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AF And North America  
User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

Just curious is AF plans to add any new destinations in North America?

Is YVR a possibility?

I have read on here that YUL and IAD are two of their more profitable stations. What others in North America do well for them?

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12694 times:

Well MIA supposedly does okay for them. They were supposed to go from 744 to 77W but canceled it, so i guees its doing pretty good. In due time after they recieve more A380's I can see them sending one to MIA.

User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12679 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
Well MIA supposedly does okay for them. They were supposed to go from 744 to 77W but canceled it, so i guees its doing pretty good. In due time after they recieve more A380's I can see them sending one to MIA.

I feel like any time someone questions how a foreign carrier does, someone always steps in and talks about how well MIA does and how great of a market it is. Not surprising though.


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

Well you asked what cities they serve in the U.S. And how they do... I only have observed the MIA flight. No others.....

User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12598 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 3):
Well you asked what cities they serve in the U.S. And how they do... I only have observed the MIA flight. No others.....

I wasn't saying it as an insult or attack, sorry if it came off that way.

Not surprising MIA does well for AF considering how prominent a city Miami is and how many Europeans head down there.


User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12504 times:

How is the CDG-SEA flight doing for AF so far?

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12358 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
Well MIA supposedly does okay for them. They were supposed to go from 744 to 77W but canceled it, so i guees its doing pretty good. In due time after they recieve more A380's I can see them sending one to MIA.


The 744s are a high capacity Y with low premium seating. They are usually sent to leisure destinations. I believe the 777W has Y+.



John@SFO
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12292 times:

AF is doing well on LAX and IAH, much more than MIA.

MIA is not an important US station for AF.

SEA is doing much better this summer with a high load factor and Daily A343 iso the A332


User currently offline777klm From China, joined Apr 2005, 532 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

Well... during the winter season AF will stop flying CDG-ORD with their own metal. The flight will be operated by Delta instead. (not a new service... I know)


Next flight: AMS-PEK
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12155 times:

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 4):
I wasn't saying it as an insult or attack, sorry if it came off that way.

Well, in defense of the person who said it, it certainly did come off that way. Only JFK is served by more European airlines of all U.S. airports, so it's natural that it would come up.

Air France has particuallary asked MIA to study converting gate H8 to become A380 capable, so it is certainly putting serious consideration into sending the A380 to MIA. This was pointed out in a recent annual report from MIA.

Miami-Paris is one of the 30 largest U.S.-Europe O&D city pairs.



a.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11997 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Air France has particuallary asked MIA to study converting gate H8 to become A380 capable, so it is certainly putting serious consideration into sending the A380 to MIA. This was pointed out in a recent annual report from MIA.

Air France has no intention to use the A380 to MIA.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10):

Can we say SFO was also not considered a high priority for the A 380 before LH starte their own service?

Just a thought.



John@SFO
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10572 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 11):
Can we say SFO was also not considered a high priority for the A 380 before LH starte their own service?

Just a thought.

You are right. BUT :
There is a lot of unexpected event and factors that contributed to bring SFO as an A380 for Air France (only for 3 months this summer ...) :
- The A380 removed from CDG-NRT following the drop of traffic on flights to JAPAN after the earthquake in March needed to be used somewhere (the A380 to SFO will stop on Sept 4th, and will return to NRT starting Sept.9th)
- AF terminal at LAX, initially planned as a replacement destination, being not ready for the A380.
- The necessity to find an A380 ready airport on the network, with ground staff already trained for the A380 and maintenance staff available just in case (LH at SFO) as there was not enough time train new staff in such a short period.
-Economical environment favorable for SFO : A very popular destination for French tourists during the summer, a lot of demand from AF loyal FFP customers to use their miles for free tickets to this destination (SFO is the AF destination with the highest rate of French passengers on each flight).
Etc ...

You can say that the AF A380 to SFO is a (happy) "accident" we wouldn't see without those particular circumstances.
And I really doubt to see it again next summer (unless ...).

Concerning AF A380, note that MEX, initially planned soon seems now to abandoned in favor of GRU. Nothing confirmed yet, though.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
In due time after they recieve more A380's I can see them sending one to MIA.

