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Rumour: DL To Launch MIA To BCN And GRU  
User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 380 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12710 times:
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I just heard the news yesterday from a longtime DL employee. Nothing confirmed yet. But I think this is great news that they want to compete with AA in its crown jewel route.

Will GRU cannabalize the ATL route to GRU?

[Edited 2011-07-10 15:16:18]

97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

I say do it DL..!! Anything to get AA to wake up...!!! I say EZE, GIG, LIM and SCL after that.


AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12730 times:

Wait...BCL? why the heckkkk BCL?


AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineSomedayTrijet From China, joined Nov 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12706 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 2):
Wait...BCL? why the heckkkk BCL?

Is it BCN?



Someday I will fly on a Trijet
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12678 times:

BCL? Barra del Colorado, Costa Rica? Are you sure?

I can see GRU happening. There is persistent strong demand between Sao Paulo and the US, especially MIA.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12604 times:

DL in MIA... this looks like it will either be a huge success or a huge flop. Let the blood bath ensue!


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12575 times:
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Sorry, indeed it is BCN!

User currently offlineadtall From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 70 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12536 times:

There aren't any GRU-eligible frequencies to be had right now, and I doubt DL would cancel one of its three existing GRU flights to start MIA. Maybe after T3 at GRU is done and assuming DL would want to, but that wouldn't be until 2014-2015 or when Brazil says that GRU can handle more flights.

User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12509 times:
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Actually, I can see them transferring one of it's frequencies to
MIA.

[Edited 2011-07-10 15:17:31]

User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12302 times:

I would expect if they do want to take on AA/IB on BCN that AA/IB will respond without a doubt. GRU hmmm that's a tough one AA and TAM serve it very well...let's see what happens!


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12125 times:

Quoting zhiao (Reply 8):
Actually, I can see them transferring one of it's frequencies to
MIA.

That would reveal how much of a flop DTW-GRU is.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16939 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12085 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 10):
That would reveal how much of a flop DTW-GRU is.

From what I can tell DTWGRU is doing pretty well; they've increased service and fares are strong



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11991 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 10):

That would reveal how much of a flop DTW-GRU is.

If they were transfer a GRU frequency to MIA, I think it would be JFK not DTW.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11940 times:
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Quoting eastern023 (Reply 1):
I say do it DL..!! Anything to get AA to wake up...!!! I say EZE, GIG, LIM and SCL after that.

AA/LP will soon increase frequency on the MIA-LIM route to 27x weekly. AA/4M will soon increase frequency on the MIA-EZE route to 25x weekly; 4M also operates a weekly direct service between EZE and MIA. AA/LA will soon increase frequency on the SCL-MIA route to 20x weekly, (LA also operates 7 weekly direct flights between SCL and MIA). Thus there will soon be 27 weekly flights between SCL and MIA!


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11796 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 12):
If they were transfer a GRU frequency to MIA, I think it would be JFK not DTW.

Is that why JFK-GRU is being upgraded to 764?


User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11488 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
From what I can tell DTWGRU is doing pretty well; they've increased service and fares are strong

It is.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11466 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 15):

Is that why JFK-GRU is being upgraded to 764?

764s are assigned to routes moreso because of their flat-bed product not because of capacity. And if they start MIA-GRU, it would more than likely be a 764 as well.

I just gave my guess that if DL needs to move an existing freq they would move the JFK before ATL and DTW. I could be wrong, but DL should be able to generate more feed at both DTW and ATL, there is no direct competition at either airport and they could still offer direct (one-stop) from NYC via ATL or MIA.

At this point if all you have to go on is a 764, then my guess is as good as yours and since this entire thread is based on an unsubstantiated rumor* they may never have to make the decision (or they may have other plans for an additional slot - DL can be creative when it comes to the slot game).

*As to the veracity of the rumor, I could see DL trying MIA-GRU at some point and I think they could find success on it, but BCN seems like it is bit out in left field to me, why would they want to start a p2p on a OW hub-to-hub route?


User currently offlinestaralliance85 From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11444 times:

It would be a fair competition between Delta, American and TAM. DL just added MIA-LHR, which is a very popular route. So why not go for GRU which is a cash cow?

