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WN/FL Merge: A Lot Of Flights Not Profitable  
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3001 posts, RR: 31
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16464 times:

Southwest's Gary Kelly apparently being more up-front about the direction WN's acquisition of FL will take when it comes to routes.

Quote:
Operationally, Southwest is preparing to combine the two airlines' schedules and cut some flights, chief executive Gary Kelly said in a message to employees.

"We just have a lot of flights that aren't profitable and with these fuel prices, there's obviously now way to change these economics," Kelly said.
http://www.ajc.com/business/southwest-spreads-luv-to-1012760.html

Realisitically this isn't a surprise. But prior to this, most (all?) of the official PR from WN and former-FL spokespeople was laden with comments on growth, retaining markets, etc. This is about as blunt as I've seen that in fact some chopping will happen. Now we don't know how much will be cut, nor how much of the cuts will be replaced by offsetting growth elsewhere...maybe the total capacity will be larger than WN+FL together. But it seems pretty clear from this comment that the new WN won't just be the FL map added to the old WN map.

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16450 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
But it seems pretty clear from this comment that the new WN won't just be the FL map added to the old WN map.

I'm pretty sure that was clear from the beginning, as long as one didn't buy into the typical PR garbage airlines spread before merger approval.



a.
User currently onlinebpat777 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16459 times:

I wonder if one of the Mid-Va cities (RIC, PHF, ORF) will be eliminated in the near future? FL pretty much built PHF up years ago and I'm sure they have many loyal passengers. I'm hoping RIC won't be cut or downgraded too much.

User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16398 times:

Here we go - the reality dose. Ala Delta, and eventually UA Im sure. Glory and Glam PR going into the deal, but reality bites and face saving is easy.

I wonder if some chopping is a way for WN to get out of the B717 fleet to the extent possible? I realize it would be stupid to get rid of 88 aircraft with any speed, but there are still 73G's coming into the combined fleet at a decent pace. That, combined with cuts and generally speeding turns to WN standards on Airtran's routes, could make the 717 history in 18-24 months - albeit completely stall any growth in the meantime.

[Edited 2011-07-13 21:45:59]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3001 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16398 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure that was clear from the beginning, as long as one didn't buy into the typical PR garbage airlines spread before merger approval.

Very true...it should not come as a surprise. And clearly we don't know the extent nor target of the planned cuts. But some here like to hang their hat on the sunny PR and extrapolate that it means nothing will be cut and everything will be growth. It would be a first if that were true.

Again, the ultimate sum of WN + FL might well be greater than the two individuals together. But this seems to be among the first of the less-sugary admissions that there are a lot of losers to trim. Every airline has markets that lose money, in spite of what some might think.


User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6626 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16392 times:

I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?


I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16360 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):

With a network carrier, everyone's got some unprofitable routes, but generally speaking they still feed other, profitable routes. So they keep them flying for the greater good - unless they are just truly dismal and contribute nothing to the rest of the network.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinesancho99504 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 16085 times:

I'm wondering how much of these cuts will be from MKE. From what I've read on here, MKE has been pretty abismal for F9 and FL from a yield standpoint. If that turns out to be the case, I can probably see MKE just feeding into current hubs( ATL, HOU, DEN, etc.) I'm sure we may see a small cut at ATL in the works to, but I don't think the markets that are cut are going to be as bad as what some may take from those comments.


kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 16017 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?

They didnt state whether they were WN or FL flights. Both airlines have unprofitable flying and due to their size, WN probably has much more than FL.


User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 15974 times:

Since we know WN's costs are fairly higher than those of FL, I would stab that some of the more niche point-to-point, single daily (or less than in many cases) routes, and very small stations under 5 flights per day are at some degree of risk, as opposed to any gutting of one particular large scale station. WN likes even it's smallest stations to bear 15-20 departures daily to multiple destinations as it helps spread out costs, labor, etc. There are many, many FL stations with far less than that and in lots of cases, only pointed to a singular hub.

So if I'm right (cool armchair CEO here), MKE might fair better than you might think despite whatever lack of achievement FL had there. It's got bulk. And something tells me retrenching and giving up a market like MKE to their Denver nemesis (F9) would give LUV nightmares.

