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AA 757s Refurbishmet With New AA Order  
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12596 times:

Will AA 757s continue with the new AA huge order? I hope so  

If so, when will AA complete the refurbishment? And does anyone have any news in their current progress?

Thanks,
Tony

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12499 times:

The clock is ticking on the AA's 757 fleet. AA said they plan to replace all narrowbodies with variants of A320s and 737s. With the planned phase out of the 757 in short order, I would not expect any refurbishment projects to continue (unless they are already near completion).

User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12315 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 1):
With the planned phase out of the 757 in short order, I would not expect any refurbishment projects to continue (unless they are already near completion).

The first airframe that will start to replace the 757 fleet doesn't come on the property until 2013 so the refurbishments can still go forward. You still have to do checks on all the those 757 until they are replaced. So you still can do the refurbishments. The cockpit upgrades will make the airframe more marketable in the future. So those will still be worked. Only the bean counters know about the cabin upgrades. There are also other upgrades that are being done that will continue that will make the airframes marketable to future owners like FedEx of UPS.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12296 times:

The A321NEO cannot replace the Trans-Atlantic 757, so while the domestic 757s will be retired I don't a replacement for the AA 757s operating deep South America and Trans-Atlantic. The A321NEO is not going to be able to handle Bolivia to Miami flights.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12240 times:
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It depends.

If some of the 752 fleet have a residual value for resale, as well as a few years ahead in terms of lifetime, they shall do it as a lot of startups will be happy to have the 752 on a good price. They are an asset of the company, and not to invest could mean to lose money.
Plus, you can't just wait some 4-5 years replacement without investing in product.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12211 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 2):
The first airframe that will start to replace the 757 fleet doesn't come on the property until 2013 so the refurbishments can still go forward.

They can go forward, but when airlines have a phase out plan in place they don't typical continue with interior refurbishment plans. It's not an issue of whether or not they can complete the project before retirement, its a question of if they can recover the cost of the project over the remaining life of the asset. Especially in AA's case with cost control a primary objective, you can bet that they will have no interest in refurbing planes they plan to start retiring in less than 5 years. The exception as I said is if they the project is already near completion, but I don't think that is the case here.


User currently offlineaacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12093 times:
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Only 11 757's have gone thru refurbishment, 31 are expected by years end and that is as long as maintenance doesnt change its schedule, with all due by end of 2014..... Sounds like a waste to me, but im sure every passenger that will fly an AA 757 in the meantime wont agree with me.

User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4355 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11846 times:

I thought that at least some of the newer 757 builds with the international configuration would stick around to fill that niche to Europe, but apparently that is not going to be the case.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11734 times:

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 11):
I thought that at least some of the newer 757 builds with the international configuration would stick around

I think those will probably the last 75s replaced. Their announcement was centered around their domestic fleet, which is why they included the 767-200s in the discussion. The plans to replace the international 75s will be addressed at some point in the future, but it is clear that the 75s days are numbered at AA.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6996 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

I just do not know what will replace the 757s that do longer international flights. Maybe they will keep some around for a while like US does?


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2244 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11398 times:

Quoting aacun (Reply 6):

Only 11 757's have gone thru refurbishment, 31 are expected by years end and that is as long as maintenance doesnt change its schedule, with all due by end of 2014..... Sounds like a waste to me, but im sure every passenger that will fly an AA 757 in the meantime wont agree with me.


It's up to 14 completed now, and AA says 31 will be complete by the end of the year, baring any schedule changes on maintenance's end. I think we can be certain the MD-80s and 762s will be the first to go, and those two fleets currently stand at 228 a/c. With the initial delivery of 230 aircraft (100 73G and 130 A320), I think we can be certain those aircraft are accounted for. The 757s will come next, and that will be 2017 at the earliest. As for the 75L fleet, I expect that to be the last to go as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if more 75D a/c are reconfigured to the 75L in the short term. It's conceivable the 75L fleet will remain for sometime, especially since they share commonality with the 767 in terms of cockpit crew.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineaacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11255 times:
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Can someone identify where it states that AA is planning to replace the 767-200 fleet with 3 class 737-900 or A321's?
I cant find that info anywhere.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11209 times:

Quoting aacun (Reply 11):
Can someone identify where it states that AA is planning to replace the 767-200 fleet with 3 class 737-900 or A321's?
I cant find that info anywhere.


