumping from an A350 (-1000?) to an A380 in a single step. That's quite the capacity increase and I believe they need the 748i as a "buffer" in between. And yes, I strongly believe that no world player can go without the A380 in the distant future, and I still have hopes that nUA will be a world player again.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months ago) and read 6198 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
Continental Management (who now run UAL) think small is better, they lack the vision required to see the value of a true VLA. I expect there will be fewer widebodies overall in the merged Airline and I also expect them to start shrinking the combined operation.



Denver will be first to go i'm afraid.

I agree with what has been said by Max Q, and feel that UAL will shrink their service. I doubt if we will ever see any 748i's in service with an American carrier. The U.S. airline industry is "right sizing" their fleets and rationalizing their thinking on where there will be a need for such a large aircraft. The present thinking seems to be along the lines of frequency and tailoring their serrvices to what is demanded by the American public, and that is convenience at a reasonable price. With fewer people traveling today in America and even fewer people wanting to travel to the U.S. because of perceived difficulties going through their airports i.e. security, the need for sucha a large aircraft seems to be inconsequential and such a proliferation of new aircraft the size of the A350/B777/B787 seem to be the way of the next 10 years as the 744's of the two american will be retired. All spculation on my part but a educated guess non the less.

To commment on the DEN thing I believe that DEN will still be a significant hub for the new UA. It has the expansion posibilities that they don't have in ORD. I personaly like going to Denver because it is a beeautiful new airport with gorgeous scenary around it.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
25 par13del : I read this but I question the logic, what more traffic? CO and UA were handling their traffic with their own a/c before the merger, so now we have a
26 splitterz : It all has to do with rationalizing routes. I bet some of those routes flown by either carrier could constitute a larger AC, strictly talking about i
27 YULWinterSkies : In fact, they will, across the Atlantic, on LH metal through the joint-venture. Same already goes for the A380. I cannot see why not. Some of this may
28 KC135TopBoom : I doubt one A-359 can replace one B-744, I think it would take two A-359s (the A-359 only seats 314in 3 classes). The bigger B-77W and A-3510 would b
29 Grid : In other words, any thread that does not link to an original source is devoid of value? Is that what you are getting at? Most forums operate in this
30 VC10er : How long is the wait for a 777-300? How many are backlogged and how many does Boeing pump out a month? Do they use a dedicated 777-300 line? Also, if
31 flylku : I've said here before that no US carrier would fly anything larger that the 777-200 once the 747's were retired. But of course I was wrong (thanks Ame
32 Grid : I would love to know how many people are devoted to just organizing the order. I suppose some airlines order the plane and know when delivery is but
33 goblin211 : I like the 744s they have now. They should replace them with the newer version instead of going with airbus. At the end of the day though, if the 359
34 bmacleod : Must the third or fourth discussion regarding this topic and the answer is maybe but unlikely given that UA order for A350s are intended to replace th
35 United Airline : I think both the A380 and the B 747-8 stand good chances. A lot of their routes can sustain both
36 Antoniemey : The difference in shares wasn't huge to begin with and by now enough trading has probably happened that it doesn't matter anyway. The breakdown of sh
37 Thrust : It seems to me like twin-engined jets are the way the U.S. has been going for years, and that shows no signs of slowing up. I am doubting we will ever
38 Post contains images captainstefan : His opinion usually seems to go against the common notion I can see a use for the 748i in the UA fleet for the Asian market and for peak season to Au
39 Post contains images Navigator : I think 748i at United is a possibility, yes!! I also think Airbus will try to sell the A380 to United when the time comes... Lets wait and see
40 worldliner : They have to replace the 744's, and depending on who gets there way will depend on the orders. If CO get eir way well see more 787's, 777's and. a350'
41 par13del : A lot of international carriers with one massive hub have been very successful, as I said, UA would need to create the same situation or purhase a ve
42 United Airline : Yes mainly for Asian and Australian routes. And certain European routes
43 gigneil : I think they'll order 71 firm plus 19 options. NS
44 KC135TopBoom : Yes, you are right, but the A-359 is also less capable in pax count and cargo payload than the B-744. Well, there is still the rumor US is looking fo
45 VC10er : Let's say ex CO executives are in the pilot seat moving forward. If I take what I read here on A.net as fact.. CO likes one aircraft supplier: Boeing.
46 gigneil : I have no idea why people on this site continue to say that the A350-900 will be replacing the 747s. Its obviously not even remotely the case. Its lik
47 328JET : That is not very likely, to be honest. It would mean 5 different pilot ratings with B764/788 overlapping and 789/359 a bit overlapping in capacity. T
48 KFitz : Given that the majority of revenues come from premium travelers and elites, then yes, these people are in fact swayed by equipment. Look at the mutin
49 Post contains images ual777uk : Smisek is running a completely different ball game to the one he had before. Those A350 will be in UA colours for sure. I also think that we may see
50 Post contains images frigatebird : I'm sure UA will keep their Airbus order. The A350 is the perfect aircraft for long haul. Now that it has merged with CO, I think it is very likely t
51 Joost : The 777-300, A350-900 and A350-1000 all have greater containerized cargo capabilities than the 747-400. The 747-400 has more floor space of course, s
52 AADC10 : I think that all of the 747s will be gone within five to seven years, even if enough A350s are delivered to replace them. As is often mentioned, with
53 Post contains links seabosdca : People here are saying it because UA said it. Granted, it was pre-merger, but they were treating the 359 as their 744 replacement and the 788 as thei
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