Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Who Flew Combi 707/DC-8s?  
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

On intercontinental routes, I mean, not to Alaska or someplace. Who flew main deck cargo on passenger 707s and DC-8s?

In June 1963 Aviation Week said NW would be getting 707s with the (forward?) main deck split longitudinally, with cargo alongside the first class seats. Did that ever happen? Did anyone else do that?

Then in 1975 SAA's weekly 707 JNB-GIG-JFK says "Combination service". Zat mean main deck cargo?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
On intercontinental routes, I mean, not to Alaska or someplace. Who flew main deck cargo on passenger 707s and DC-8s?

Northwest and CP Air are two that come to mind.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Marmet



The CP Air DC-8-55CF above was their only combi. It mostly operated in all-passenger configuration but for a couple of years around 1972-73 it did operate in combi configuration. It made one round trip a week YVR-HND-HKG and on the other days it operated YYZ-YEG-YVR-YEG-YYZ and connected to the other Tokyo/Hong Kong flights. I remember it operated with 69 economy seats when in combi configuration. A little later it was converted to all-cargo configuration and continued the once-weekly YVR-HND-HKG service. That didn't last very long and it was then converted back to all-passenger configuration when the 747-200s arrived as they then no longer needed the extra cargo capacity to Asia.

Due to traffic rights and frequency restrictions in the bilaterals, when it operated to HND and HKG in combi configuration it could only carry passengers YVR-HKG, but not YVR-HND which was restricted to 4 flights a week (the combi was the 5th). And although CP had 5th freedom rights on 3 flights a week HND-HKG (3 of the 4 passenger flights to HND continued to HKG and one turned around at HND), they couldn't carry 5th freedom traffic HND-HKG on the combi. Cargo wasn't restricted.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

AC operated either 5 or 6 DC-8-54Fs starting early 1963 IIRC. Several were in combi mode (I flew on them all I think). original seating was 99Y, again IIRC. Possibly 111Y.

Mostly used domestically but there were services to LHR. I believe the a/c that flew into the mud at LHR in Nov 1963 was a combi. I cannot recall if any other European destinations were served. I would guess if there were it would have been DUS (AC's German destination until late 1960s when it moved to FRA).



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
AC operated either 5 or 6 DC-8-54Fs starting early 1963 IIRC.

AC took delivery of 8 combis between 1963 and 1966, including the first one built (AC, then TCA, was the launch customer). The combis were FIN #s 812 through 819 (CF-TJL through CF-TJS).

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I believe the a/c that flew into the mud at LHR in Nov 1963 was a combi.

Correct, the "cabbage patch" DC-8 was FIN 813, CF-TJM. Unfortunately, after being rebuilt following the LHR event, it crashed near YOW on a training flight in 1967, killing the 3 crew.

The DC-8 that crashed soon after takeoff from YUL, killing all 118 aboard, just 3 weeks after the LHR overrun accident, was also a combi (FIN 814, CF-TJN).


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2326 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

TAP did:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke


As you can see from this picture, the fwd cabin's window shades are pulled down, which is a tell-tale sign that this section is not occupied by passengers, but it could also be coincidence. I do have a safety card of a TAP 707 that had a schematic of a combi config for an evacuation



Made from jets!
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
Several were in combi mode (I flew on them all I think). original seating was 99Y, again IIRC. Possibly 111Y.

The AC/TC DC-8-54Fs were in the following configurations:
2 Cargo Pallets + 135Y Pax
4 Cargo Pallets + 117Y Pax
6 Cargo Pallets + 87 Y Pax
7 Cargo Pallets + 69 Y Pax
12 Cargo Pallets with the rear galley not removed
13 Cargo Pallets with the rear galley removed.

TCA/Air Canada's DC-8-54Fs never carried First Class passengers, as they were not equipped with a forward galley, lavs, bar nor lounge.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12740 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
Northwest and CP Air are two that come to mind.
Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 4):
TAP did:

Since this is an aviation/photo web site, I'd like to complement you both on the selections of photos.

I wasn't aware of how nice the liveries were on the DC8s/707s.

I particularly like the NW one.

It reminds me of the lovely silver they had on their A330s.

Damn, I miss NW

I did some stopovers in MSP in the early 90s and it was a visual orgasm of red tailed three holers!  



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3212 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
On intercontinental routes, I mean, not to Alaska or someplace. Who flew main deck cargo on passenger 707s and DC-8s?

ATI until very recently, if not still today...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Szemberski



Why the discriminator on Alaska though? Any DC-8 or 707 with a meaningful payload between Asia and N America has stopped there over the past 50 years



FLYi
User currently offlinebrushpilot From France, joined Mar 2010, 85 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2109 times:

I flew many times the SABENA 707 Combi round trip Bruxelles - Nairobi - Kigali - Entebbe.

Regards.


User currently offlinehaynflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2079 times:

I can remember as a little kid, flying Pan Am to/from Hawaii to Guam on combi 707's. I think they were heading off to Japan? And unlike the NW picture above, I distinctly remember boarding through the forward door and walking past the pallets to the passenger compartment in the rear.