I could see it. I think there is a better chance for VS or BA but since AF obviously has A380s first it is possible.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10):
Air France has no intention to use the A380 to MIA.

Of course not, they just want to waste MIA's money and time asking them about converting their gate to an A380 gate. It is not for sure at all I say 50/50 but it is a definent possibility.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
MIA is not an important US station for AF.

It is not JFK or LAX but it is a station that does well for them. Two flights a day a 744 to CDG and an A320 to PAP.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10254 times:

Quoting MAV88 (Thread starter):
Just curious is AF plans to add any new destinations in North America?

IF any new destinations are added I would think either PHX or DEN for the mountain region. I would think PHX maybe better since DEN has already BA and LH and PHX only has BA. But thats just my opinion  

Sadly with how fast AF is pulling out of the USA market and replacing service with DL (yuck) no offense to any DL lovers or fliers but I would personally rather fly AF then DL to CDG.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9612 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
You are right. BUT

Thanks for the explanation. The planets aligned to make this move. On a side note, SFO management was notified by AF that they would like to bring the A380 into SFO S12 but things can change and nothing is firm.



John@SFO
User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9300 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 13):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10):
Air France has no intention to use the A380 to MIA.

Of course not, they just want to waste MIA's money and time asking them about converting their gate to an A380 gate. It is not for sure at all I say 50/50 but it is a definent possibility.

Haha, right on, flymia. But, I'd put the odds a little higher myself. Not only does CDG-MIA have substantial demand (enough to warrant an A380 service), it's not a route that requires a multitude of frequencies to cater to business traffic (like IAD and JFK do), which makes it ideal for A380 service in order to increase capacity without having to send additional aircraft.

[Edited 2011-07-18 09:39:25]

[Edited 2011-07-18 09:40:22]

[Edited 2011-07-18 09:45:36]


12 months:pvg hkg bkk doh mxp nce zrh iah lhr gva iad clt lax nrt sin mnl ceb del jai gay vns szx zuh mfm icn can
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
They were supposed to go from 744 to 77W but canceled it, so i guees its doing pretty good.

Well, capacity-wise, they are supposed to be similar, therefore the 77W is more an upgrade with modern IFE. AF seems to have different opinions on the 3-4-3 thing than most A.netters...

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
In due time after they recieve more A380's I can see them sending one to MIA.

Except for the fact that they have served MIA until now with high density, low J, aircraft. So, that would mean a drastic change of plans for this market. It might work well with an A380 but they'd have to position themselves as a key player on the (rather big) business market of MIA. Which is already quite competitive.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10):
Air France has no intention to use the A380 to MIA.

hahaha, like they had no intentions to use it to YUL, I guess! The airline industry always knows how to surprise us...

Quoting MAV88 (Thread starter):
Just curious is AF plans to add any new destinations in North America?

Is YVR a possibility?

Well, they have it covered by KL. And so is YYC.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 14):
Sadly with how fast AF is pulling out of the USA market and replacing service with DL (yuck) no offense to any DL lovers or fliers but I would personally rather fly AF then DL to CDG.

I'm not sure whether they are really "pulling out". ORD will become history, like PHL or CVG already are, but they just added MCO, upgraded some of the YUL, JFK and IAD flights with the A380.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
AF is doing well on LAX and IAH, much more than MIA.

Didn't they trim some capacity to IAH?

Quoting flymia (Reply 13):
I could see it. I think there is a better chance for VS or BA but since AF obviously has A380s first it is possible.

Better chance even for LH
 



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Air France has particuallary asked MIA to study converting gate H8 to become A380 capable

Source ?

Working for AF and flying the A380 since Nov. 2009, I never heard about this and about MIA as a potential A380 destination ... But I don't know everything !  

All I know is that AF is currently operating 6 A380. No A380 will be added in the fleet before April 2012 and only 2 aircraft will be added at this date.
The 6 , then 8, A380 will be used to AF busiest and most profitable routes (and obviously MIA is not).
There are many more routes that would justify the A380 before MIA (GRU, GIG, LAX, PEK, PVG, SIN, HKG, just to name a few).

But, hey ...., we'll see.

