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787 F&R Testing Begins  
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 4 months 20 hours ago) and read 10151 times:
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"EVERETT, Wash., June 27, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) yesterday started Function & Reliability (F&R) testing and extended operations (ETOPS) demonstrations on the 787 Dreamliner. This is the final phase of flight testing prior to certification of the airplane.

'We are ready for this final phase of flight testing,' said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. 'The team has created a solid plan for accomplishing the hours and test points required for F&R and ETOPS testing in support of delivery to our customer ANA in the August to September time period.' "

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1820

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 10012 times:
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Glad to hear that

Quote:
Boeing continues certification testing on 787s with General Electric engines and will conduct a separate F&R/ETOPS test program for that version of the airplane.

Hopefully the certification testing on the GEnx test aircraft will soon commence by the third quarter.
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1820

[Edited 2011-06-27 20:43:47]

User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 9873 times:

What exactly does F&R testing include? Will they add passengers? Move into airports and simulate a turnaround with people and luggage?

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 2):

What exactly does F&R testing include?

It comes out of a very general FAR that the OEM prove that the product works properly in a realistic operating environment. Basically, operate it like an airline would for a bunch of hours.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 2):
Will they add passengers?

The FAR's don't require that.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 2):
Move into airports and simulate a turnaround with people and luggage?

Airports and turns yes, but no particular requirement for people and luggage.

Tom.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19963 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 9781 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):

Airports and turns yes, but no particular requirement for people and luggage.

Really? Opening and closing the doors and bins and throwing heavy stuff around in them isn't necessary?

I'd figure that would be very necessary.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 9730 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Really? Opening and closing the doors and bins and throwing heavy stuff around in them isn't necessary?

I'd figure that would be very necessary.

Don't those designs have to be tested and certified prior to being placed in the aircraft? Seems like overkill to do it all again.


User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 9501 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Basically, operate it like an airline would for a bunch of hours.

You mean crashing luggage carts into it and having sex in the toilet whilst flying?

Fred


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 9305 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 6):
You mean crashing luggage carts into it and having sex in the toilet whilst flying?

Where can I make an application for this job?   



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineHacku From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2011, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 9164 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 2):

What exactly does F&R testing include? Will they add passengers? Move into airports and simulate a turnaround with people and luggage?

Boeing must demonstrate that the aircraft is able to divert to an airport on one engine, in more than an one hour flight.


User currently onlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 8942 times:

Quoting Hacku (Reply 8):
engine, in more than an one hour flight.

Aren't they trying for ETOPS 330? wouldn't that require the 787 to fly on one engine for 5.5 hours?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 8877 times:
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Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 9):
Aren't they trying for ETOPS 330? wouldn't that require the 787 to fly on one engine for 5.5 hours?

That is correct!

Quote:
"Because of a recent change to the rules, we need to make a software adjustment. [330min ETOPS certification] will be done in time for when it is needed [as a customer requirement]" said Boeing.

Boeing plans two-tiered ETOPS approval for 787


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Really? Opening and closing the doors and bins and throwing heavy stuff around in them isn't necessary?

I'd figure that would be very necessary.

It is necessary, just not to show F&R compliance. Baggage handling is certified in other testing.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 5):
Don't those designs have to be tested and certified prior to being placed in the aircraft? Seems like overkill to do it all again.

Exactly.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 7):
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 6):
You mean crashing luggage carts into it and having sex in the toilet whilst flying?

Where can I make an application for this job?   

You really want to drive a baggage loader that badly?

Quoting Hacku (Reply 8):
Boeing must demonstrate that the aircraft is able to divert to an airport on one engine, in more than an one hour flight.

That's an ETOPS requirement, not an F&R requirement.

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 9):
Aren't they trying for ETOPS 330? wouldn't that require the 787 to fly on one engine for 5.5 hours?

Yes. The Flightglobal article says they're going for 180 minutes now and 330 later...since all it sounds like they're doing is a software change to the fuel quantity system, it would make sense to fly 330 now and just use that data when the update the software.

Tom.


User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1581 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 8369 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 11):
You really want to drive a baggage loader that badly?

When in good condition, bag tugs and beltloaders can be a LOT of fun to drive. Container loaders, though... those seem like they'd be a bit sluggish... (never got the chance to drive one, sadly.)



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 12):
When in good condition, bag tugs and beltloaders can be a LOT of fun to drive. Container loaders, though... those seem like they'd be a bit sluggish... (never got the chance to drive one, sadly.)

It has to be a mighty LOT of fun if it is to compete with the other "required task" 
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 7):
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 6):
You mean crashing luggage carts into it and having sex in the toilet whilst flying?

Where can I make an application for this job?


[Edited 2011-06-28 09:29:34]

User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2446 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

The F&R requirement is found in 14 CFR 21.35(b) and (f):

(b) Upon showing compliance with paragraph (a) of this section, the applicant must make all flight tests that the FAA finds necessary--
(1) To determine compliance with the applicable requirements of this subchapter; and
(2) For aircraft to be certificated under this subchapter, except gliders and except airplanes of 6,000 lbs. or less maximum certificated weight that are to be certificated under Part 23 of this chapter, to determine whether there is reasonable assurance that the aircraft, its components, and its equipment are reliable and function properly.

......

(f) The flight tests prescribed in paragraph (b)(2) of this section must include--
(1) For aircraft incorporating turbine engines of a type not previously used in a type certificated aircraft, at least 300 hours of operation with a full complement of engines that conform to a type certificate; and
(2) For all other aircraft, at least 150 hours of operation.


http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...88C2B862576E4005279AD?OpenDocument



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19963 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 11):

You really want to drive a baggage loader that badly?

He wants to drive something, but I don't think the baggage loader is what interested him.  


User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 6253 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 11):
You really want to drive a baggage loader that badly?

After the state of the F/As on the last AA flight I took the baggage loader thing seems like it could be the best option.

Fred


User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 16):
After the state of the F/As on the last AA flight I took the baggage loader thing seems like it could be the best option.

Am I the only one who saw the AA FA joke coming from, like, 10 miles away?



Sic 'em bears
User currently onlinenotaxonrotax From Ecuador, joined Mar 2011, 489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months ago) and read 3584 times:
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Quoting AA777223 (Reply 17):

Am I the only one who saw the AA FA joke coming from, like, 10 miles away?

I sure didn't........and it gave me a chuckle.


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User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Just out of curiosity, anyone know what BOE flight number they're using? A few 787s are active today.


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

How long will the test take? It seems like all of them so far have been taking forever.


From the airport with love
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2802 times:
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Quoting goblin211 (Reply 20):
How long will the test take? It seems like all of them so far have been taking forever.

I have read that the ETOPS certification does not require a specific amount of hours, just reaching various thresholds. Boeing believes they can meet all these with 300 flight hours, so we're likely looking at around 6 weeks (since there will be downtime for maintenance and such).


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19):

Just out of curiosity, anyone know what BOE flight number they're using?

ZA102 flies as "BOE102".

Tom.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19963 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 17):
Am I the only one who saw the AA FA joke coming from, like, 10 miles away?

An AA F/A joke is NEVER ten miles away. In fact, they're so plentiful there are at least six or seven at arm's reach at any given time.  


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 952 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19):
Just out of curiosity, anyone know what BOE flight number they're using? A few 787s are active today.

I think its BOE102.


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