A MIA-GRU will Not affect ATL-GRU at all. ATL is DL's stronghold hub with service to basically every US city and makes a easy connection to GRU. Keep in mind that there is a large Brazilian population in Miami and they do Not want to fly all the way North to Atlanta to go South to GRU.



brad Fitzpatrick
User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11270 times:

The mention of Barcelona in the same sentence as "DL" and "MIA" should put this rumor to bed as nonsense.


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11190 times:
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Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 17):
764s are assigned to routes moreso because of their flat-bed product not because of capacity.

Interestingly, DL is currently the only carrier that does not offer a flat-bed product on flights between SCL and the U.S. However, that will soon change as DL will also deploy the B764 on the ATL-SCL route beginning in November. The carriers that operate the SCL-DFW, SCL-JFK, SCL-LAX, and SCL-MIA routes all feature a flat-bed product.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11168 times:
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If any route is confirmed above anything will be DL focus to compete with AA on their Latin American gold mine hub: MIA.

They can manage to introduce EZE, GIG, GRU and why not LIM, BOG, MEX and CCS can run an interesting bank of departures, but it seems they may need extra feed.

What is also interesting is that i can't see a potential reaction from AA !

PS: Changing the topic to " BCN "



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinetacoronte From United States of America, joined May 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11170 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 17):
BCN seems like it is bit out in left field to me, why would they want to start a p2p on a OW hub-to-hub route?

Couldn't agree more. DL could probably compete with OW on such an international hub as LHR, but competing with AA/IB to BCN seems a bit odd.


User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):

Isn't AA's flatbed only in F?



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11101 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
They can manage to introduce EZE, GIG, GRU and why not LIM, BOG, MEX and CCS can run an interesting bank of departures, but it seems they may need extra feed.

DL can't operate a MIA-CCS service. I wonder if DL will code-share with AR on their daily EZE-MIA service?

Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 22):
Isn't AA's flatbed only in F?

All of AA's B772s and B763s feature flat-beds in Business.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10942 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
All of AA's B772s and B763s feature flat-beds in Business

No way. They are lie flat seats.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
DL can't operate a MIA-CCS service. I wonder if DL will code-share with AR on their daily EZE-MIA service?