[Edited 2011-07-13 22:02:53]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 15960 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?

In addition to what others have said, I would add that depending on how unprofitable the flights are, it might still be better to operate them at a loss than to park planes, layoff people, etc.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15798 times:

Personally I think alot of FL's much smaller cities and small stations will be cut. For example: MIA (not a small city but with only a single daily flight to BWI it can't be doing that well), PNS, MLI, ABE, And CRW. Of course these are all my 2 cents though...


By the way guys didn't WN buy FL? If so then isn't it a takeover, not a merger?

[Edited 2011-07-13 22:43:16]

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1322 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15789 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?

For the last few years, FL has made marginal profits, not bad considering the current economic environment. However at WN's cost levels, a lot of the p2p routes will either be made at least daily, or flat out cut.

Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 9):
Since we know WN's costs are fairly higher than those of FL, I would stab that some of the more niche point-to-point, single daily (or less than in many cases) routes, and very small stations under 5 flights per day are at some degree of risk, as opposed to any gutting of one particular large scale station.

  

Not even just those, MKE i believe will still be shrunk as the combined entity will want to flow traffic through MDW and not cannibalize MDW. Also a market like CLT-ATL, FL currently offers 2-3 flts depending on the day/season. DL and US operate 8+ flts depending on the season. The market is not big enough to sustain 3 carriers, even though most traffic is connecting. While I think WN will keep CLT, I wouldn't be shocked to see ATL-CLT dropped as 2-3 flts is not competitive enough and are probably losing money on it.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15775 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
But prior to this, most (all?) of the official PR from WN and former-FL spokespeople was laden with comments on growth, retaining markets, etc.

As is always the case. All mergers result in "downsizing", and anyone who believed otherwise was being naive at best. I should add that it wasn't just PR people spewing this info, there were plenty of posters on here (especially those thrilled at the prospect that WN in ATL may spell the end of DL) who insisted that WN wouldn't cut a thing as a result of the merger. Right...



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15762 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?



He never specified which carrier but you can look at it the way some of us has been screaming about for months. It's a very bare bones way to look at it but that's all we've got as people from the outside looking in. WN's costs are much higher than FL in almost every metric. The junk-fare flying that FL has been doing out of ATL for years has been barely making them money. Fuse that with WN's costs and how thin will the margins fall?

From the get go, WN knew something would have to give, it's only a matter of when, not it.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 888 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15679 times:
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Breaker 1011 wrote

"I wonder if some chopping is a way for WN to get out of the B717 fleet to the extent possible? I realize it would be stupid to get rid of 88 aircraft with any speed, but there are still 73G's coming into the combined fleet at a decent pace. That, combined with cuts and generally speeding turns to WN standards on Airtran's routes, could make the 717 history in 18-24 months - albeit completely stall any growth in the meantime."

The 717 is staying not only because of the size of the fleet but also only a few of the gates on C and D concourse at ATL can accommodate 737's


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15590 times:

WN is not going to keep some of the really small cites like Asheville,Tunica,Huntsville,Lexington,Moline/Quad cities,Knoxville,Newport News, Allentown or Atlantic City.
I think you will see enough service cut from the small cities and the over lap markets to be able to do 3 things.
1. replace 25 737-500's with 717's over the next 2 yrs.
2. connect MDW and ATL to a few new markets.
3. Free up aircraft to cover MX work to get FL aircraft into WN model set up.
Miami staying from what I hear it's going to be a 8 flights a day city.
Also there is rumored that WN and SWAPA have worked out a deal to allow a full code share with FL for 2yrs only until the merger is complete and if the merger is not complete within the 2 yrs they gave WN 2 options any existing FL flying will be stopped or the SWAPA union will get a big cash payment for failure to complete the merger in the given time frame.
The next schedule release for WN and FL is i think on the 25 of July we should hear something other wise nothing until November release. enjoy wnfg.



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineadtall From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 75 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15555 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
The 717 is staying not only because of the size of the fleet but also only a few of the gates on C and D concourse at ATL can accommodate 737's

You could resize the gates in question on C to 737 size, you'd just lose a few in the process. For example, before Airtran resized their C concourse gates to what they are now, I believe they had 20 gates which should allow for all of them to handle 737s (not sure if that would include winglets or not). Right now they have 22 gates, so to resize they'd likely lose 2 gates. On D I believe most of the 9-10 gates Airtran uses can accomodate 737s already, maybe not D1 and D1A, but the others should.

