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Sad Days For Italian Passengers  
User currently offlinemontenegro From Italy, joined May 1999, 545 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18333 times:

In a last few days I have had a chance to travel a lot using Lufthansa Italia with their A319 based in MIlano Malpensa. Although for the price, but the real feeling was so great due to the comfort and passenger attention that was lost years ago here in Italy. Now the service continues but only until October when LHItaly will deploy and finsih it services, what a sad thing, really.

Savo, Milano, Italia

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineyp6370 From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18306 times:

Hopefully Air Dolomiti will expand it's network and offer more routes.
Apparently they already applied for slots on BGY-FRA.

Milan is not an easy market. You still have AZ from LIN which is much more attractive to business customers, U2 from MXP and FR from BGY.


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17362 times:

are they pulling out because of weak business or because they could not agree on wages with their pilot union? What's the scoop?

User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15247 times:

Sad day indeed, to have to go from LH essentially to uggh, AZ and the other Italian LCC's

User currently onlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1884 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11921 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

I've never flown with LHI, but I did dispatch multiple of their charter flights. It's a real loss, the crew was fantastic and the coffee was the best I've ever had on any airline!

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11500 times:
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I understand it's due to insufficient passenger numbers. I agree with everything Montenegro says, and more. The crew were always very friendly and nothing was too much for them.

However, whenever I flew, mainly to LIS, the plane was only half full and I was often the only pax in business. There was a lot of competition on the route as well from TAP and Easyjet.

From chatting with the crew, they are all full LH employees on rotation (is that the correct word?) from Frankfurt so I guess they will just be redeployed on other LH flights. I don't think there will be any redundancies.

A great shame and sorry to see them go.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10431 times:

Many seemed to have doubts when LHI started ops. Seems they were right.

A great product does not always bring results, and Milan is a competitive market. MXP's location also is a disadvantage over LIN, particularly trying to gain higher yield pax. Pity.


User currently offlineaerofede From Italy, joined Sep 2006, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 8749 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):
From chatting with the crew, they are all full LH employees on rotation (is that the correct word?) from Frankfurt so I guess they will just be redeployed on other LH flights. I don't think there will be any redundancies.

They are mixed between LH mainline (German) captains and first officers, and Italian first officers employed by LHI. Cabin crews are mainly italians working for LHI.

They are awating news about their exact fate, but pilots are probably working for some other airline in LH group (probably LH and 4U).

From an ATC point of view, it is great to work with them, as they are cooperative, precise and flexible. Not the usual italian kind (read AZ AP).

Sad to see them go, maybe having some long-haul flights from MXP could have helped them bring some more passengers to MXP. Who knows...
Mainly they were competing with U2, that was starting with a lower base fare, attracting more economy class passengers.
And certainly the fact that AZ is doing whatever it likes in LIN does not help. BGY and FR are on a partially different market, because not many people are willing to drive from western Lombardy and Piedmont to BGY only to save a few euros, that are probably going to be spent on parking fees.


User currently offlineOwleye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 959 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 7500 times:

I was told that LH ends Lufthansa Italia because the Italians prefer genuine Italian airlines above 'foreign' Italian-like airlines despite all efforts by LH to give the Italian public the best of the best...

Do you remember the British public dislike of BA's world tails? Maybe a wrong comparision in this but it says enough how carefull airlines sometimes have to manouvre with their brand and that some ideas simply do not work.


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):
I understand it's due to insufficient passenger numbers.

Indeed, but Franz also told it was a yield issue with LHI.

Too much competion in the Milan Area, with the p2p european market well covered by AZ out of LIN (more biz oriented), U2 from MXP and FR out of BGY for the more leisure one.
And we don't have to forget also AP that fly serveral domestic routes from the same Terminal 1 of Malpensa where LHI is operating at.


User currently offlinechopchop767 From Italy, joined Aug 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

LH Italia going away is regrettable. Although I've only flown them one time, from Naples to Milan, I'm greatful that LH has a large enough market in Naples to service the airport with multiple flights to Munich and one daily to Frankfurt. Their service is far and away better than Alitalia's.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 8):

I was told that LH ends Lufthansa Italia because the Italians prefer genuine Italian airlines above 'foreign' Italian-like airlines despite all efforts by LH to give the Italian public the best of the best...