Thanks for the remark, it seems in Latin America the only markets with restrictions, for DL, are CCS and GRU.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 breaker1011 : Thanks for the info. Somehow I thought AA's J seat wasn't a 'true' lie-flat and somehow had an angle to it that's garnered some criticism versus OA l
26 zhiao : Yeah, BCN seemed quite weird, but that's what he said. This is the same person who mentioned LHR and it happened. Honestly, I think a Sub Saharan dest
27 SCL767 : That's correct, AA calls F-class seats, "Flagship Suites". AA refers to Business Class seats as, "motorized and angled lie-flat seats." LA refers to
28 adtall : Isn't US-Colombia Open Skies now?
29 SCL767 : Not as yet, (also BOG is and will always be heavily slot-controlled). Only BAQ, CTG and AXM are Open Skies airports in Colombia.
30 OB1504 : DL could very easily recreate the old UA mini-hub of the 1990s, only with much more successful results.
31 flymia : GRU would do fine its MIA-GRU its a huge market and only growing but they need the frequency which they do not have. This does not make much sense. I
32 LipeGIG : This is true, while the USD remain weak against Latin American currencies. Using Brazil as example, historically US originated passengers accounted f
33 SCL767 : And Delta will also be competing with very successful and profitable carriers like Copa Airlines, Avianca-Taca-Aerogal, LAN, TAM, and potentially AV
34 breaker1011 : If MIAGRU were to indeed not be just a rumor, I'd suspect Delta's going after the very limbo-like and not-so-profitable AA for it's share of the mark
35 gaystudpilot : Delta is not going after AA, it's going after the wallet of corporate customers. A strategy to offer the most international gateway points -- BOS, JF
36 breaker1011 : So, who are those corporate customers flying right now from MIA to GRU?
37 maiYYZ : If Pluna and TAP are flying from VCP, why there is no more airlines interested in exploring this possibility ? I know that VCP also have limitations,
38 SCL767 : Regardless of AA's situation, the competing foreign carriers on these routes would respond by increasing frequencies on certain routes if DL were to
39 phatfarmlines : True, but especially in GRU/GIG, these places are expensive for Americans despite the USD favoring the BRL.
40 breaker1011 : But if Delta's said strategy is what most say it is - tapping it's existing loyalty/corporate contract base in MIA - I'm not sure that other carriers
41 SCL767 : So you don't think that either LAN or TAM have corporate and cargo contracts, as well as loyal flyers in MIA, and their respective markets? It will b
42 breaker1011 : I said "tapping it's **existing** loyalty/corporate contract base in MIA." Will some of those passengers come from LAN or TAM? I have no clue. From A
43 LipeGIG : MIA is a big destination, but the corporate customers fly to many places in the United States, just like the same way they do with ATL, DFW, IAH, IAD
44 SCL767 : Of course some of these pax would come from LAN. LAN Airlines S.A. and LAN Perú S.A. enjoy ATI with AA. AA and LA/LP code-share on many flights. For
45 flymia : DL already offers MIA-MCO along with MIA-TPA and MIA-DCA. Miami has a huge international finance industry. Not really sure what your point is. I have
46 jonathanxxxx : Alot of this I think is not exactly DL trying to compete against AA but rather the alliances competing with each other. OneWorld being already the fir
47 LipeGIG : Not connected to Brazil. I work for this industry now for 19 years, on a key position. All we do at MIA is Felaban every two years. Investment banks
48 MCOGVADCA : As MAH4546 will be happy to tell you, there's room for a second alliance to commence significant operations at MIA. Unfortunately for DL, they're a li
49 jonathanxxxx : No I know Two alliances can hub in MIA at once. I have no doubt about it. But at this present moment OneWorld is number 1 and SkyTeam and *A are playi
50 SCL767 : And LAN is able to offer its customers connections to all of those destinations via its focus city at MIA thanks to its code-share agreement with AA,
51 tu154 : WOW. If DL starts building in MIA....how will the the third world of MIA ever pronounce DELTA?? American is easy..but Delta??
52 gaystudpilot : It will be confusing, especially with the influence of the southern drawl from Atlanta... Delter Air Lions. I imagine DL will quickly become known as
53 UALWN : Indeed. Once I went out for a quick lunch to a Mexican restaurant in San Francisco with an American colleague, and had a great burrito. He promptly a
54 Rafabozzolla : You seem to forget that business travel is not only generated by Fortune 500 companies. Many (I'd say most) import/export medium sized Brazilian comp
55 C010T3 : Slots to GIG are plentiful.
56 eastern023 : So you know...in Spanish DELTA is DELTA. If that's what slur refers to...
57 MaverickM11 : Few business are going to pay to fly a carrier that offers a far inferior network out of a major hub, unless it's at a discount.
58 Post contains images jetlanta : Since Delta is so new to the U.S.-Spain market?
59 MCOGVADCA : Route authorities are not. I wasn't very clear as I was trying to be concise; they could start destinations in Brazil ex-GIG/GRU quickly and easily.
60 C010T3 : I don't think you're following the story quite as thoroughly as you think you are. Delta could apply for MIA-GIG tomorrow and get it the next day if
