Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Anderson: "Delta May Cut Flights Beyond 4%"  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9134 times:

This is a headline with Bloomberg. There is not an associated article. Apparently CEO Anderson said it today at the Shareholder's Meeting.

From looking at the recent changes they have filed in OAG, my guess is that they have already gone beyond this level because they are heavily hacking Transatlantic. Those flights represent a lot of capacity. USA seems minorlly impacted outside of CVG/MEM. Pacific is also down quite a bit and with DL getting approval to defer one of their HND authorities, that will also remove a lot of ASMs.

Thoughts? It's looking like DL might have hired a few too many Flight Attendants this Spring.  

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8828 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Thoughts? It's looking like DL might have hired a few too many Flight Attendants this Spring.  

Well, the early out packages close today, so we will know then. I think DL does a pretty good job of offering leaves to cover overages. They don't furlough F/A's that often (only once in the 15 years that I was there).



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

I think airlines have passengers right where they want them. Over the past 3 years demand dropped so airlines continued to make small cuts to the point where I think they are rather sizable cuts. Now that demand is trickling back the airlines have all the pricing power with such little capacity out on the market. I've said this before, on my 100+ flights in the past year the only flights that were not 85% + full were odd ball flights to MLI and FSD.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8392 times:

You know how rumors go but I heard recently that they were looking at a slight pull-down of DCI capacity in Atlanta. 1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8148 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.

I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. US has their "flex bank" in PHX ending for the fall, and in CLT, the last bank of the night won't operate on Monday and Tuesday. That adds up to some cuts.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8093 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 1):

Well, the early out packages close today, so we will know then. I think DL does a pretty good job of offering leaves to cover overages. They don't furlough F/A's that often (only once in the 15 years that I was there).

FAs have a lot of attrition.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 2):
I think airlines have passengers right where they want them. Over the past 3 years demand dropped so airlines continued to make small cuts to the point where I think they are rather sizable cuts.

When all these new Airbus planes everybody is ordering start arriving we will see how capacity discipline holds up. It is awfully easy to hold on to a few old airplanes a little longer than predicted.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
You know how rumors go but I heard recently that they were looking at a slight pull-down of DCI capacity in Atlanta. 1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.

I'm sure they are looking at every possible scenario vs. WN.


User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7602 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 2):
Now that demand is trickling back the airlines have all the pricing power with such little capacity out on the market. I've said this before, on my 100+ flights in the past year the only flights that were not 85% + full were odd ball flights to MLI and FSD.

To be realistic, considering inflation over the past two decades, and standard ROI expectations for companies in the same revenue realm: if airlines truly had pricing power back, you'd pay a heck of a lot more than $358 for a NYC-LAX trip, and fares less than the $$ needed for SUV fill-ups driving on some routes.

 



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 6):
if airlines truly had pricing power back, you'd pay a heck of a lot more than $358 for a NYC-LAX trip, and fares less than the $$ needed for SUV fill-ups driving on some routes.

  

I couldn't agree more but Don't waste your time with that argument. Too many people on here think that fares should always be low and should've decreased over the years. With the exception of technology every commodity and service should be more in real value than it was 10 years ago.


User currently onlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7155 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):

I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. US has their "flex bank" in PHX ending for the fall, and in CLT, the last bank of the night won't operate on Monday and Tuesday. That adds up to some cuts.

I know this is OT, but actually the US in CLT is a good thing. They have this huge bank that leaves right when CLT closes all but one runway for noise abatement. Taxi delays add up quickly on that bank.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
You know how rumors go but I heard recently that they were looking at a slight pull-down of DCI capacity in Atlanta. 1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.

I suspect most of the domestic capacity that is cut will be at the regional level, with maybe some flights where RJ's are a filler cut, and large RJ's deployed on some routes to replace CRJ-200's that DL wants to get rid of. I notice that EV now operates a 700 from MSP-ATW, on a route that has previously been mainly 200's and Saabs, though they did fly 900's briefly.