As YULWinterSkies says, the airline industry always knows how to surprise us...


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8096 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Miami-Paris is one of the 30 largest U.S.-Europe O&D city pairs

Are you talking about just AF of in general?

On another related note, is AF still sending the A380 to YUL or have they changed that?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 17):
ORD will become history

Are you saying that the seasonal discontinuation of service to ORD will become permanent before spring arrives?

[Edited 2011-07-18 12:14:11]

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 17):
Except for the fact that they have served MIA until now with high density, low J, aircraft. So, that would mean a drastic change of plans for this market. It might work well with an A380 but they'd have to position themselves as a key player on the (rather big) business market of MIA. Which is already quite competitive.

Very true but change happens and in the case of MIA this change is called Delta. Delta has the customer base at MIA that NW never had. DL is showing interest in growing the MIA market and the stronger DL gets at MIA, the stronger the case for an AF A380 at MIA. In addition, Latin American economies are growing and MIA is the gateway to Latin America.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
In addition, Latin American economies are growing and MIA is the gateway to Latin America.

I agree on your DL growing in MIA assertion.....except for now there is little LatAm feed in MIA for AF



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6818 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
I agree on your DL growing in MIA assertion.....except for now there is little LatAm feed in MIA for AF

Not yet there isn't  
Quoting MAV88 (Reply 4):

I wasn't saying it as an insult or attack, sorry if it came off that way.

Not surprising MIA does well for AF considering how prominent a city Miami is and how many Europeans head down there.

