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California's San Bernardino Airport In Trouble  
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8816 times:

Looks like KSBD is under the microscope.. shame they haven't been able to attract even one airline customer for scheduled Part 121 service. There's mention of Scot Spencer and his laughable role in "Braniff III" within the article.. things are certainly looking down for KSBD.

"San Bernardino International Airport officials have spent the past five years planning for a deluge of air travelers. The fact that there hasn't been a trickle, or even a single passenger, hasn't stopped them from building ever-costlier terminals and other buildings."

More here: http://www.pe.com/localnews/politics...s_Local_D_grandjury02.3f3bef0.html


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Horrible financial oversight. Whose fault is it that California is bankrupt?

To be fair, the airport is in a good location to serve the Inland Empire - a lot of those people don't want to make the drive down to SNA - but it would probably need to be an LCC...it would take a lot to bring a network carrier in.


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8745 times:

I think the bigger problem for SBD is ONT. ONT has a slew of service, SBD would have 1 maybe 2. Plus ONT is directly off the highway.. SBD is inland a bit, and is in the center of a pretty disastrous neighborhood. The place has been in a state of decline since the base closed.


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2130 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Thread starter):
KSBD is under the microscope

Apparently it is those who keep feeding this white elephant who seem to be under the microscope.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

^^ I could have seen Alligiant fly from there, but even they chose other options in the LA area.

There really aren't many airlines out there to look at anymore. With all the mergers and consolidation that have occurred, there really isn't many options to target, especially ones to bring in a sizable operation.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8637 times:

ONT is more closer to SBD than SNA is. And ONT has decent air service to cater to the Inland Empire.
SBD is not going to have large passenger traffic to justify air service.

Between LAX, SNA, LGB, ONT, SAN and BUR, 95% of Southern California traffic is covered.
And then there is PSP for whatever little remains.

[Edited 2011-07-02 10:49:46]

User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8627 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
To be fair, the airport is in a good location to serve the Inland Empire - a lot of those people don't want to make the drive down to SNA - but it would probably need to be an LCC...it would take a lot to bring a network carrier in.

Quite the opposite, SBD is in a horrible area and the location does not make it easily accesible. ONT is down the road and there would be no reason to open up operations at SBD if you were any airline.

FX1816


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5469 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8627 times:

SBD does have beautiful facilities. I drove up there and looked around when G4 was sniffing around and about to announce their choice of airport for the So Cal region. Workers were actually just finishing up work at the terminal building and parking lot the day I was there and I was amazed how much was being done for an airport with absolutely no tenants... or pax! (That was why, at the time, I figured Allegiant HAD to be ready to announce SBD as their station for LA.)

ONT is certainly the main competition for San Bernardino but even Ontario is suffering from hardcore underutilization from the airline community. In the LA megalopolis everything seems to be happening out on the coast -- LAX, SNA, and LGB -- and that's probably how it will remain for a while. Eventually, with those airports filling up, I'm sure ONT (and maybe even SBD some day) will necessarily see traffic increases.

And now, with findings the article talks about as a result of the grand jury investigation, things start to make some sense unfortunately. After all, this IS California! Too bad...

bb


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 3):
Apparently it is those who keep feeding this white elephant who seem to be under the microscope.

This is true.. but on the other hand, I think KSBD would have been in better shape if they'd held off a bit on some of these "massive" developments. READ: Its arguable that SBD wouldn't have grown at all without some improvements, but it would appear that without the added revenue and economic boost of scheduled airline service, KSBD is actually a white elephant because they spent the money.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
I could have seen Alligiant fly from there, but even they chose other options in the LA area.

THey gave it a hard look, and eventually determined that it just didn't have the draw (even with rediculous low fares) that LAX, BUR, and ONT would.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8486 times:

Looking at the virtual tour of the airport, it looks as if there is no space or security between check-in and the gates, it looks like it is a single area. (Currently obviously as that would change should an airline ever decide to serve there)


Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 8):
THey gave it a hard look, and eventually determined that it just didn't have the draw (even with rediculous low fares) that LAX, BUR, and ONT would.

That is what G4 has done in some markets. They opened up shop in Bakersfield. That station was short lived, really short lived. Maybe they could give SBD a try. Also what about that new airline, California Pacific Airlines. http://www.flycpair.com/ Maybe instead of the Oakland Bay area they could set up shop in SBD. Would the airport give tax breaks or reduced landing fees if an airline starts service there



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3508 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 2):
I think the bigger problem for SBD is ONT. ONT has a slew of service, SBD would have 1 maybe 2. Plus ONT is directly off the highway.. SBD is inland a bit, and is in the center of a pretty disastrous neighborhood. The place has been in a state of decline since the base closed.

I can't imagine why anyone would fly to SBD when ONT is right down the road. There's a big market in the Inland Empire to be sure, I just don't see how it needs two airports. Shame that they blew so much money on top-notch facilities...



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently onlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8013 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
^^ I could have seen Alligiant fly from there, but even they chose other options in the LA area.