User currently onlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5673 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
I suspect most of the domestic capacity that is cut will be at the regional level, with maybe some flights where RJ's are a filler cut, and large RJ's deployed on some routes to replace CRJ-200's that DL wants to get rid of. I notice that EV now operates a 700 from MSP-ATW, on a route that has previously been mainly 200's and Saabs, though they did fly 900's briefly.


There's been a lot of talk about pulling a large number of the 50 seat CRJs. Perhaps we'll see cuts made in this manner?


User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):

You know how rumors go but I heard recently that they were looking at a slight pull-down of DCI capacity in Atlanta. 1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.

I assume it'll be 50 seaters and probably not Comair since Comair has what, 16 -200s left? Does that mean ASA?


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
I suspect most of the domestic capacity that is cut will be at the regional level, with maybe some flights where RJ's are a filler cut, and large RJ's deployed on some routes to replace CRJ-200's that DL wants to get rid of. I notice that EV now operates a 700 from MSP-ATW, on a route that has previously been mainly 200's and Saabs, though they did fly 900's briefly.

I think we will see more of this in the future. EV's CR7s are having their paint flown off of them at the moment but there is still room to grow if they get their MTC issues under control. As it stands, dispatch reliability is what's brought down their daily trip #s.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
There's been a lot of talk about pulling a large number of the 50 seat CRJs. Perhaps we'll see cuts made in this manner?

You mean new talk? I know it was announced last year that there will be a gradual CR2 drawdown through 2012 with a majority of the frames coming from Comair. This is still on-going as far as I know. A question that I haven't gotten a solid answer on is RP. Their 145 flying can be folded into EV/OH/9E IMHO. TONS of slack in their (RP) fleet of ERJs. Not sure what will come out of it though.

Quoting norcal (Reply 10):
I assume it'll be 50 seaters and probably not Comair since Comair has what, 16 -200s left? Does that mean ASA?

I don't have that answer. Can someone chime in on exactly how many frames OH is currnetly operating? 200s/700s/900s. But yes, they word was ASA's departures would drop slightly. Let's look at AGS. AGS-ATL is currently at 9x daily with one being on a DC-9. CAE was another one although they now have 2 mainline departures and a CR7 thrown in but during other parts of the year, it's like 9 or 10x CR2. AVL-10x daily, CHA-10x daily, VPS-12x daily (4 CR7s and 1 mainline; back in the day there were less frequencies but all CR7s), MOB-9x daily (lost that 5pm CR7 but picked up a Mad Dog in the late evening). Anyway, you get the point. If they just trim a single or 2 departures from some of these stations, the numbers will add up. Especially when some of these departures are within an hour of each other in some cases



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
You know how rumors go but I heard recently that they were looking at a slight pull-down of DCI capacity in Atlanta. 1-2 flights in the largest markets adds up across the board. Again, not sure how true it is but this is what had been floating around.

Makes sense to me, especially in line with what you wrote below.

Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 6):
To be realistic, considering inflation over the past two decades, and standard ROI expectations for companies in the same revenue realm: if airlines truly had pricing power back, you'd pay a heck of a lot more than $358 for a NYC-LAX trip, and fares less than the $$ needed for SUV fill-ups driving on some routes.

Wait, what? Don;t you know that $199 transcon fares with surf-and-turf are a national birth right?!  
Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
I suspect most of the domestic capacity that is cut will be at the regional level, with maybe some flights where RJ's are a filler cut,

  

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
EV's CR7s are having their paint flown off of them at the moment

Literally!




Quote:
but there is still room to grow if they get their MTC issues under control. As it stands, dispatch reliability is what's brought down their daily trip #s.

Yes please!

