The CP Air DC-8-55CF above was their only combi. It mostly operated in all-passenger configuration but for a couple of years around 1972-73 it did operate in combi configuration. It made one round trip a week YVR-HND-HKG and on the other days it operated YYZ-YEG-YVR-YEG-YYZ and connected to the other Tokyo/Hong Kong flights. I remember it operated with 69 economy seats when in combi configuration. A little later it was converted to all-cargo configuration and continued the once-weekly YVR-HND-HKG service. That didn't last very long and it was then converted back to all-passenger configuration when the 747-200s arrived as they then no longer needed the extra cargo capacity to Asia.
Due to traffic rights and frequency restrictions in the bilaterals, when it operated to HND and HKG in combi configuration it could only carry passengers YVR-HKG, but not YVR-HND which was restricted to 4 flights a week (the combi was the 5th). And although CP had 5th freedom rights on 3 flights a week HND-HKG (3 of the 4 passenger flights to HND continued to HKG and one turned around at HND), they couldn't carry 5th freedom traffic HND-HKG on the combi. Cargo wasn't restricted.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2895 times:
AC operated either 5 or 6 DC-8-54Fs starting early 1963 IIRC. Several were in combi mode (I flew on them all I think). original seating was 99Y, again IIRC. Possibly 111Y.
Mostly used domestically but there were services to LHR. I believe the a/c that flew into the mud at LHR in Nov 1963 was a combi. I cannot recall if any other European destinations were served. I would guess if there were it would have been DUS (AC's German destination until late 1960s when it moved to FRA).
As you can see from this picture, the fwd cabin's window shades are pulled down, which is a tell-tale sign that this section is not occupied by passengers, but it could also be coincidence. I do have a safety card of a TAP 707 that had a schematic of a combi config for an evacuation
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 6057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2698 times:
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2): Several were in combi mode (I flew on them all I think). original seating was 99Y, again IIRC. Possibly 111Y.
The AC/TC DC-8-54Fs were in the following configurations:
2 Cargo Pallets + 135Y Pax
4 Cargo Pallets + 117Y Pax
6 Cargo Pallets + 87 Y Pax
7 Cargo Pallets + 69 Y Pax
12 Cargo Pallets with the rear galley not removed
13 Cargo Pallets with the rear galley removed.
TCA/Air Canada's DC-8-54Fs never carried First Class passengers, as they were not equipped with a forward galley, lavs, bar nor lounge.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
haynflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2579 times:
I can remember as a little kid, flying Pan Am to/from Hawaii to Guam on combi 707's. I think they were heading off to Japan? And unlike the NW picture above, I distinctly remember boarding through the forward door and walking past the pallets to the passenger compartment in the rear.
I also remember the smell of Nehi grape soda in the air, only to find out many years later that the smell was of insect fumigant.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
AY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 514 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2569 times:
Finnair flew the DC8-62CF, I believe from mid 60's until late 80's. When I worked for them at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, they flew the New York route, a couple of times a week HEL-CPH-AMS-JFK, and the rest of the time HEL-AMS-JFK. This was until 1975, when the DC10-30 took over on the route.
There were various configurations. Totally from memory, these were the most common ones we saw come through AMS:
5 pallets/103Y seats
8 pallets/62Y seats
3 pallets/12F 135Y seats
I don't ever recall seeing an all passenger cabin with F and Y. In all passenger configuration, just Y seats. This configuration was used on charter flights as well. I flew on them from HEL to Malaga and Rhodes, but they used those planes all over, often to North America.
The DC8-62CF was actually quite a sensation, when it went through AMS. There was at least one gate, I believe in C concourse at the time, which could accomodate the aircraft when it pulled in parallel to the terminal, and the passenger jetway was attached to the rear door. It could be maneuvered so that there was still enough space between the aircraft and the terminal building to operate the pallet loaders. There was always a crowd of people watching the cargo being loaded and unloaded.
The Finnair DC8-62 was one of the most beautiful looking aircraft I have seen.
The 62Y configuration was cozy. At the front of all the passenger cabins, in combi configuration, was a small door about 2 feet wide at the left side of the cabin. This was for access to the cockpit via a very narrow passage down the left of the plane between the cargo pallets and the wall. It was narrow enough that one had to walk almost sideways.
Just as another note: the Super Caravelle operated by Finnair also had a removable cargo area just after the front passenger door, between the front galley and the First Class cabin. When the cargo area was installed, on either side of the aisle, the cargo was secured with nets and hidden by orange curtains. It was about 4-5 feet wide. We mainly used it on the flight AY846 AMS-GOT-HEL. There were a large cargo of flowers all the time for AMS-GOT, and the long narrow boxes fit in those compartments on their ends. The Caravelle was also very tail heavy, and the flowers were very light, so they didn't provide much ballast up front.
When the cargo area was installed, the cabin held 12F/67Y pax. Without the cargo area, 12F/72Y pax. Seating was 5 abreast, so we lost only one row of seats with the cargo area installed.
If the pax load was light, there was often a seating restriction during takeoff and landing, for weight and balance purposes. All passengers had to sit in the first seven rows.
I know it was not really a combi but thought this might be of interest.
Those really were the days, and I would not change my experiences and the wonderful people I met during those times for anything!
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
n901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 533 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2444 times:
Western flew a few 707-347C in the Combi role. Remember it well. In trans Pac Hawaiian flew 2 ( I think 2 ) DC-8-62CF, and Air Marshall Islands flew a Combi 62 DC-8, That Hawaiian took care of ( And my Brother swears it was haunted) .
When the Boeing 707 was introduced the big cargo holds increased the amount of cargo carried on the overseas services. Towards the end of the 1960’s Boeing 707 Combi model aircraft were ordered, a large cargo door was fitted at the left front of the cabin and the cargo floor strengthened to carry the cargo pallets, the floors had rollers to facilitate moving the pallets. The airline also ordered three Boeing 727QC airliners, the QC stood for Quick Change, the cabin interior could be changed from an all cargo to an all passenger configuration in less than 30 minutes. The seats and mid cabin galley were secured onto pallets that could be rolled out of the large cargo door at the front cabin, the airliner carried passengers by day and cargo at night. Both the 707 and 727 aircraft were used in the full passenger, mixed operation where the front half of the cabin carried cargo and rear half passengers and in a full cargo configuration.
If you look very closely at this photo you can see the front cargo door, the AFRICAN of the titles is on the door.