You can't deny a strong xenophobic current in Italy, but I don't think that's the case here. I suspect the cost of operating a mini-hub at MXP was just too high to justify the service. Are the gate attendants at MXP LH empoyees? At all of the other Italian airports, aside from FCO I believe, they're contractors.



this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

Sad LH Italia is going to disappear... Do you think it would work better if they tried to do the same thing they were doing at MXP with some other airport, like Venice or Bologna?

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 11):
Do you think it would work better if they tried to do the same thing they were doing at MXP with some other airport, like Venice or Bologna?

LH has plans to strengthen Air Dolomiti, and that should do better at these smaller places.


User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 5468 times:
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Quoting Owleye (Reply 8):

I was told that LH ends Lufthansa Italia because the Italians prefer genuine Italian airlines above 'foreign' Italian-like airlines despite all efforts by LH to give the Italian public the best of the best...

I'm not so sure of that. Many Italians fly ex Lugano because of the Swiss reliability and LUG is rarely burdened with fog.
Many also prefer to transit ZRH than Rome when flying long haul.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 2):
are they pulling out because of weak business or because they could not agree on wages with their pilot union? What's the scoop?

Wages and unions is not something they had problems with to my information. Yields are, as you hear. Besides, Franz wants to strengthen the Air Dolomiti brand. It seems both airlines interfered with one another on their home turf north Italian market. Better to sacrifice one airline to make the other one work then force both into steady decline.

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):
However, whenever I flew, mainly to LIS, the plane was only half full and I was often the only pax in business. There was a lot of competition on the route as well from TAP and Easyjet.

Strange, since TAP is in *A too. Oh well, it can't always work out for LH...

Quoting Owleye (Reply 8):
I was told that LH ends Lufthansa Italia because the Italians prefer genuine Italian airlines above 'foreign' Italian-like airlines despite all efforts by LH to give the Italian public the best of the best...

Well, the Italian feedback on this forum concerning LHI are generally positive, though that likely does not represent the big flying public. However, it's not like Air Dolomiti is a genuinely italian brand. Let's keep it secret, shall we?  



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Maybe it would have worked out better with a different name? Lufthansa Italia has a pretty German-centric sound to it. Maybe something like Song or Ted would have worked out better   jk.


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

So are they pulling out of MXP all together? What about moving some flights over to LIN? I flew on a LH 319 to LIN. It is so much more convenient than MXP.

Here we are landing on a LH A319 in Milan, Italy LIN.
http://youtu.be/fCr1UZxfPqM?hd=1



Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

As per my knowledge, LH's second long-range feeder market has since long been Italy.

However LHI was not really designed as LH long-range feeder, more, it was developed for mainline routes from Italy.

From my knowledge of Milano, I would always favor flights to/from LIN rather than MXP, which is far away, expensive to reach, and no reason to use if I can take an option to&from LIN.

Perhaps LHI concentrated too much on MXP without evaluating in this case, my personal opinion regarding airport preference.


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 16):
What about moving some flights over to LIN?

No slots available there for LH or other carriers.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 16):
So are they pulling out of MXP all together? What about moving some flights over to LIN? I flew on a LH 319 to LIN. It is so much more convenient than MXP.

But then I guess you flew with LH mainline, not LHI. I never heard of LHI flying to Linate. However, this begs the question why they didn't put their base to LIN in the first place. It could have saved a lot of money, maybe.

Quoting 123 (Reply 17):
As per my knowledge, LH's second long-range feeder market has since long been Italy.

They say that MUC is the northern-most italian airport, thanks to Air Dolomiti. If Italy accounts as the second largest long-haul feeder for the LH network, I'm not too sure about. I used to work at FRA along the gates of LH's TATL and far-east flights, and I rarely met italians.
I guess MUC profits off the far north italian market (which through history happens to have a big german-speaking minority) a lot more than FRA, just looking at the sheer amount of EN aircraft at the gates at some times of the day. As a whole, LH is going to do better by downgrading LHI and strengthening EN as a MUC-feeder, and that's what the italian adventure is all about. Those who critizised the LHI idea (being a sovereign italian carrier) were right, and unfortunately the Milano metropolitan area will lose out on a carrier I never had the chance to fly on. But that's business. Overall, I guess Air Dolomiti has a better future now. AFAIK the head of LHI will go to EN, so that can only mean it's going to get better.
That off my soul the only thing left to say is: Alitalia, watch out!



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
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