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B787 Quick Production Question  
User currently offlineColAvionLover From Panama, joined Dec 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5740 times:
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Hi A.netters;

I was wondering this stuff from the B787 production since the beginning of the year. My question is, why is Boeing making B787s one after another and painting (or letting us know) to its carrier scheme? I mean, that's not a problem but the real question is, why such thing isn't made by Airbus on their A380s. Making A380s and saying like, "this ones goes to Asiana, the one coming next week goes to British Airways, the next one after that will be another for Emirates" instead of making them like in a "linear way", I mean, like saying "Let me give SIA 5, then I'll start giving Qantas 5 too and 5 more to SIA and like that.

I'm not sure if you understand my point, but that's the basic question: "Why isn't Airbus Producing A380s like Boeing is making B787s?" and "What is making Boeing to produce B787s one after one for different airlines instead of making X or Y quantity to a single airline and then to another one?"

Regards,

JDM's

(PD: English is not my native language so I'm still learning how to make myself understood).


JDM's
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1531 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5674 times:

If I understand what you're asking correctly...

Boeing is producing 787s the way they are so that they can have a good batch ready to deliver very quickly after certification is achieved . Toward that end, they need to be painted and ready to fly (aside from some of them not having engines mounted yet) so that they can be delivered as quickly as the airlines they're going to are able and willing to accept them

This was always the plan to a certain extent, but the delays in the program have made it even more necessary to get the 787 in wide service quickly after certification.

As far as how Airbus is doing the A380, that is now a relatively mature program in terms of production rate. I don't think it's yet to the target rate, but it's now to the point where they're being accepted as fast as they can be built.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5637 times:

With the 787-8 as it gets into production will have little variation between planes for different airlines. I believe even the owner supplied seats are limited to a choice of something like 3 types. This has streamlined (when it finally gets running) the assembly line as nearly every plane is alike except for the paint.

The 380 allowed wide variations in entertainment systems, seating, showers, etc. etc. Thus it would make more sense to produce say 5 for EK together as the wiring harnesses etc would be the same..


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4361 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5597 times:

When airlines get their first planes, they want to have a certain number so that operation makes sense. LH as example now got 8 A380 in a bit more than half a year, from now on they take and get 2 per year. So it is typical that at a given point, there are several aircraft for one airline in a short sequence, and the older the line gets the more colorful is the output.

User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 841 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5495 times:

I never noticed that before.

I'd imagine that since the 787 production line has, in the grand scale of things, just started up they want to get their (launch?) customers some frames...

I forget specifically which airlines have ordered the 787, but I'll use BA, QF, and PS as examples. Say that all those airlines ordered 10 frames each (30 total). BA, QF, and PS would, hypothetically, want these frames ASAP. And by splitting production in the line's infancy (i.e. 1 to BA, 1 to QF, 1 to PS, and then 4 to BA, 5 to QF, etc...) would allow each carrier to begin utilising the 787 sooner than if one airline received all frames, and then another.

[Edited 2011-06-27 00:11:25]

[Edited 2011-06-27 00:11:52]

[Edited 2011-06-27 00:12:09]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2011 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5396 times:

I think that Airbus and Boeing are assigning airplanes line number (the sequence from which the airplane is assembled in the factory) the same way. Airlines rarely gets airplanes in sequence because they like to spread the delivery dates as much as possible to avoid cash flow issues. This is specially true for the more expensive airframes.

For the smaller frames, you may get 2 or 3 in a row to a customer, but for the most part, customer do not typically get sequential air frame. With launch customers like UAL for the 777 and ANA for the 787, you do get initial blocks.

Boeing have learned the hard way not to commit too many planes to any single customer at any point in the production line. This is because if any customer cancel and order it would be more difficult to re-adjust the line sequencing.

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 851 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 2):
With the 787-8 as it gets into production will have little variation between planes for different airlines. I believe even the owner supplied seats are limited to a choice of something like 3 types.