I also remember the smell of Nehi grape soda in the air, only to find out many years later that the smell was of insect fumigant.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2069 times:

Finnair flew the DC8-62CF, I believe from mid 60's until late 80's. When I worked for them at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, they flew the New York route, a couple of times a week HEL-CPH-AMS-JFK, and the rest of the time HEL-AMS-JFK. This was until 1975, when the DC10-30 took over on the route.
There were various configurations. Totally from memory, these were the most common ones we saw come through AMS:
5 pallets/103Y seats
8 pallets/62Y seats
3 pallets/12F 135Y seats
188Y seats
I don't ever recall seeing an all passenger cabin with F and Y. In all passenger configuration, just Y seats. This configuration was used on charter flights as well. I flew on them from HEL to Malaga and Rhodes, but they used those planes all over, often to North America.
The DC8-62CF was actually quite a sensation, when it went through AMS. There was at least one gate, I believe in C concourse at the time, which could accomodate the aircraft when it pulled in parallel to the terminal, and the passenger jetway was attached to the rear door. It could be maneuvered so that there was still enough space between the aircraft and the terminal building to operate the pallet loaders. There was always a crowd of people watching the cargo being loaded and unloaded.
The Finnair DC8-62 was one of the most beautiful looking aircraft I have seen.
The 62Y configuration was cozy. At the front of all the passenger cabins, in combi configuration, was a small door about 2 feet wide at the left side of the cabin. This was for access to the cockpit via a very narrow passage down the left of the plane between the cargo pallets and the wall. It was narrow enough that one had to walk almost sideways.

Just as another note: the Super Caravelle operated by Finnair also had a removable cargo area just after the front passenger door, between the front galley and the First Class cabin. When the cargo area was installed, on either side of the aisle, the cargo was secured with nets and hidden by orange curtains. It was about 4-5 feet wide. We mainly used it on the flight AY846 AMS-GOT-HEL. There were a large cargo of flowers all the time for AMS-GOT, and the long narrow boxes fit in those compartments on their ends. The Caravelle was also very tail heavy, and the flowers were very light, so they didn't provide much ballast up front.
When the cargo area was installed, the cabin held 12F/67Y pax. Without the cargo area, 12F/72Y pax. Seating was 5 abreast, so we lost only one row of seats with the cargo area installed.
If the pax load was light, there was often a seating restriction during takeoff and landing, for weight and balance purposes. All passengers had to sit in the first seven rows.
I know it was not really a combi but thought this might be of interest.
Those really were the days, and I would not change my experiences and the wonderful people I met during those times for anything!
Cheers
Carl



The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4643 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2039 times:

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
On intercontinental routes, I mean, not to Alaska or someplace. Who flew main deck cargo on passenger 707s and DC-8s?

Qantas did - the Boeing 707-338C.

The fleet list, along with a history for each airframe is on this web site -

http://www.707.adastron.com/qantas/qf338-shortlist.htm

Enjoy!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinen901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Western flew a few 707-347C in the Combi role. Remember it well. In trans Pac Hawaiian flew 2 ( I think 2 ) DC-8-62CF, and Air Marshall Islands flew a Combi 62 DC-8, That Hawaiian took care of ( And my Brother swears it was haunted) .

User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

707: Uganda Airlines
DC8: Air Marshall Islands


User currently offlineandz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1607 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

SAA started 707 Combi service in April 1972, the aircraft was configured for up to 3 main deck pallets and 105 passengers.

from http://www.saamuseum.co.za/saa-history.html

When the Boeing 707 was introduced the big cargo holds increased the amount of cargo carried on the overseas services. Towards the end of the 1960’s Boeing 707 Combi model aircraft were ordered, a large cargo door was fitted at the left front of the cabin and the cargo floor strengthened to carry the cargo pallets, the floors had rollers to facilitate moving the pallets. The airline also ordered three Boeing 727QC airliners, the QC stood for Quick Change, the cabin interior could be changed from an all cargo to an all passenger configuration in less than 30 minutes. The seats and mid cabin galley were secured onto pallets that could be rolled out of the large cargo door at the front cabin, the airliner carried passengers by day and cargo at night. Both the 707 and 727 aircraft were used in the full passenger, mixed operation where the front half of the cabin carried cargo and rear half passengers and in a full cargo configuration.

If you look very closely at this photo you can see the front cargo door, the AFRICAN of the titles is on the door.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vito Cedrini



[Edited 2011-07-08 23:30:52]


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Who Flew DC-3s Out Of Idlewild/JFK? posted Thu Jan 2 2003 18:59:36 by Timz
707 & DC-8 On Intra-European Flights? posted Mon Apr 12 2010 01:22:26 by faro
Two ATI DC-8s At Ksfb posted Sun Mar 28 2010 07:13:01 by Plainplane
In-Flight Entertainment On The 707/DC-8 posted Tue Mar 23 2010 02:05:56 by Jackbr
When Did EIA Retire Their DC-8s posted Thu Feb 18 2010 16:05:25 by 747400sp
Eastern Air Lines "Stretch" DC-8s? posted Sun Aug 23 2009 20:31:26 by Tango-Bravo
Pan Am 707/DC-8 Routes? posted Sat Apr 18 2009 16:53:24 by Tango-Bravo
Help Needed Who Flew Into St.Lucia Feb 1972 posted Sat Jan 3 2009 12:09:37 by THVGJP
What Happened To The Lufthansa Cargo Dc 8s posted Fri Dec 12 2008 08:24:09 by Columba
Who Flew DTW-SEA Nonstop In Early 80's? posted Tue Aug 19 2008 08:09:48 by Thestooges