[Edited 2011-07-13 23:47:13]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5604 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15457 times:

Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought the first few releases by Mr. Kelly about the take-over of FL said in no uncertain terms that there would be no discontinued cities... but only for a certain time period (maybe thru 2012? Or for a year or two?) The speculation here on A.net was that he would stick to that but as soon as his self-proclaimed time limit was up, watch out -- the axe will come out and it will start swinging!

And I still think that's just what will happen. Nothing surprising here -- certainly not to most of us -- to read such comments from WN management now. I don't think anyone really thought many of those small FL cities would be around for long, did they?

As I and many others have said all along, when the dust settles in a couple of years, WN's route map will look fairly similar to what it is today, with just a handfull of new cities (including Atlanta), some new routes (including trans-border), and a somewhat different fleet makeup (with 2 airplane types and significantly larger in number of frames.) Oh, and one less competitor!

bb


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15348 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
The 717 is staying not only because of the size of the fleet but also only a few of the gates on C and D concourse at ATL can accommodate 737's

Very easy fix. In fact, DL re-shuffles gates all the time in Atlanta, with the most recent being complete on both A & B before the summer travel season. There are now more 757 capable gates as a lot could only park up to a 738/320 and many on B not being able to park anything larger than an MD-90.

They should also do what DL does on C. C30 and C46 shift between RJs and mainline throughout the day, depending on flight load. When 30 is "RJ ready, C32 is also in use. As with when C48 is "RJ ready" C50 is in use and can park up to a CR9. When they put a 737 or 320 on 30 or 48, 32 and 50 shut down.

Not sure if FL would want to do this but Delta has gained a lot of flexibility out of the 4 gates on C that park mainline (C30/C48/C47/C51) There are a few others that can park mainline but they haven't been used as such just yet.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15189 times:

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 7):
I'm wondering how much of these cuts will be from MKE.
Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 9):
MKE might fair better than you might think despite whatever lack of achievement FL had there.

According to my calcs, from a gate standpoint WN only has room for about 87 more flights that they can add at MDW.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12235 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
I'm curious, if the flights ate not profitable, then why is FL flying them?
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 12):
For the last few years, FL has made marginal profits, not bad considering the current economic environment. However at WN's cost levels, a lot of the p2p routes will either be made at least daily, or flat out cut.

AirTran has always been brutal about cutting unprofitable routes and markets, so it's unlikely there's much fat in their schedule, regardless of fuel prices. The most likely cuts are the "AllegianTran" markets that probably fit WN's business model less than they have FL's.

I always thought it was amazing that FL had figured out how to do the subweekly-flights-to-sunspots-from-small-markets model profitably, to begin with. That model seems to rely upon Allegiant's whole-travel-package model for profitability. I'd be curious to know how FL has done it.

Most likely a lot of the remaining flights are overlap flights.

And fuel prices can't stay where they are anyway; it's an austerity world nowadays, and economies will only take so much befroe oil prices are rudely disciplined.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11342 times:

Why didn't WN cut their nonprofitable routes before merger and same for FL? Seems like common sense to me.


From the airport with love
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11236 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 22):
Why didn't WN cut their nonprofitable routes before merger and same for FL? Seems like common sense to me.

They kind of already did, However keep in mind what is profitable for FL may not be profitable on WN's business stand point and vice versa.

So when the combined airline shows their network, they will then point out the weaker routes and try to fix it, amend it or otherwise outright drop it.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25694 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11239 times:
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Quoting goblin211 (Reply 22):
Why didn't WN cut their nonprofitable routes before merger and same for FL? Seems like common sense to me.