Where would G4 fly to? SBD is smack dab in the middle of their 2 'hubs' at AZA and LAS. Even though San Bernardino/Riverside may have the population...let's just say they're economically challenging demographics.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 12):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
^^ I could have seen Alligiant fly from there, but even they chose other options in the LA area.

Where would G4 fly to? SBD is smack dab in the middle of their 2 'hubs' at AZA and LAS. Even though San Bernardino/Riverside may have the population...let's just say they're economically challenging demographics.

The point was more referring to before G4 chose LAX as their LA destination. Also, I'm not sure how it is in the middle of AZA and LAS. Additionally, the CA market is big enough that it could support a hub.



Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlineKSBD From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Looks like I'll probably have to change my Airliner.net Username 

User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13139 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

Perhaps SBD could be converted to a freight airport, or for pax charters taking a load off LAX and other airports in the SoCal region.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Maybe they should offer F9 some subsidy money. That may get them some scheduled service for a while.  

User currently offlineAUSisAwesome From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6982 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 16):
Maybe they should offer F9 some subsidy money. That may get them some scheduled service for a while.

That is possible like they did with PVU when SLC was nearby. However, traveling to this area quite often for family, we usually fly to SNA or ONT, sometimes even PSP.


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6388 times:

The housing collapse killed SBD. The Inland Empire was one of the most overbuilt housing areas in the U.S. and has amongst the highest default rates. The more established ONT is struggling to retain carriers. SBD area just does not have enough demand to attract commercial service.

User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

What company does maintenance or modifications there? I saw the Omni 777 there some time last month, seen a G4 757 there, always seems to be 727s around and yesterday there was a private 757 with winglets there. I can’t get picture of this because I am with students at the time, I am always half tempted to fly back up there, make a stop at the very nice Million Air just to get some pictures of all the neat stuff there. Just curious what company it is, they seem to keep busy.

Unfortunately, that is the only thing there that has any life.


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

Well SBD loss out to RIV for the DHL hub. You all know how that work out for RIV.

User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Looks to me like SBD is another YMX (Mirabel) in the making. To twist the saying around, "They built it, but nobody came."

User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 21):
Looks to me like SBD is another YMX (Mirabel) in the making. To twist the saying around, "They built it, but nobody came."

Certainly goes to show that building something is no garauntee that service will come.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 18):
The housing collapse killed SBD. The Inland Empire was one of the most overbuilt housing areas in the U.S. and has amongst the highest default rates. The more established ONT is struggling to retain carriers. SBD area just does not have enough demand to attract commercial service.

So true. When ONT is struggling for service, doesnt leave many options for SBD.


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

I think it has lots to do with the "San Bernardino that existed before Norton closed." That is to say, it's easy to envision a conversion of a military base located in an active and decent community to a commercial airport.. but what may failed to realize was that the local economy was directly tied to the military base. So here comes SBD triumphantly renovating itself, and attracts non-other than Scott Spencer as its shining star. Oops. Then they drop another cool $100 million in airport renovations, wooing only Million Air. Double oops.

Now the local area is in a state of serious decline. Driving through there 2 years ago during Winter before heading up to Big Bear, my wife and I locked the doors to the car for the short drive from the freeway to KSBD's terminal. We don't do that very often, but we were very uncomfortable in the area.

For KSBD to woo customers, they need a demographic that needs/wants to travel.. a demographic that would prefer SBD over ONT's infrastructure and convenience.

[Edited 2011-07-02 22:30:29]

[Edited 2011-07-02 22:30:48]


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4624 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 19):
What company does maintenance or modifications there?

It's a paint shop:
http://www.aeropros.com/

Quoting C767P (Reply 19):
make a stop at the very nice Million Air

That's the nicest FBO I've ever visited.

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 23):
Now the local area is in a state of serious decline. Driving through there 2 years ago during Winter before heading up to Big Bear, my wife and I locked the doors to the car for the short drive from the freeway to KSBD's terminal. We don't do that very often, but we were very uncomfortable in the area.

It's not that bad now. The area right beside the interstate is actually very nice (they've put in several "outdoor malls" and a couple of hotels). Much of the rest of the space to the airport is now filled by the *giant* Stater Bros. distribution center (a grocery chain). I didn't find it off-putting at all.

Tom.


25 shufflemoomin : I'm confused. I know nothing about this facility, but is someone telling me that someone built a full airport without any service lined up? It's just
26 Post contains links bjorn14 : Exactly. You know an airport is in tough shape when they tout it as a film location. I would give PMD a better chance of getting service before SBD.
27 LAXintl : No, its not a new fresh airport. The airport is a decommissioned military base.(Norton AFB) Only real new investment has been a smallish passenger te
28 tb727 : ONT has a UPS hub and a sizable FedEx operation, there are also ample facilities for ad hoc charters there at ONT. A problem with SBD is you are real
29 FX1816 : I disagree, SBD has a really low chance of actually getting air service but they do have a better shot than PMD receiving any air service again. Not
30 mrskyguy : All of that was present when I drove through there last.. and it was still a very rough area. The entire area has been hit with very rough economic t
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