Its okay I misunderstood. And for sure. Europeans love Miami 


25 Post contains images yellowtail : Well, to be fair....I have booked a couple of pax CUN-MIA-CDG on AM/AF...and strangely enough...couple of those were J I did say "little"
26 Post contains images steeler83 : Regarding MIA and supposed A380 service, isn't MIA supposed to get the A380 courtesy of LH? I would think JFK would get one, too (AF A380, that is). M
27 MAH4546 : Whether or not it has the intention, it has asked MIA for a proposal to convert gate H8 to be A380 capable. In fact, this was publicly published last
28 jfk777 : Why would the Miami airport change gate H8 to A380 capable, its NOT on J concourse(the new one) as Lufthansa's gate is. Air France needs to change ga
29 MAH4546 : Because that's where the space is. MIA has long term plans for four A380 gates. One each in Low E, F, and H to compliment the existing gate in J.
30 jonathanxxxx : Anything in D incase BA wants to use the A380 to MIA? Or will BA stay in E? Wasn't D made to include all OneWorld members? Sorry I'm just not that fa
31 SCL767 : AF already operates into BOG, CCS, *CUN, EZE, GIG, GRU, HAV, LIM, MEX, PUJ, SCL and SDQ non-stop from París-CDG. AF also operates non-stop flights b
32 goblin211 : Wouldn't AF be doing super on every major airport in the US and Canada except for ORD? kind of strange if you as me.
33 point2point : These are two destinations that would probably work quite well for AF, but with DL's SLC-CDG service, I'm pretty sure that AF will not rock DL's boat
34 MAH4546 : No. E will continue to be used by AA and OW for the foreseeable future. D simply cannot handle all the AA traffic. I believe that D's layout with sid
35 thenoflyzone : It is a year round service with the A380, with only 5 weeks from 30 Oct to 11 Dec where YUL will not get the A380. Thenoflyzone[Edited 2011-07-18 18:
36 thenoflyzone : I've always wondered why KL serves YVR and not AF. One of the reasons why i say this is due to the huge Indian community in YVR and how CDG has bette
37 delimit : DL's SLC service is AF's SLC service. They are JV partners. Anywhere AF goes in the US DL gets a share of. The ORD trade is seasonal, and probably jus
38 EricR : While it would be great to see AF in PHX, I don't think that will happen. I think LH would be the most likely European carrier to serve PHX next.
39 MAV88 : So, can anyone talk specifics about what North American stations are the most profitable for AF? Or is this going to be all about MIA and AF sending t
40 flyyul : Refer to the destinations with multi-daily frequencies. AF won't send a lot of metal to places if there isn't money to be made. JFK YUL IAD IAH LAX A
41 MAH4546 : IAHCDG is only once a day, and I believe further being reduced to 6w this winter.
42 airbazar : I was refering to LatAm businesses located in Miami. Corporate headquarters and such, as well as American and European companies having their LatAm b
43 flymia : As stated earlier IAH is one daily. Does MIA count as multi frequencies with the flight to PAP?
44 Post contains images IrishAyes : Interesting insight, but I personally don't think that the large Indian population in Vancouver presents a strong enough business case for AF to fly
45 goldorak : don't forget that until recently (i.e. until signature of open sky agreement between EU & Canada), the bilateral treaty between France and Canada
46 Viscount724 : The old Canada-France bilateral did permit YVR-PPT service, although the only direct service ever operated on that route was 5th freedom service by Q
47 COflyerBOS : IAH was twice daily back when CO was in SkyTeam. It's now down to just 777 service. However, many people call this flight the Schlumberger Express and
48 Post contains images FlySSC : Indeed ... PPT-YVR was possible but not YVR-CDG-YVR ...
49 SR4ever : AC flew CDG-YVR (with 763) from 1994 to 1997 or so.
50 FlySSC : I don't think AC ever flew nonstop CDG-YVR ... I guess the flight was via YYZ.
51 thenoflyzone : AC flew YVR-YUL-CDG last summer with a B763, but didn't bother returning the service this year (from YVR, that is). That 763 now runs the second dail
52 Post contains images goldorak : You know as well as everybody on this forum that this flight is in no way a service CDG to YVR. This is just a CDG-YUL flight connecting to a YUL-YVR
53 czbbflier : I may be wrong- this is just a hunch- but KL serves Vancouver because CP used to fly non-stop to Amsterdam. CP did that flight because, a) AC (Trans-
54 Viscount724 : Air Transat is operating YVR-CDG nonstop once a week this summer with A330-200 (Sunday eastbound, Monday westbound). That type of operation by a leis
55 SR4ever : No, it was a direct one, operating 3-weekly. These were the times when AF and AC were forging ahead an alliance, before AC shifted to LH and Star. Gi
56 goldorak : It's not point-to-point only. AF has a lot of feed on CDG side. DFW : AF failed in 2001 on this route and on KL side, the route becomes seasonal. So
57 FlySSC : DL will axe its PHL-CDG flight next winter 2011/2012.
58 point2point : I do believe there is a lot of $$$$$ there for someone to get a n/s DEN-CDG started.
59 MAH4546 : Small local market and Denver-Europe fares tend to be low. So, I doubt it.
60 SR4ever : Let's face it: AF, together with KL and DL, already serve quite many airports in North America. Apart than ANC (seasonal), YVR and PHX/LAS, there is h
61 MAH4546 : Maybe in a healthy economy we will see JFKLYS or JFKMRS. MIANCE is big enough to handle a few flights a week in a good travel market. LAXNCE, too, bu
62 Post contains images SR4ever : JFK-LYS doubtless, but more sceptical about JFK-MRS. A 752 may also do well on JFK-MLH/BSL. Wouldn't have thought of MIA-NCE, but why not? LAX-NCE is
63 MAH4546 : A 788 doesn't magically make it profitable and doesn't change the fact that it would require more than one frame to operate. It highly doubtful that
64 SR4ever : Agreed, but that could work on a 3 or 4-weekly basis. We shall see once AF places its much-awaited and dicussed longhaul orders. Any way, I was talki
65 Post contains images varig md-11 : Well in the past people were sure no AF A388 would fly to YUL ever...because YUL is supposedly such a Y market: it's a Y market if you can't attract
66 thenoflyzone : It was a same plane direct service. The same way Toronto supposedly has direct service to GVA or BRU. Same plane direct service via YUL. But you are
67 MAH4546 : MIANCE is a strong yielding market, LAXNCE is not. Both markets are roughly the same size, slight edge to LAXNCE.If you don't think there is potentia
68 panamair : It's interesting that Delta actually runs its current JFK-NCE flight (DL82) as MIA-JFK-NCE (with domestic equipment on MIA-JFK of course)...and Delta
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