Some think that Airtran took the easy way out and dumped the problem in Southwest's lap.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Post contains images n7371f : I'm one of them...as I posted much the same over on the current F9 board. And, once again, we are reminded of the PR blabbing that comes from mergers
26 kcrwflyer : I'm going to get my head cut off for saying something this reasonable on here but I'm going to put it out there anyway. In many of these smaller citi
27 Grid : A lot of flights for a lot of airlines are probably not profitable.
28 smoot4208 : You could be right, but the problem is airlines have limited resources (airplanes) and WN is going to want to build ATL up to the next DEN. They will
29 PlanesNTrains : I second that (well, I guess "third" that). My question - and I've pondered it before on here - is what happens at the likes of BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, e
30 Flytravel : I wonder if Southwest could just codeshare with the Cape Air LNS-BWI flight, like how JetBlue codeshares with Cape Air's EAS flights into BOS, and ju
31 Byrdluvs747 : So where does this leave those communities that will be cut? DL only? I believe the govt should have denied this merger, as we knew it would hurt smal
32 PlanesNTrains : Which towns are losing all air service? -Dave
33 breaker1011 : Isn't FL's ATL hub already larger than WN's DEN operation?
34 Atrude777 : At the moment the Pilot contract does not allow ANY domestic code-sharing except for the intra island routes in Hawaii. Air Tran (if it occurs) is th
35 Post contains images wnflyguy : The rumor around WN is that SWAP and WN have work out a short term deal on doing a code share with all of the FL network but it's not going into place
36 txkf2010 : I wouldn't be surprised to see newly start BDA get the ax totally and completely. If not for the low load factor, poor ground handling/agent services
37 FlyPNS1 : GSP/CHS have no revenue guarantees. ECP has subsidies, but at last report WN did not need them. Chopping always happens at WN, though cutting markets
38 wwtraveler99 : I have not heard this before. I think that is great of SWAPA. I have heard that a code share will not be able to be started until after the first of
39 slcdeltarumd11 : I think alot of this slashing is gonna happen at MKE. MDW is the destined connection city. Looking at MKE fares i am sure there are many routes there
40 AVLAirlineFreq : While many of the responses in this thread have focused on the smaller FL markets with few daily flights, I think those are a proverbial drop in the b
41 micstatic : I wonder if Southwest will continue with EYW? Nice having competition on that route.
42 ERJ170 : I could only hope they would grow it.. My thoughts? 2x MCO, 2x BWI, 1x TPA, 1x FLL, and 2x ATL.. with a mix of 717, 735, 73G
43 micstatic : I would like to see everything you have listed, but I'm not sure if they could make BWI work from a performance standpoint.
44 mikefrommke : F9 doesn't need any more gates in MKE at this time and they don't utilize all of their gates fully either, and I they aren't going to give up any gat
45 ScottB : I don't think you could get any of these aircraft off EYW's runway to BWI without taking severe weight restrictions. FL only uses the 73G at EYW, and
46 Post contains links WNCrew : But approving the DL/NW merger was okay because? See http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...to-prnews-1037600123.html?x=0&.v=1
47 wwtraveler99 : I think that in DEN the airport would go ahead with the plan to add more "C" gates. That is what was going to happen before all the movement in DEN.
48 Post contains images wnflyguy : When 2014 rolls around I think you will see DAL scale back some service like every 30min to HOU will get cut to every hour to make room for new N/S se
49 wwtraveler99 : I agree with you that WN will drop some of the one stop flights to places like DEN, MDW, BWI, LAX, LAS, and PHX. Overall though I see a total net gai
50 micstatic : Yeah, that's kind of what I meant about BWI. Would be shocked if anything could do that practically. I think Delta does the 73G to Key West without r
51 knope2001 : Certainly just speculation at this point on what WN will really do in Milwaukee, but the two announced Southwest additions at Milwaukee (1x to DEN an
52 Post contains images SurfandSnow : Everyone is so quick to assume that Kelly is only talking about PMFL routes. I daresay stuff like JAN-MCO, BHM-JAX, and CHS-BNA, among others, are op
53 AVLAirlineFreq : As WN continues to grow, at what point does the "too close to existing WN markets" argument fade away?