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I don't have that answer. Can someone chime in on exactly how many frames OH is currnetly operating? 200s/700s/900s. But yes, they word was ASA's departures would drop slightly. Let's look at AGS. AGS-ATL is currently at 9x daily with one being on a DC-9. CAE was another one although they now have 2 mainline departures and a CR7 thrown in but during other parts of the year, it's like 9 or 10x CR2. AVL-10x daily, CHA-10x daily, VPS-12x daily (4 CR7s and 1 mainline; back in the day there were less frequencies but all CR7s), MOB-9x daily (lost that 5pm CR7 but picked up a Mad Dog in the late evening). Anyway, you get the point. If they just trim a single or 2 departures from some of these stations, the numbers will add up. Especially when some of these departures are within an hour of each other in some cases

Makes sense to me. Still offering decent lift in a given market, still keeping workers (and facilities) moving, and rationalizing capacity.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4621 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
TONS of slack in their (RP) fleet of ERJs. Not sure what will come out of it though.

Can you elaborate? Do you mean they aren't being flown to their potential max schedule?


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1734 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4473 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting norcal (Reply 13):
Can you elaborate? Do you mean they aren't being flown to their potential max schedule?

Aircraft utilization on Chautauqua's ERJ fleet is down; there is some slack in Delta's schedule for the ERJ.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
A question that I haven't gotten a solid answer on is RP. Their 145 flying can be folded into EV/OH/9E IMHO. TONS of slack in their (RP) fleet of ERJs. Not sure what will come out of it though.

The contract between Chautauqua and Delta runs several more years (it's either 2015 or 2017 when it ends - and I'm too lazy to go pull up Republic's annual report right now). What I am certain of, because I've read it several times, is the language involving an early termination. Unless Chautauqua screws up ala Mesa, the only way Delta can end the contract early is to assume the leases and/or ownership of the ERJ aircraft. I don't see that happening. Richard has been quoted a few times on Republic's carriers being in the top-tier of DCI carriers for operations and customers service.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I don't have that answer. Can someone chime in on exactly how many frames OH is currnetly operating? 200s/700s/900s.

Comair is still flying right around 60 CRJ-200's. I have 65 on the certificate but my list has not been updated in three weeks and there have been a few moves with the CRJ at OH since. 7 of the CRJ's are leased out to other DCI carriers but are counted against OH fleet.

15 CR7's and 13 CR9's. I don't believe the CR7 that was spun like a cork at JFK courtesy of Air France and the fat A380 is back in service - putting 14 CR7's currently flying.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 14):
The contract between Chautauqua and Delta runs several more years (it's either 2015 or 2017 when it ends - and I'm too lazy to go pull up Republic's annual report right now). What I am certain of, because I've read it several times, is the language involving an early termination. Unless Chautauqua screws up ala Mesa, the only way Delta can end the contract early is to assume the leases and/or ownership of the ERJ aircraft. I don't see that happening. Richard has been quoted a few times on Republic's carriers being in the top-tier of DCI carriers for operations and customers service.

I thought Republic was trying to get out of the contract flying game (at least the 50 seaters). What's the likelyhood of there being some sort of mutual termination. Has this ever been brought up?

Quoting n7371f (Reply 14):
15 CR7's and 13 CR9's. I don't believe the CR7 that was spun like a cork at JFK courtesy of Air France and the fat A380 is back in service - putting 14 CR7's currently flying.

Quite sad what Comair has come to.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
I thought Republic was trying to get out of the contract flying game (at least the 50 seaters). What's the likelyhood of there being some sort of mutual termination. Has this ever been brought up?

They desperately need the FFD contracts to keep the F9 side subsidized. The only way they'll give up these contracts early is if they have problems staffing the flying, in which case flights will be cancelled and DL will get their early out. That will probably happen before 2015-2017 given the schedule of major airline pilots set to retire starting next year. They already have problems staffing their airline now and are stretched thin. High levels of attrition, new FDTD rules, and the ATP rule will squeeze their ability to attract and retain pilots. Barring some major pay and work rule imporvements they'll have issues like the other regionals. The RJ problem will solve itself before the end of the decade if not earlier.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
Too many people on here think that fares should always be low and should've decreased over the years. With the exception of technology every commodity and service should be more in real value than it was 10 years ago.

