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AF Passengers Told To Take Out Their Trash!  
User currently offlineSandgroper From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 73 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13452 times:

Lots of future competition from Ryanair and EasyJet is forcing Air France to ask the paying passenger to take out their TRASH!

http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/tra...ce-flyers-told-20110708-1h5jj.html


Sandgroper
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesteffenbn From Denmark, joined Apr 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13441 times:

Quoting Sandgroper (Thread starter):

Lots of future competition from Ryanair and EasyJet is forcing Air France to ask the paying passenger to take out their TRASH!

Well that should not be a problem, every passenger should take out their trash, no matter what airline. It's common sense to everybody to clean after themselves! I can't see the big issue here! Or am I mistaken? As for myself i ALWAYS take my trash with me!

-Steffen Nielsen, Denmark



A330, A319, 737,738,752,763,763ER,764ER,777-200LR
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13410 times:

Quoting Sandgroper (Thread starter):
Lots of future competition from Ryanair and EasyJet is forcing Air France to ask the paying passenger to take out their TRASH!

I personally see no problem regarding it.....the passenger is paying for transportation and I don't feel it's unreasonable not to leave the seat area looking like a trash dump. Besides it would be request, and interesting in the respect of courtesy obtained.


User currently offlinePart147 From Ireland, joined Dec 2008, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13409 times:

What's the problem with doing this? Doesn't everyone 'tidy up' after themselves?

Must be a slow news day...



It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9096 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13263 times:

I can tell you what the problem is. First of all, it has been custom that the airline pays for the cleaning crew that tidies up the aircraft after each flight.

The real problem is, if passengers are asked to take their trash out (are there trash bins at the exit?) that means there will be no cleaning crew gpoing through the aircraft and clean armrests, tables etc. Now, how sure can you be that this will be done during the night stop?

This can be a real hygienic problem and that is not acceptable.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinesteffenbn From Denmark, joined Apr 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13163 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
This can be a real hygienic problem and that is not acceptable.

Well, the Cleaning crew will still go through the aircraft and clean, but if all passengers take out there trash they can maybe save like 20 mins. (even more on the bigger A/C) of cleaning, and with the thousand of flights operated by AF yearly , that will eventually add up to a lot of cost-savings at AF .

-Steffen Nielsen, Denmark



A330, A319, 737,738,752,763,763ER,764ER,777-200LR
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9096 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13107 times:

... or save in the number of cleaning crew. But your argument still does not make sense because in the time it takes to turn an aircraft around, any cleaning can be done, including taking the trash out

The cost saving is only if cleaning is cut during cycles and may be done once a day only, or less.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13043 times:

Quoting Sandgroper (Thread starter):

Do not see a problem with it - if anything, more pax should be encouraged to do this. Speed up the cleaning process and like others say, why leave the seat like a tip? Pax should take responsibility for the mess they leave behind... leave the seat as you found it.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13030 times:

... Why doesn't AF recruit crews under new terms & conditions for their operations in the regions... And if they end up serving drinks and a chocolat bar, just hand them small platic bags, à la British Airways and collect them before the flight lands...


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9096 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12806 times:

Simple answer - because the unions would not let them and French unions go on strike whenever they want..

It is a very arrogant attitude to say, non, we are not clearing the aircraft, let the passengers do it instead. I know that FAs are not servants and their main job is maintain safety in the cabin but the least they could do is walk with a plastic bag through the aisle and collect the trash. I am sure the union would require AF to provide free gloves.

I just imagine the elderly person or the mom with 2 kids juggling with carry on and then they are barked at by a FA - "Hey, you forgot your trash, get back to your seat and pick it up will ya".

Mon dieu.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12759 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
The real problem is, if passengers are asked to take their trash out (are there trash bins at the exit?) that means there will be no cleaning crew gpoing through the aircraft and clean armrests, tables etc. Now, how sure can you be that this will be done during the night stop?

This can be a real hygienic problem and that is not acceptable.

Where does it indicate that there will be no cleaning crew? Now, how can it be a real hygienic problem and not acceptable? How difficult is it for anyone to take their belongings with them.......indeed, by your logic, it must surely be more of a hygienic problem leaving it for others to clean up. Why is then acceptable that other's should have to clean your hygienic problem?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
It is a very arrogant attitude to say, non, we are not clearing the aircraft, let the passengers do it instead.

Personally, I would say it's sheer arrogance to demand others clean up one's one mess.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
"Hey, you forgot your trash, get back to your seat and pick it up will ya".

I think we are all quite aware that isn't going to be the outcome.