61 AF086 : I think you're mixing things up. There aren't GRU frequencies (and good slots) available. As Coiote said, there are free GIG eligible frequencies and
62 MCOGVADCA : 2011 were 14 weekly frequencies to anywhere ex-GRU (which I thought were already accounted for) and 2012 are 14 ex-GRU and GIG. 2015 is OpenSkies. I
63 MCOGVADCA : If these 2011 GIG frequencies are still available, then I apologize. I was under the impression that these had been allotted by the DOT already (as I
64 AF086 : Yes, they are. No problem. It's easy to mess things up given the several different dates, numbers and kinds of frequencies available. There are Brazi
65 Post contains links C010T3 : There are currently 9 available frequencies for October 2011. These frequencies are eligible to any airport in Brazil except those in the so-called S
66 MCOGVADCA : Muito obrigado/outra vez, eu sinto muito.
67 yellowtail : Seriously..rumors have been around for awhile re DL expanding at MIA. I was at the DL MIA ticket counter twice over the last few weeks and the place w
68 EMB170 : Someone awhile back (can't remember who) predicted theat MIA-LHR would actually be a fairly decent performer for DL, and for SkyTeam in general. Speci
69 jonathanxxxx : I would think BCN, FRA, BUD and TLV are the largest TATL markets from MIA no?
70 SESGDL : BCN yes, FRA, not so much. BUD is definitely not one of the largest TATL markets from MIA. You are leaving out markets like London, Paris, and Madrid
71 jonathanxxxx : No sorry, I meant largest unserved markets not served by SkyTeam.
72 einsteinboricua : Delta is on the prowl. Will American wake up or be subjected to more competition?
73 yellowtail : Strange as it may sound having a serious competitor in MIA is the best thing for AA. Makes them more focussed, more aggressive. I have flown AA in.out
74 CODC10 : Has this even been announced?
75 MAH4546 : FRA, yes so much. MIAFRA is the third largest U.S.-FRA local market after NYCFRA and SFOFRA. Growing significantly last year after Condor's entrance,
76 yellowtail : There is a reason why LH runs the big bus on FRA-MIA
77 flymia : No its just a rumor and IMO a little bit far fetched given the two destinations given in the rumor. It may be true who knows. I think DL can be succe
78 LipeGIG : Still AA can protect themselves. In the case of Brazil, they can just apply for 4 more weekly DFW-GIG and 5 weekly MIA-GIG (second) or MIA-FOR to loc
79 eastern023 : If this comes to pass would they still operate out of Terminal H? Not a bad operation...
80 SESGDL : Whoops, I meant BUD, not so much, not FRA. How much larger is MIA-London than the other largest markets? Have you heard anything of these rumors? You
81 MAH4546 : MIALON is more than double the size of MIAPAR and actually larger than MIASAO. I believe it is in the ten busiest U.S.-Europe city pairs. No, I have
82 jonathanxxxx : Agreed BCN seems way too far-fetched unless they can get the limited UX feed from there I guess if they time it well to connect to UX's TLV flight the
83 worldliner : Can't see this happening, but if it does im not sure they could compete with both AA/IB , doubt it would last or even start.
84 odysseus9001 : The thing is, unless AA's product improves, or LAN's check-in agent service improves (I've experienced both), as a customer, I would be more interest
85 eastern023 : Agreed, not the greatest DL fan here, but since the AA product is so bad, rather fly DL MIA-SCL than AA for sure.
86 SCL767 : Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; write LAN a letter. LAN's product is extremely good; and is not comparable to DL's product to South Ameri
87 eastern023 : True indeed, LA superior than DL to SCL but DL superior to AA for sure...especially on Y. I heard that DL gave passengers free wine with dinner on Y.
88 Delimit : LAN is definitely more consistant. DL's product depends entirely on what plane you end up on. In another year or so we should start seeing a fair num
89 SCL767 : I do not know what DL's Y class service is like on the route. However, LA offers complementary beer and wine on all of their mid-haul and intercontin
90 AF086 : Not only flying the second MIA-GIG year round with more frequencies but (finally) upgrading AA904/5 to the 77E. As for DFW-GIG, does anyone know how
91 jetjack74 : Beer, wine and sake(on flights to/from Japan) are complimentary and all alcohol is FOC in Economy Comfort
92 mcdu : Would DL actually fly MIA-GRU? They did a song and dance with LAX-GRU slots for a long time and didn't operate the route. I suspect they would do the
93 goldenstate : DL did operate LAXGRU, however short lived it might have been. There is no "HND issue" because DL is in compliance with the DOT rulings subsequent to
94 Post contains images Delimit : Well, they already do. It has been resolved. DOT agreed to allow the dormancy. And i don't really see the connection between HND slots and Brazil fre
95 Post contains links SCL767 : TA also operates LIM-MIA daily (A320). LAN has made several changes to its in-flight service in the Premium Business Class cabin recently, and was ju
96 eastern023 : Is it just drinks with dinner or open bar..? Like a good international standard airline...?
97 Delimit : Beer and wine are complimentary for the flight from what I understand. I believe this was a change brought over from NW as part of the merger.
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