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Airbus V. Boeing Direct Competitor Types.  
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3450 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9664 times:

I was wondering if someone could post a list of each companies comparable a/c types, i.e., 318 v. 717, etc. I get so confused with all the different numbers   Thanks


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerenterghem From Netherlands, joined Jun 2011, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

Something like this...

Airbus A380 vs Boeing 747
Airbus A350 800 vs Boeing 787
Airbus A350 900 vs Boeing 777-200
Airbus A350 1000 vs Boeing 777-300
Airbus A340 vs Boeing 777
Airbus A330 vs Boeing 767-300ER and Boeing 777
Airbus A320 vs Boeing 737-700 and Boeing 737-800
Airbus A321 vs Boeing 737-900 and Boeing 757-200

[Edited 2011-07-03 12:20:25]

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30988 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9621 times:
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Note that Airbus and Boeing try not to directly target each other, because at that point then the only real decision factor is the contract price and neither OEM wants to sell their product the cheapest.

So the following are personal opinion and include models that are not direct competitors, but that can cover the same market and mission segments. This also includes historical models no longer in production by both OEMs.


737-600 - A318-100
737-700 - A319-100
737-800 - A320-200
737-900 - A321-100
737-900ER - A321-200

747-400 - A340-600
747-400 - A350-1000
747-8 - A380-800

767-300ER - A330-200
767-300ER - A340-200
767-300ER - A350-800
767-400ER - A330-200
767-400ER - A350-800

777-200 - A330-300
777-200ER - A330-300E/X
777-200ER - A340-300
777-200ER - A350-900
777-200LR - A340-500
777-300 - A340-600
777-300 - A350-1000
777-300ER - A340-600
777-300ER - A350-1000

787-8 - A330-200
787-8 - A350-800
787-9 - A330-300E/X
787-9 - A340-300
787-9 - A350-900

[Edited 2011-07-03 12:26:42]

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9588 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
So the following are personal opinion and include models that are not direct competitors, but that can cover the same market and mission segments. This also includes historical models no longer in production by both OEMs.

Brilliant, Thanks.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12558 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9374 times:

I imagine the most controversial line would be:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
747-8 - A380-800

and if allowed, the following:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):

747-400 - A340-600
747-400 - A350-1000

should be rewritten as:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):

747-400 - 777W

Meaning both A and B both felt the 747-400 replacement market would fall to the four-hole VLAs, but it seems a huge slice of it is falling to the 77Ws.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30988 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9293 times:
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I am 100% certain that the A340-600 would have knifed the 747-400 in the kidney. It carried more payload (both by weight and volume), it flew farther and it burned significantly less fuel.

The A350-1000 will be massively more fuel efficient than the 747-400, will carry significantly more payload by volume, should be within the ballpark of payload by weight and will almost certainly fly farther. It's late to the party as a 747-400 replacement (the 777-300ER already has a full dance card with more suitors waiting against the wall), but I could see it still securing orders in that role.


User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):

747-400 - 777W

Meaning both A and B both felt the 747-400 replacement market would fall to the four-hole VLAs, but it seems a huge slice of it is falling to the 77Ws.

The A346 targeted the 744 and actually marked the begging of the end for the 744. Then later the 777 proved to be too good and killed the A346.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6599 times:
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Quoting renterghem (Reply 1):
Something like this...
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
So the following are personal opinion

Both posts are very thoughtful.

Thanks guys.


User currently offlinefarzan From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
So the following are personal opinion and include models that are not direct competitors, but that can cover the same market and mission segments. This also includes historical models no longer in production by both OEMs.

Personal or not, a really good comparison.

Two questions though, are all these types (A&B) still available for new orders? And secondly could a 736 do transatlantic in a similar configuration as the BA A-318.

Thanks


User currently offlinejwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6170 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
I am 100% certain that the A340-600 would have knifed the 747-400 in the kidney. It carried more payload (both by weight and volume), it flew farther and it burned significantly less fuel.

real aviation experts (including those working for the airlines to select future fleets) disagreed. I tend to trust them more than some anonymous kid on the internet...

Quoting Carls (Reply 6):
The A346 targeted the 744 and actually marked the begging of the end for the 744. Then later the 777 proved to be too good and killed the A346.

actually the 346 never did gain significant ground against the 744, with orders for the latter continuing strong despite the competition.
What really meant a decline in 744 orders was the announcement of the 748, with the 777 serving as a good alternative on lower density routes where 744s were becoming unprofitable due to the downturn in passenger volume post-9/11.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
787-8 - A330-200
787-8 - A350-800
787-9 - A330-300E/X
787-9 - A340-300
787-9 - A350-900

Excellent list, only the A358 is bigger than the A332 and comparable to 333 in size, so I would write this chapter as

787-8 - A330-200
787-9 - A330-300E/X
787-9 - A340-300
787-9 - A350-800
787-10 - A350-900

And Airbus has nothing to offer in the 767-300 size.