User currently offlinehorstroad From Germany, joined Apr 2010, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12722 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
I just imagine the elderly person or the mom with 2 kids juggling with carry on and then they are barked at by a FA - "Hey, you forgot your trash, get back to your seat and pick it up will ya".

well, on trains, buses, their own car etc they also manage to remove their trash. why not on aircraft?
have you ever seen the cabin after a long haul flight? it looks like a battlefield.
it´s not much trash per person as FAs collect drinking cups etc regularly. so normally it is only what was left during approach and what has been dropped under the seats. shouldn´t be too much to handle for the single passenger. but when you add it up for 300 or even more than 500 pax you can imagine what mess it is when everybody just leaves their junk.


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12216 times:

On many flights in the USA a flight attendant walks down the aisle during approach and an announcement is made asking passengers to put their trash in the trash bag the flight attendant is carrying. Is it too hard to have AF adopt a similar policy?

OHOH, would I get a discount if I help washing the outside of the plane?   


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9096 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11974 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 10):
Where does it indicate that there will be no cleaning crew?

Pure logic, if you have a cleaning crew they can pick up mthe old newspapers (and that's about it) as well. Cups and glasses are collected before landing by the FAs anyhow, at least the airlines I fly with. By reading the article I understand that AF is cutting the usual cleaning between flights and have asked the FAs to collct Ryanair style with a plastic bag. AF crew has obviously refused that as they are flight attendants and no cleaning crew, so pax have to do the job.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 10):
Personally, I would say it's sheer arrogance to demand others clean up one's one mess.

No, it's not arrogant as you have paid for the service. I have no problem with someone coming through the aisle and asking to hand over the rubbish. By your logic it would be arrogant to leave a restaurant without cleaning up the mess you have left on the table. I've got news for you, you paid them already to do that.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 10):
Why is then acceptable that other's should have to clean your hygienic problem?

I do not have a hygenic problem. I said that there will be a hygenic problem if cleaning is cut down. Is English your native tongue?

Quoting horstroad (Reply 11):
well, on trains, buses, their own car etc they also manage to remove their trash.

There is a distinction between public transport and private cars. Most people keep their cars tidy. On trains, at leeast deutsche Bahn, I leave newspapers at my seat, like anyone else. For other items they have trash bins and there is also a cleaner coming through the train. On buses there are trash bins.

Now, I have asked already, where do people put the trash when they are asked to take it along? Will AF remove a row and put trash bins in - sorted by paper, plastic waste and the rest oinclduing food and used diapers?

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
On many flights in the USA a flight attendant walks down the aisle during approach

Exactly, and I remember a flight from ATL to COS sometime around the 90s on the long gone airline with the advertising. That was the first time I saw something like that. No problem., The problem was, that I had all these 3 or 4 hjours the impression that someone vomitted on exactly the seat I was sitting on or maybe the ones next to me on an earlier flight. The whole aircraft was filthy.

Like I said, no problem with trash collecting by the FA, but asking the pax to clean up means that the next pax finds a filthy seat. The old newspapers might have been taken out but the table is not wiped and neither are the armsrests.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 935 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11946 times:

The article mentions that AF cabin crew refuse cleaning duties. I just don't understand what the big deal is about having cabin crew clean aircraft. A number of staff actually pick up trash, if it isn't their main job:

- Southwest flight attendants have some cleaning duties between flights
- All flight attendants pick up trash on tray tables at the end of meal and beverage services (does it make a difference if the trash is on the floor at the end of the flight instead of the tray table while in flight?)
- Cross-utilized customer service agents at stations manned by regional carriers clean RON aircraft
- Some cabin crew at various carriers clean toilets while in flight

It is very irritating on long-haul flights to watch the trash pile up while the flight attendants sit back and socialize. I don't see why carriers do not introduce 1-2 "inflight service assistants" on long-haul flights that can implement safety procedures but are responsible for cleaning and stocking instead of serving passengers meals and beverages. These people could also be used to clean toilets on an hourly basis. Not the best job in the world, but it would be one of the most appreciated.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3946 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11831 times:

Who says that these passengers will be "Air France" passengers? I doubt that Air France will launch a LCC-style operation under its own brand name as it would dilute their brand. All other full service carriers that have established LCC subsidiaries did use a new brand with no obvious link - e.g. Jetstar (Qantas), go (British Airways) oder Germanwings (Lufthansa).

User currently offlineMNMncrcnwjr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11652 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
nd I don't feel it's unreasonable not to leave the seat area looking like a trash dump.

It always amazes me of how people can trash an airplane on an hour hop .... What really gals me are those in FC at the bulk head that feel the need to place their foot, shoes and all ON the bulk head wall... Would these barbarians do this at home?

Some how I long for the old days when people actually dressed in their "Sunday best" to FLY ... Thanks to AA in '92 it's turned into a Greyhound crowd ..