54 Post contains images breaker1011 : I picture a DL gate gate agent in EYW saying "Kids: Nintendos under your seat please, and leave your parents here." Just a joke, I know what you mean
55 727LOVER : Panama City is smaller than a lot of these markets mentioned, yet WN seems to do fine there. From what I ve read on these forums, WN hasn t used any s
56 kcrwflyer : That largely depends on the size of the markets in question. I think it's already faded in most of the areas it can. That argument should live on lon
57 EricR : Yes, but even you believe this is the case based on the destinations you say are on the chopping block. I think FL relied on a lot of mid/smaller des
58 AVLAirlineFreq : Although a number of FL's smaller/midsize destinations (TYS, LEX, CRW, AVL, EYW, ABE, MLI) really have no connectivity to the FL network, with only P
59 cubsrule : But network connectivity doesn't necessarily mean feeding a hub. A route like BHM-JAX doesn't work because it has a tremendous amount of connections;
60 Flytravel : Maybe MKE becomes an equivalent of MCI, that has nonstop access to its current west coast cities, all of the WN hubs and some more cities. Worse, WN
61 Post contains images SurfandSnow : I think part of the reason WN is so profitable is that they have an extremely loyal following. So loyal that many people were (and often still are) w
62 BMI727 : I think it's history. There is a lot of competition from Delta, so much that they dropped Peoria to add more flights to BMI so they can compete with
63 cubsrule : But whatever local market is flying BHM-JAX can already route through BNA and TPA. I don't see how ATL changes the picture. Given the nonexistent loc
64 kcrwflyer : A little bit less than none. Isolation is the big advantage on our side. They could reasonably pull from about 2 hours in each direction. We're also
65 AADC10 : Because they were waiting for the economy to rebound and fuel prices to drop. That did not happen and FL was unable to deploy to routes that were pro
66 crAAzy : Airlines don't necessarily have to cut routes to make flying profitable ... they can raise fares too. That's exactly what I expect WN to be doing in
67 Post contains images enilria : BTW, it is extremely interesting that this statement comes out hours after WN reached a pilot integration deal. That is not a coincidence. I'm betting
68 cubsrule : If GSP works - and it apparently is working - why can TYS not work?
69 kcrwflyer : You might want to check on how that HSV service is performing.
70 enilria : We don't know if GSP works or not. It may be full. That means little. Regardless, there are too many projects for WN to undertake at once. I think th
71 cubsrule : They still serve it, do they not?
72 aerlingusa330 : I hope it won't either. If FL leaves RIC, our fares will undoubtedly start to creep up, but it might help keep B6 here as well. We'll obviously see O
73 enilria : They still serve JAN, but pretty much anybody will tell you it loses money and always has.
74 ScottB : MKE-STL doesn't have much traffic, even with fairly modest ($95 each way on FL) average fares. It was probably the best SkyWest/FL* market at MKE, bu
75 enilria : Any addition against F9 inside their normal schedule load window is significant. Plus with the NEO situation, Boeing will probably do anything WN ask
76 FlyASAGuy2005 : Both DL mainline flights operate into and out of EYW without restrictions. Only one in place is for non-revs and they are limtied to one checked bag
77 FlyPNS1 : But why is the local market nonexistent? No demand or not the right fares being offered. This statement was made about six days ago BEFORE the pilot
78 cubsrule : No demand. It's a 2 hour drive.
79 caleeiii : BHM-ATL Trip distance: 146.31 mi Time: 2 hrs 23 mins BHM-BNA Trip distance: 199.87 mi Time: 3 hrs 2 mins Only 39 minute difference. Why do they offer
80 cubsrule : 2 words: Wright Amendment. It's only around 11 PDEW.
81 knope2001 : Does that belief come from something in particular, or just a suspicion. The comment waasn't made by Kelly in Atlanta -- it was reported in the ATL p
82 caleeiii : So, the Wright Amendment wouldn't come into play with ATL? ATL-BHM-DAL isn't also an option? How is that different from ATL-BHM-DAL with regard to th
83 cubsrule : Since I've already given you a 2 word answer, I'll give you a 1 word answer to this one: inertia. BHM-BNA ran for years before the amendments to the
84 enilria : Every market is different. It is not so much the size of the market. It has more to do with the level of competition, how well WN can serve the top O
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WN Announces 2nd Round Of EWR Services posted Wed Dec 15 2010 10:13:03 by atrude777
Is There A WN/FL Merger Timeframe? posted Sun Oct 31 2010 03:06:42 by NorthstarBoy