That's not the case for the internal fitout. Boeing has an off-site building - the Dreamliner Gallery - where airlines can configure their interiors. The range available is broad and it's surprising just how much can be customised. There are even 7 different textures for the side wall panels.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 6):
That's not the case for the internal fitout. Boeing has an off-site building - the Dreamliner Gallery - where airlines can configure their interiors. The range available is broad and it's surprising just how much can be customised. There are even 7 different textures for the side wall panels.


Why is that different from any other airliner! The customers had their choice of side wall and class dividers colors, the carpet colors, the seat makes and colors, even if the pilots seats had sheep skin covers or not back way back 40 years ago when the L-1011 was in production.

The only difference I could see is that on the L-1011 the interiors were completed before the aircraft left the final assembly building.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
Why is that different from any other airliner! The customers had their choice of side wall and class dividers colors, the carpet colors, the seat makes and colors, even if the pilots seats had sheep skin covers or not back way back 40 years ago when the L-1011 was in production.

The 787 has far less BFE. Customers used to be able to choose any seat, any carpet, any galley, etc. and, as long as it was certified, the OEM would stick it in there. The 787 restricts customers to a segment of pre-approved options. It's a wide range, but you can't just have whatever you want.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
The only difference I could see is that on the L-1011 the interiors were completed before the aircraft left the final assembly building.

Same with the 787.

Tom.


User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 851 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
Why is that different from any other airliner!

Never said it was different, just replying to the poster who said that the choice was far more limited that it is. When I visited I was surprised at just how detailed some of the options were, and the sidewall texture was an example of that.


User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 8):
The 787 has far less BFE. Customers used to be able to choose any seat, any carpet, any galley, etc. and, as long as it was certified, the OEM would stick it in there. The 787 restricts customers to a segment of pre-approved options. It's a wide range, but you can't just have whatever you want


   And that is why the 787 is branded as a -8 instead of a -800. It was to reflect that they have much more in common between operators



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2972 times:
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I went to Everette about 3 days ago and went into the production line of the 787. There were four being produced, and they were all ANA. So it really depends. The aircraft that was almost done (first one in line) had a sign that said, "13th 787 for ANA. So it seems to me ANA will be getting a lot of them in a really short time.


avi8
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24084 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
When airlines get their first planes, they want to have a certain number so that operation makes sense.

Pan Am's first 4 747s were delivered before the inaugural 747 flight, and their 5th was delivered on the scheduled date of the inaugural, January 21, 1970. It's lucky they had more than one as the aircraft planned for the inaugural had to return to the gate due to the chronic P&W JT9D problems on early 747s. Another aircraft was substituted and resulted in a long delay of several hours. It finally left well after midnight on January 22, 1970. (The aircraft that actually operated the inaugural, N736PA, was the aircraft destroyed in the Tenerife collision with the KLM 747 in 1977.)


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

Boeing and Airbus assign them all pretty much the same way, but you have to keep in mind that people have been moving their deliveries up and back based on the relative problems with the programs.

NS


User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Whatever works in this case. Both A and B have different time tables for giving a/c their planes and different problems along the way. Businesses always do what they feel is most efficient to the company.


From the airport with love
User currently offlineColAvionLover From Panama, joined Dec 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1892 times:
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Thanks to all for your replies.

The question came to my mind while looking at photos of the B787 flight line at KPAE Blog. You can visit it and see what I mean. There are a lot of B787s everywhere in KPAE.

Thanks Again, Regards

JDM's

Edit: In fact the first thing you see at the KPAE Blog (The header image) is a lot of B787s one after another in a taxiway.

[Edited 2011-06-27 19:51:14]


JDM's
User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1415 times:

Quoting ColAvionLover (Reply 15):

Edit: In fact the first thing you see at the KPAE Blog (The header image) is a lot of B787s one after another in a taxiway.

I hope that Boeing will get as many of those delivered prior to 2011. It will be interesting to see how many they will be able to pull off. Boeing stated at the beginning of the year that they will deliver 20-40 747-8 and 787-8 combined, but not giving any specific about how many of each.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 851 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Quoting oykie (Reply 16):
Boeing stated at the beginning of the year that they will deliver 20-40 747-8 and 787-8 combined, but not giving any specific about how many of each.

More recently than that (I think at the last earnings call) they said between 12 and 20 787s delivered this year.


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