CV340/580DC3DC9super80MD88/90DC10717273747576777A319/20CRJ2/7/9F27AVROJET31CITAT5/7/XSAAB340YS11Dash8E135/45/75
User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11458 times:

Sounds to me that they want the crew to clean/tidy the cabin during turn arounds not collect rubbish during flight.

= Collecting rubbish from seatbacks
= Bringing safety card to front
= Vacuuming
= Crossing seatbelts etc

Like what the crew do on other discount carriers allowing for shorter turn arounds. The AC usually gets a deep clean by a cleaning crew once the AC has finished for the day.



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7401 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11355 times:

I don't know the source of this article but I can tell you that all this is complete bullsh*t.
There is no plan at AF to ask passengers to "clean" the plane by taking out their trash ... even if, according to me, it would make sense.
It would also mean that people should get more education ... when you see the state of "devastation" of the cabins after certain flights ...

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
Why doesn't AF recruit crews under new terms & conditions for their operations in the regions...

Because this is not legal in France.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
Pure logic, if you have a cleaning crew they can pick up mthe old newspapers

That's not logic at all, it's pure assumption to support a viewpoint because surely logic would also indicate that, in the absence of specifically stating no cleaning crew would be utilised, trash could be collected in bags and anything still left at touchdown is removed by the passenger.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
No, it's not arrogant as you have paid for the service

No, you have paid for transportation, not a cleaning service. Actually F/A's are on board in a safety role and to provide comfort during a flight. They are not employed, or there as waiting staff and trash collectors.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):

I do not have a hygenic problem. I said that there will be a hygenic problem if cleaning is cut down. Is English your native tongue?

Absolutely it is my native tongue so of what relevance is that? I never stated you have a hygenic problem....I used the term 'you' in the general sense of people and I meant you specifically I would clearly have indicated that. To explain it better, I am trying to ascertain how you see it as a hygienic problem when passengers are asked to remove their own trash, but seemingly it is not a hygienic problem to expect F/A's to clean up after perhaps 100-200 strangers.


Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
Like I said, no problem with trash collecting by the FA, but asking the pax to clean up means that the next pax finds a filthy seat

No, not really applicable because on the many airlines which collect trash prior to landing, there is still a substantial amount left at landing (pax who have not finished with whatever).......what is difficult, or unreasonable, to expect pax to take that with them?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
There is a distinction between public transport and private cars. Most people keep their cars tidy.

Again, not really. For general purposes airlines are public transport. As you correctly say, most people generally keep their cars tidy......thus, if one clears their mess/trash out of their car why would it be expected as normal to leave an aircraft filthy? And no, not all bus's everywhere are fitted with trash cans.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
but asking the pax to clean up means that the next pax finds a filthy seat. The old newspapers might have been taken out but the table is not wiped and neither are the armsrests.

No, and why should it? There is no indication at all that nothing will be cleaned/wiped.......passengers are merely being asked to remove their trash belongings. I see nowhere where they are being asked to clean tables and/or armrests. Again, you are merely assuming this.

Quoting MNMncrcnwjr (Reply 16):
It always amazes me of how people can trash an airplane on an hour hop .... What really gals me are those in FC at the bulk head that feel the need to place their foot, shoes and all ON the bulk head wall... Would these barbarians do this at home?
Quoting Marara (Reply 17):
Sounds to me that they want the crew to clean/tidy the cabin during turn arounds not collect rubbish during flight.

= Collecting rubbish from seatbacks
= Bringing safety card to front
= Vacuuming
= Crossing seatbelts etc

Like what the crew do on other discount carriers allowing for shorter turn arounds. The AC usually gets a deep clean by a cleaning crew once the AC has finished for the day.

   exactly indeed, and I fail to see why there seems to be a type of consensus here that see's pax leaving their area filthy and demanding others clean it is acceptable behaviour. I can't fathom that at all. How hard is it to remove what you have used, or how is it unreasonable to expect it?


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
On many flights in the USA a flight attendant walks down the aisle during approach and an announcement is made asking passengers to put their trash in the trash bag the flight attendant is carrying. Is it too hard to have AF adopt a similar policy?

Its all flights in the USA. I can't think of one flight were there was no announcement before landing saying "the flight attendants will be coming through the cabin to do a final safety check, and to collect any remaining service items you may have. We will also be happy to take any items such as magazines or newspapers that you do not wish to take off the aircraft with you..".

I thought they did this worldwide..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinebrushpilot From France, joined Mar 2010, 85 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10968 times:

Anyway the Air France fleet looks so durty, the inside trash dump is not a problem...

