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Is TAM Done Ordering?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2968 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 5141 times:
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I didn't see any ac orders from TAM in Paris, I believe they inked an engine deal, but are they feeling their current fleet plus what's on order fulfills their growth plans?

Also, there was so much discussion on new interiors- are they still considering this- they have a large number of 777-300's on the way?

While on Brazil, I've seen nothing for Embraer. Were they represented?


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46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8465 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

I suspect any future orders will be done to suit the LATAM entity rather then just TAM or LAN. So future orders are probably on hold until the finer details of the merger are sorted.

User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 1):
So future orders are probably on hold until the finer details of the merger are sorted.

Wait a second, who's merging? I must've missed this.



From the airport with love
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25848 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 2):
Quoting bill142 (Reply 1):
So future orders are probably on hold until the finer details of the merger are sorted.

Wait a second, who's merging? I must've missed this.

LAN and TAM announced merger plans in August 2010. It's awating approval of the relevant governments and antitrust authorities.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LNAB280.htm
http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2011/06/13/lan-tam-merger-delayed/


User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 1):
So future orders are probably on hold until the finer details of the merger are sorted.

Really? Why is LAN then ordering 20 A320Neos and some 763ERs? Both airlines will still operate separately, from what I understand. It will be more like the AF-KL merger rather like the UA-CO.

Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 1):
So future orders are probably on hold until the finer details of the merger are sorted.

Really? "Today's order, valued at approximately $568 million at current list prices, brings the total number of 777s TAM has on order to 12."
http://bit.ly/hSFrom


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 4):
Both airlines will still operate separately, from what I understand. It will be more like the AF-KL merger rather like the UA-CO.

What? I thought it was a complete merger like DL-NW and UA-CO where both airlines are under one operating certificate, same livery, and same service? Were those the intentions from the beginning?


User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

It's not even decided whether they will be member of only one alliance...

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 7):
It's not even decided whether they will be member of only one alliance...
Quote:
LAN and TAM will not touch the subject until their deal is approved and completed, now pushed back to 1Q2012. But once that happens, a decision to go with one alliance could happen quickly. A speedy choice would make it easier from a process standpoint as LAN and TAM begin the task of bringing together their various systems...By securing Avianca-TACA and Copa, Star has essentially hedged its bet if TAM were to move to oneworld. But by accepting Avianca-TACA and Copa, Star may reduce its chance to get LATAM - LAN may not like the idea of being in the same alliance as its two largest regional rivals. If LAN ends up in Star, the overlaps which already are starting to emerge with Avianca-TACA and Copa coming into the alliance also get far more serious. For example, in Colombia, all three major carriers – Avianca, Copa Colombia and Aires, which is expected to be rebranded LAN Colombia later this year – will be in one alliance, creating an unprecedented situation.
http://bit.ly/iAvZKc


User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8573 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
What? I thought it was a complete merger like DL-NW and UA-CO where both airlines are under one operating certificate, same livery, and same service? Were those the intentions from the beginning?

They are airlines from different sovereign countries, unlike DL-NW and UA-CO. I don't think that would be even possible.


User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
They are airlines from different sovereign countries, unlike DL-NW and UA-CO. I don't think that would be even possible.

They could always implement a LA/LP/XL/4M type union, where for all intents and purposes the four act like a single airline. Won't be happening with JJ though.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2968 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4040 times:
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So TAM bought nothing in Paris, right? (LAN didn't either) they both have ac on order and are expecting delivery, when I don't know)

It seems that a split alliance (TAM WITH STAR) & (LAN WITH ONE WORLD) has been ruled out? Yes? No?

"The first line answers my question."

But begs another. How could Star Alliance have a decent amount of connectivity and code sharing with Avianca, Copa and Taca inside "Brazil"?

I, like many others need TAM. I live in NYC. Given I won't jump ship from UA or Star; What about non-stops JFK/GIG, and then very good connections to 3 or 4 cities I need inside Brazil? I also use TAM to and from Europe. Basically, when VARIG went away, I flew LH, TP, LX. If I was in London- I'd fly to Lisbon and then to Brazil. NOW, when I fly TAM from London it's a joy. And with the unique ability to upgrade within Star Alliance*I can upgrade to TAM First on that beautiful 777-300 to GRU or the same F product to GIG. Certainly 13 hours on LH, LX and even BF on TP is NOT torture. They are fine airlines. Swiss in C is amazing.

Is Star talking to GOL? or are they in talks already with another alliance.

*do the other Alliances have the same Star Alliance upgrade program? It was originally unique to Star.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 11):
(LAN didn't either)

At Paris, LAN ordered 20 A320neos; LAN now has over 100 Airbus family a/c on order! Last February, LAN placed and order for more B-767-316ERs, last May LAN placed an order for more B-767-316ERs. LAN has over 150 a/c on order!


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2968 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3909 times:
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Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):

Wow! I have never flown LAN. I am dying for a ride on one of their new 767's.

Do they have any other Airbus' on order other than A320 types? Anything bigger than 767's?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
Do they have any other Airbus' on order other than A320 types? Anything bigger than 767's?

Only A319s, A320s and A321s. LAN has 32 firm orders for the B787 Dreamliners, (with options). Next year, LAN will be one of the first airlines in the world to fly the Dreamliner.


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3481 times:

You Can't forget the A343's!

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3444 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 15):
You Can't forget the A343's!

But those aren't on order and will eventually be replaced by a/c that are currently on order...