WHAT?!? By "real value" you mean inflation-adjusted prices should have gone up? For every commodity? Are you serious? Standards of living have been gradually increasing for all of human history, but according to you, that should have stopped sometime in the last decade?

I suppose I'm one of the "too many people on here" because I prefer situations where I can snag cheap travel... such as the ORD-LGA for $109 being advertised on my screen now. And no, I don't expect a whole lot beyond a seat in a plane for that price. If capacity cuts continue, before long we'll be getting no more than a seat in a plane, AND we'll be paying $1/mile for it. Oh, also we'll have no choice where to connect...smaller and less delay-prone hubs like MEM and STL keep getting drawn down in favor of the clusterf**ks of ATL and ORD.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 17):
AND we'll be paying $1/mile for it. Oh, also we'll have no choice where to connect...smaller and less delay-prone hubs like MEM and STL keep getting drawn down in favor of the clusterf**ks of ATL and ORD.



You're essentially talking out of both sides of your mouth. It is BECAUSE of depressed airfares, such as the ones you so love, i.e. $109 LGA-ORD (i assume RT) that has the airlines where they are today. Hence, tightening capacity and pulling out of unprofitable markets and bolstering OPS that make money ex- ATL/ORD/DFW/EWR, etc.........

So, we sit here and complain about "high fares" and hubs yet we are upset that airlines are doing what they have to do to keep fares down and make money at the same time. I forgot this business was a charity, my bad  



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7233 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Article up on www.cnn.com on how the Weak Dollar is boosting domestic travel, for the year 2010 the US Travel Association say $760 billion was spent of which $656 billion was spent by US Residents, as usual they state that stringent US visa requirements have led to the discrapancy of foreign traveller.
Regardless, if $656 billion is spent by US residents on domestic travel, cut backs on international flights by domestic carriers is expected, the boom in domestic travel is shared among a wider range of carriers with much lower margins, hence the increase in funds collected via the dreaded fees.


User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 6): if airlines truly had pricing power back, you'd pay a heck of a lot more than $358 for a NYC-LAX trip, and fares less than the $$ needed for SUV fill-ups driving on some routes.


I couldn't agree more but Don't waste your time with that argument. Too many people on here think that fares should always be low and should've decreased over the years. With the exception of technology every commodity and service should be more in real value than it was 10 years ago.

Both good points. But with regard to the second: Optional flying, whether for business or vacations can be greatly affected by price. In either case the would be flyer may well be assessing how to get the most business/fun out of those hard to earn dollars. I think we are seeing a lot of that now.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 20):
In either case the would be flyer may well be assessing how to get the most business/fun out of those hard to earn dollars. I think we are seeing a lot of that now.

And most certainly quite correctly.....it's done by everyone across the spectrum. My own view is that anyone (here or otherwise) who feels fares should be higher on principle is more than welcome to pay them. I'll bet there's no takers though in reality.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta To Cut More Flights To Colorado Springs. posted Mon Nov 4 2002 05:53:52 by DeltaBoy777
City Of San Francisco May Force UA To Cut Flights posted Thu Apr 20 2000 23:33:34 by ORD
Delta Adding DCA Flights posted Wed Jul 28 2010 06:07:03 by RL757PVD
Why Do Airlines Cut Flights When Times Get Tough? posted Sun Mar 21 2010 09:07:44 by B6A322
Delta HNL-DTW Flights posted Wed Mar 3 2010 07:20:25 by TYCOON
AA May Cut More Capacity posted Fri Mar 13 2009 08:42:46 by LAXDESI
Police Certification May Ground Flights At JAC posted Tue Sep 30 2008 06:33:21 by FlyASAGuy2005
Will Many Intl Airlines Cut Flights Into US? posted Thu Jun 26 2008 16:52:35 by Boeing743
Delta Trans Continental Flights posted Mon Jun 23 2008 17:54:03 by Jeffrey1970
Delta Mexico Connecting Flights At LAX posted Tue Feb 19 2008 11:37:41 by Nomadic