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US And The E190  
User currently onlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3181 posts, RR: 8
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

This might be a stupid question, but it's something I've been wondering for a while. As I understand, US is currently trying to get rid of its E190s. Is it not meeting the expectations for the airline? Being a loyal Airbus customer, why didn't they opt to pick the A318? Not only is there fleet commonality, it carries more passengers than the E190. Or is the A318 more costly to operate than the E190?


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5596 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Or is the A318 more costly to operate than the E190?

   By the time you are operating an A318, you almost might as well be operating an A320 and filling the remaining seats at super-saver fares.

The issue is just that mainline 100-seater economics are almost impossible.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

US sold 10 E190 to Republic in 2009 much due to the need to quickly drop capacity, and the fact the model was quite popular and easy to establish a quick transaction to raise money with.

At the time the President Scott Kirby actually said his wish was not to part with the model as it offered US some unique route opportunities, but the E190 was the only fleet model they had flexibility to quickly shed.

Today US is left with a small'ish and orphan 15 aircraft fleet. Certainly operating such a small size fleet has negatives with it. In the long run either more frames likely need to be added which seems unlikely today, or the remaining 15 will need to go bye-bye as well.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

How does JetBlue make its large E190 fleet work? Is it because it's labor costs are dramatically lower?


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

US likes the E190. Unfortunately, it has a minimum fleet count it has to maintain per its pilot contracts. When US felt the need to reduce capacity last year, the only planes they could get rid of were the E90's. These aircraft were not part of the minimum fleet count since they were added after the US/HP merger.

[Edited 2011-07-06 17:47:17]

User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2894 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 3):
How does JetBlue make its large E190 fleet work? Is it because it's labor costs are dramatically lower?

B6 recently announced that it will be capping its fleet at 75. The aircraft has a higher cost than expected at this point for multiple reasons. We have already seen at least one (maybe more, I can't remember) lease return, traded a new plane from the factory line for the older one whose lease was expiring.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5314 times:

Doesn't US still have a bunch on order to replace its 737-300s?

User currently onlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3181 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 4):
When US felt the need to reduce capacity last year, the only planes they could get rid of were the E90's.

Oh OK. I always thought it was because the E-190 was operating at a loss. Interesting.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

I don't recall the whole story, but part of the shed was tied to the union contract with the pilots.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3540 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

"How does JetBlue make its large E190 fleet work? Is it because it's labor costs are dramatically lower?"

B6 190 labor costs are high. Pilots are the highest paid 190 pilots around. 90% of 320 Airbus pay. Kudos to them for setting the bar high


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4605 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

In an ideal world, I think US would rather be dumping A319s and the rest of the 733s for more 190s and 195s. Unfortunately they are screwed until the pilot contracts get figured out or they get gobbled up by someone else - who will solve the pilot issue.

User currently offlinemsypi7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Doesn't US still have a bunch on order to replace its 737-300s?

The 733 & 734 are being replaced by 320/321's. Mostly 321's, IIRC of the top of my head 11 321's to arrive this year.

MD


User currently offlineplanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

I had always hoped that US would bring some of the E190's out west for some of its thinner routes. But I think they're pretty much dedicated to the Shuttle routes?

User currently offlinemsypi7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting planenutz (Reply 12):
I had always hoped that US would bring some of the E190's out west for some of its thinner routes. But I think they're pretty much dedicated to the Shuttle routes?

We get them here in MSY on Saturdays, usually 2 per day to/from PHL. There are some other non-shuttle cites that see them as well, but most seem to fly in/out of PHL.

If this pilot situation ever gets resolved, I believe there is a good chance that US will take delivery of more 190's. US is on record that they do like the airplane and the have a good use for it, but the time will eventually come when they will have to make a decision one way or the other.

Personally I am hopeful that they will receive more of them.

MD


User currently offlineOak522 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

They run:
Shuttle and quasi-Shuttle (I've ridden DCA-LGA, DCA-BOS, BOS-PHL)
Thin late-evening routes where F is in demand (e.g., PHL-PIT)
LOOOONG and thin (e.g., PHL-DFW)

When they introduced the F makeover in April all I heard from the F flight attendants on Shuttle is that they had no idea where all of the china and food would go in the forward galley on those longer flights. I haven't had a long enough flight to try out the updated service, but I imagine it would be tight quarters for the crew. That said, I love E-190--either in F or Y--as the seats in both cabins are huge. The only real problem is the stupidly small port overhead compartment in F.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Quoting msypi7185 (Reply 11):
The 733 & 734 are being replaced by 320/321's. Mostly 321's, IIRC of the top of my head 11 321's to arrive this year.

How are they going to replace a 733 with a 321? Thats a difference of about 60 seats!

Quoting Oak522 (Reply 14):
LOOOONG and thin (e.g., PHL-DFW)

I have also seen them on PHL-DEN and they usually run PHL-MBJ in the fall and spring.

Quoting Oak522 (Reply 14):
When they introduced the F makeover in April all I heard from the F flight attendants on Shuttle is that they had no idea where all of the china and food would go in the forward galley on those longer flights. I haven't had a long enough flight to try out the updated service, but I imagine it would be tight quarters for the crew. That said, I love E-190--either in F or Y--as the seats in both cabins are huge. The only real problem is the stupidly small port overhead compartment in F.

Flights on the E190 and 73X recieve a modified meal service. I don't think there is glassware on these flights.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 1):
The issue is just that mainline 100-seater economics are almost impossible.

Tell that to AC  


User currently offlineAdam727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3534 times:

There is no glassware on any 737 or e 190 flts do to no space.

User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5671 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 15):

How are they going to replace a 733 with a 321? Thats a difference of about 60 seats!

It's a shuffle. A320s and A319s will replace the flying on the current West 733 routes, with the A321s picking up the flying in high-demand markets currently operated by A320s.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 16):
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 1):
The issue is just that mainline 100-seater economics are almost impossible.

Tell that to AC

The economics of aviation in Canada and the US are totally different. For example, AC sees less competion than US sees.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 18):
It's a shuffle. A320s and A319s will replace the flying on the current West 733 routes, with the A321s picking up the flying in high-demand markets currently operated by A320s.

What will replace the 734s East wise? I notice these birds are getting refurbished. Last time I was on one, they not only had the new leather seating, but also the new "swoosh" style bulkeads. Me thinks the 734 will be around longer than expected.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
The economics of aviation in Canada and the US are totally different. For example, AC sees less competion than US sees.

Hence the wink   I understand the economics are vastly different. Thanks for the info though!


User currently offlinemsypi7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
What will replace the 734s East wise? I notice these birds are getting refurbished. Last time I was on one, they not only had the new leather seating, but also the new "swoosh" style bulkeads. Me thinks the 734 will be around longer than expected.

Again off the top of my head the A321's will replace the 734's on a 1 to 1 basis. The recent 321 deliveries were replacing 733's and then shuffling the 319/320's to match capacity to demand on other routes. The 734's will remain in the fleet longer than originally planned, but they are definitely on the way out. When US pushed back their delivery schedule form Airbus so as to reduce capital outlays when oil was at $150/bbl US slowed the retirement rate of all the 737's. The 734's IIRC will be the last of the 737's to exit the fleet.

MD


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 684 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1922 times:
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Isn't the E190 very fuel efficient? I always thought it was


avi8
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