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3434 times:

Oh sorry I thought he meant the aircraft currently in the fleet.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8971 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 3248 times:

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 4):
Really? Why is LAN then ordering 20 A320Neos and some 763ERs? Both airlines will still operate separately, from what I understand. It will be more like the AF-KL merger rather like the UA-CO.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
Really? "Today's order, valued at approximately $568 million at current list prices, brings the total number of 777s TAM has on order to 12."
http://bit.ly/hSFrom

To be fair, those are relatively small orders, TAM already ordered the A320NEO anyway and the type is already operated by both airlines. Neither can just stop everything and wait for something that may not even happen (though I think it will).

I'd expect some major decisions to be put on hold until the merger is dis/approved, but otherwise it's business as usual.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
it's business as usual.

Great point! It's business as usual over at both carriers; besides both carriers have stated that they do not plan on changing pending orders should the combination be approved by the various regulators.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25848 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 11):
How could Star Alliance have a decent amount of connectivity and code sharing with Avianca, Copa and Taca inside "Brazil"?

Brazilian carrier OceanAir now operates as Avianca Brasil and serves over 20 destinations in Brazil from their hub at GRU.


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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2863 times:
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They can order more widebodies, but they need them now, not in 2014 or later, and they have a big problem with development of new markets.
TAM will begin MEX late October but it is just their 9th long haul market, too few for an airline with almost 30 widebodies.



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User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):

They can order more widebodies, but they need them now, not in 2014 or later, and they have a big problem with development of new markets.
TAM will begin MEX late October but it is just their 9th long haul market, too few for an airline with almost 30 widebodies.

Sorry, but somehow I can't follow your logic. You say they not enough long haul destinations for the fleet they have right now? I thought, and you state the same in your first sentence, that TAM needs more widebodies.

Unless of course you think that JJ should extend it's network. I hope TAM will finally offer some connections to Europe from any north-east airport.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 22):
Unless of course you think that JJ should extend it's network. I hope TAM will finally offer some connections to Europe from any north-east airport.

Of course TAM should expand its network. TAM has lost market-share to AF/KL, AZ, LH/LX, etc. Regardless, TAM plans on adding new destinations from both GRU and GIG, not only to Europe, but also to Africa...


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

Didn't TAM order their A320NEOs beginning of the year?

25 Post contains links SCL767 : TAM becomes third carrier to commit to A320neo with MOU for 22: TAM becomes third carrier to commit to A320neo with MOU for 22
26 Burkhard : So the question is: Why didn't they finalize the MoU - but the slots are secured and the paper work has time.
27 SCL767 : I cannot answer that question; I can only answer questions concerning another carrier's fleet plans.
28 LipeGIG : I was just trying to say that TAM, despite a reasonable fleet for long haul, covers few markets and have difficulty to find additional markets. Lets
29 EddieDude : You raise a very interesting point Lipe. I think we must remember that JJ only served MIA, CDG, EZE (and maybe JFK???) as international destinations w
30 SCL767 : Both FCO and JNB have been mentioned several times by certain individuals...It will be great to see TAM at FCO!
31 VC10er : Do they have 2 classes or just one? Are they operating Fokker100's? from TAM? 20 destinations sounds ok, but what are the frequencies? Also, how is A
32 LipeGIG : They do not make sense for TAM. They looked into JNB in 2009/2010 and decided not to venture. They looked into FCO in 2011 and decided also not to en
33 SCL767 : However, with feed from SCL, AEP/EZE, along with domestic destinations in Brazil, surely two carriers could operate on the same route. A lot of pax f
34 EddieDude : I agree with you Lipe, they seem to be quite conservative. However, maybe YYZ would not be out of the question. I think there should be a decent amou
35 SCL767 : MH dropped the JNB stop on the route. It currently operates as KUL-CPT-EZE 2x weekly, (B744). IMO, LA/JJ can compete directly with SAA given the size
36 LipeGIG : In regards to YYZ i see the traffic from Canada being a feed of several US carriers, specially now with flights to GIG, CNF, BSB, MAO, SSA/REC. Geogr
37 SCL767 : Yet, this year JJ added frequencies into JFK and MIA, plus GIG-LHR will soon operate daily. None of those cities are * hubs. Last year, AA operated M
38 EddieDude : You are absolutely right. Great for LA!
39 jfk777 : BA will probably never fly to SCL again as long as LAN is a OW member. LA cna feed BA at Buenos Aires, MAD and GRU. IF LATAM does come to being I wou
40 SCL767 : LA only code-shares with BA on SCL-GRU-SCL route daily; BA does not code-share with LA at any other cities in South America. BA only code-shares with
41 jfk777 : BA will probably never fly to SCL again as long as LAN is a OW member. LA cna feed BA at Buenos Aires, MAD and GRU. IF LATAM does come to being I wou
42 SCL767 : However, since LA and JJ code-share on the SCL-GRU-SCL route; LA/JJ pax can also fly to LHR via GRU daily on TAM.
43 VC10er : I have never flown LAN (although their reputation is very good) how does LAN and TAM compare from a hard product standpoint? Does LAN have F? is there
44 Post contains links SCL767 : LAN eliminated F a while back and introduced the Premium Business Class cabin and a new Economy Class cabin on its entire fleet of B-767-316ERs and f
45 VC10er : Thanks. Looks like a nice business class seat. Certainly better "looking" than TAM. But personally the "one row" of a real F seat (while unattractive
46 jfk777 : There is a First Class market in Sao Paulo, TAM has only 4 First seats on their planes so its very limited. You are talking about less then 100 passe
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