But as others noted, the aircraft missions are not identical.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30988 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5897 times:
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Quoting jwenting (Reply 9):
actually the 346 never did gain significant ground against the 744, with orders for the latter continuing strong despite the competition.

Commercial launch of the A340-600 was December 1997. From January 1998, Boeing sold 35 747-400s, 6 747-400ERs and 4 747-400Ms, with the last order placed in November 2002. That's less than half the number of A340-600s sold and 747-400 operators including LH, VS, CX, SA and TG were all A340-600 customers and if Airbus offered the Orders and Deliveries data granularity that Boeing does, I would expect that few if any of them placed a follow-on order for the 747-400 once they ordered the A340-600.



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10):
Excellent list, only the A358 is bigger than the A332 and comparable to 333 in size...

Well Airbus themselves are pushing the A350-800 as an A330-200 replacement, so I feel it appropriate to list it as such.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Well Airbus themselves are pushing the A350-800 as an A330-200 replacement

Are they? The A358 is in a niche of ultra long range, far beyond the A340-8000. I think they push it as B772LR replacement, for A330 replacement it is a bit too early in my opinion.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12558 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
It's late to the party as a 747-400 replacement (the 777-300ER already has a full dance card with more suitors waiting against the wall), but I could see it still securing orders in that role.

That's the right way of putting it, especially seeing the newly delayed EIS of the -1000.

Quoting farzan (Reply 8):
Two questions though, are all these types (A&B) still available for new orders?

Yes, see:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
This also includes historical models no longer in production by both OEMs.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30988 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5329 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 12):
Are they?

I have a presentation by Airbus comparing the A350-800 to the A330-200 and touting the advantages of the former.  


User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
737-600 - A318-100
737-700 - A319-100
737-800 - A320-200
737-900 - A321-100
737-900ER - A321-200

747-400 - A340-600
747-400 - A350-1000
747-8 - A380-800

767-300ER - A330-200
767-300ER - A340-200
767-300ER - A350-800
767-400ER - A330-200
767-400ER - A350-800

777-200 - A330-300
777-200ER - A330-300E/X
777-200ER - A340-300
777-200ER - A350-900
777-200LR - A340-500
777-300 - A340-600
777-300 - A350-1000
777-300ER - A340-600
777-300ER - A350-1000

787-8 - A330-200
787-8 - A350-800
787-9 - A330-300E/X
787-9 - A340-300
787-9 - A350-900

Very nicely done, thanks.

Any chance we can get someone to note next to each line which aircraft is inherently superior to the other one?



ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1583 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

reply 15
Any chance we can get someone to note next to each line which aircraft is inherently superior to the other one?

I sincerely hope not as we all know where such a posting will lead.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12558 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting Grid (Reply 15):
Any chance we can get someone to note next to each line which aircraft is inherently superior to the other one?

It simply depends on who is making the notations:

US Flag next to Username: Boeing!
Non-US Flag next to Username: Airbus!

 



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 968 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
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Quoting parapente (Reply 16):
Any chance we can get someone to note next to each line which aircraft is inherently superior to the other one?

Would probably be easier to fly to Mars than reconcile such a list here on A.net.

BEG2IAH



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

Some people could tell I was joking.


ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

And keep in mind that the old debate of Hubs versus P2P (and CASM versus RASM) is not really about absolutes, but about tendencies. Any plane with the range to do the mission is a potential competitor for that mission. As far everything besides range, well, it all depends.


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User currently offlinefuelfool From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

How many of the planes are in service? Some of the ones listed are not in service, yet or anymore.


I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning...Smells like victory!
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Is there an Airbus equivalent to the Boeing 757?


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30988 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3142 times:
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Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 22):
Is there an Airbus equivalent to the Boeing 757?

In terms of capacity/payload, the A321-200 comes closest, though it lacks the range.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

It should be neutral if one just publishes the number of orderd aircraft for each type. All those airlines cannot be wrong as example to have more 77W sold than A346 or more A332 than B764. Still better is not an easy measure, since what is better for one airline must not be better for the other, and the differences are tiny since both manufacturers build up to date planes, and they use the same engines ( plus minus a few %).

When LH as example says they have compared the A346 twice in detail with the 77W and the A346 does better for them, I can assume there is some substance in this research, as much as in the reseach to prefer the 748I over the 77W. And when they cannot decide between 787-1000 and A359-900 based on what is known about these birds now, we should not discuss that with our knowledge that cannot be better.


25 gkirk : And generally all round performance, for example, the A321 cannot do JSI-UK nonstop due to the short runway at JSI, however a 757-200 can do. JSI-UK
26 Post contains images BOACCunard : Alright, here is my take, based more one what I perceive as the manufacturers' market positioning of their products than actual capabilities (e.g. Boe
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