Regards


User currently offlinecgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10755 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 20):
to collect any remaining service items you may have

This is one of my biggest pet peeves about "airline-speak"....what exactly is a service item?
What is sooooo horrible about using the word trash/garbage/rubbish? Would it be offensive to anyone if the announcement was "we will be passing by to collect anything you want to throw away."?



A330 man.
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10713 times:

Hey, I can do that. I can also do windows and floors. But now I will ask Ryanair like cheap fares...

I believe that most people will clean after themselves, especially when reminded to do so (as when FA walks the aisles with plastic bags to collect trash and recyclables) but it won't ever be a 100% compliance. ANd therein lies the real problem, it is hard to enforce.


User currently offlineSMPPLNOHoW2FLY From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10591 times:

This reminds me of the time when I was a flight attendant. I worked for a regional airlline and we were the ones to make the airplane look pretty. I remember a passenger with a bottle and a news paper in his seat pocket and while doing a walk through I asked if he wished to throw anything, he said no. During an electronic device compliance check I noticed the items were in the same exact place, I once again asked and he said "no". During my final approach check I asked the last time, noticing that they STILL were untouched, he said once again "no".

During deplaning I wished my passengers good bye, and gave thanks. Noticing the gentleman as he walked out, and paying particular notice to the fact he didn't have his bottle and newspaper.

Now this being day 4 of 4 over Christmas, I kind of snapped. After we finished deplaning I quickly went to his row, took out the news paper and bottle and ran to the terminal to find the man. When I did I said "sir I believe you forgot this on board" and I handed him the trash...Seriously people the airline shouldn't be picking up after you.



The beginning is the end is the beginning
25 Post contains images cschleic : Maybe AF should have passengers wash the planes. They'd be a lot cleaner!
26 Spunker : Why would it be a hygienic problem since you are only cleaning up your trash.
27 Splitterz : Maybe if some passengers had a little common courtesy and were not raised in a barn this would not be an issue.
28 USAirALB : Cups, glases, snack boxes, snack bags, newspapers etc..
29 EddieDude : I consider myself a clean and polite person. However, I see it this way: if the airline serves me a coffee in a styrofoam cup or a soft drink in a pla
30 PanHAM : Are we doing a Monthy Python here? No, that parrot just moved, no it did not, yes it did. Listen, I am paying for transportation in aircraft, trains
31 Post contains images cgnnrw : which equals: trash/garbage/rubbish or "anything" you want to throw away.
32 virginblue4 : Yes it is complete arrogance, like others have said you pay for the service of getting from A to B. That's utterly ridiculous. Cleaning toilets is co
33 AirNZ : Sorry, but are you still saying that it is unreasonable to expect anyone (read: aircraft passengers) to have the courtesy to clear up after themselve
34 goblin211 : I think the F/As should still come around with the trash as they do now. I would never leave my trash if the F/As come and get it. However, when getti
35 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Funny story. I'm reminded of a UAX flight I was on last Tuesday evening flying YYC-ORD. There were at least ten international families -- obviously f
36 A340600 : Absolutely outrageous and largely pointless. Like it or not people will leave rubbish behind as well as crumbs etc on the floor. I'd rather not sit wi
37 ltbewr : From what I can figure out from the article, this policy is mainly as to intra-Europe flights, usually short flights with quick turnarounds and limite
38 Style : Your whole argument went out the door with that paragraph. Airlines are usually singled out for stuff of this nature. Its the norm in other industrie
39 FlyboyOz : The information isn't clear and there's something missing in this information. Before descending, I have seen most flight attendants wearing a pair of
40 PanHAM : I think some here should read the article in the opening post again. Shrit summary. AF is planning to start up a low cost service from some provincial
41 pylon101 : It should be defined what "trash" means, in the first instance. If it is peanuts packing or soda cans or napkins or plastic cups - all this can be eas
42 TheCommodore : How about this for a deal? If Air France will start washing their aircraft, I'll take out my rubbish!
43 AeroVega : I doubt those people have a bulk head wall at home.
44 AF Cabin Crew : Ia Orana all, I believe I have to chime in a little as this is utter BS... I have been working for AF for over 14 years, 15 soon. I have flown countle
45 type-rated : I still like it when just before landing a F/A walks down the aisle holding open a plastic trash bag. You just dump your garbage in there. All they ha
46 GT4EZY : There is a half way compromise here. First of all, the state some passengers seem to leave their seat area in is disgusting. The odd bit of mess is ac
47 type-rated : What I don't like (and I am sure FA's hate) is when some family with little kids bring on cookies for their kids to munch on during the flight. Those
48 Pihero : Absolute gem of a thread : An Australian magazine does a complete mess of a write up about the new AF "province project", all with the typical bias an
49 PanHAM : Great show, Pihero, you take my remarks out of context and then put your comments underneath. There was a time way back in another Germany were that
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