I believe this was stated by CFO Horton during the press conference this morning. There have been so many different reports of this order that it is hard to keep straight but I believe that's where I heard it. AA will be holding an earnings conference call at 2pm, I expect them to address and take questions about this order during that call.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11144 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 10):
I think we can be certain the MD-80s and 762s will be the first to go, and those two fleets currently stand at 228 a/c. With the initial delivery of 230 aircraft (100 73G and 130 A320), I think we can be certain those aircraft are accounted for. The 757s will come next, and that will be 2017 at the earliest.

If this is the replacement plan and the 75s will be phased out after the MDs and 762s, then I change my previous position on whether they would continue with the refurbs on the 75s. If they won't start to leave the fleet for another a 6+ years then it would make sense to continue the program.


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11096 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Thread starter):
Will AA 757s continue with the new AA huge order? I hope so

I do not think anything will happen to the 757s in the short term. It is the MD-80s that are killing AA and need to be replaced first and there are lots of MD-80s. The actual, firm financed portion of the order is for only 230 aircraft, about enough to replace all of the MD-80s but only a portion of the 757 fleet. Look for the 757s that are around 25 years old. Almost any aircraft that are around the quarter century mark and need a D check are usually prime candidates for retirement.

[Edited 2011-07-20 09:48:21]

User currently offlinedfwexecplat From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11073 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
I just do not know what will replace the 757s that do longer international flights. Maybe they will keep some around for a while like US does

or instead of 737-900er or A321's being replacement for some of Europe and S America, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the 787s are used to replace the 757s on the long haul. AA has tons of options on so many different types of a/c that it gives them a lot of flexibility in what to replace. Doesn't necessarily have to be a 737/A321 for the 757s.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10940 times:

Quoting aacun (Reply 11):
Can someone identify where it states that AA is planning to replace the 767-200 fleet with 3 class 737-900 or A321's?
I cant find that info anywhere.

Tom Horton said it in an interview on CNBC this morning. You can watch it here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43821395



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10863 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 5):
They can go forward, but when airlines have a phase out plan in place they don't typical continue with interior refurbishment plans. It's not an issue of whether or not they can complete the project before retirement, its a question of if they can recover the cost of the project over the remaining life of the asset. Especially in AA's case with cost control a primary objective, you can bet that they will have no interest in refurbing planes they plan to start retiring in less than 5 years. The exception as I said is if they the project is already near completion, but I don't think that is the case here.

Some 757s will be flying for 8-10 more years. AA has a massive fleet, and the only plane that might replace it on longer missions is the A321NEO and/or 739RE, depending on how they ultimately turn out. Neither would be due before 2017, and AA won't get every aircraft off the line starting then, so it would take years to replace the last 757s.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10802 times:

Hopefully Boeing's next aircraft will be out by the time the TATL 757s need to go, probably towards the end of this decade or early next decade.

Here's another question: Is there any significant difference between the current-generation A-320 and 737-800? Is one of them better on transcons, and one better on shorthauls, or is there effectively no difference?


User currently offlineLPSHobby From Brazil, joined May 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10759 times:
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Quoting dfwexecplat (Reply 15):
or instead of 737-900er or A321's being replacement for some of Europe and S America, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the 787s are used to replace the 757s on the long haul. AA has tons of options on so many different types of a/c that it gives them a lot of flexibility in what to replace. Doesn't necessarily have to be a 737/A321 for the 757s.

but would a 787-800 could be profitable used instead inthe current South America/Europe routes with lower demand currently served by 757s? the 787-800 is much bigger than a 757!


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10710 times:

A transatlantic 757 replacement is not really that big an issue for AA. They actually have only 9x daily TATL flights using the 757 right now and quite a few of those (eg 3x daily BOS-LHR, JFK-MAD) are to alliance partner hubs and could easily support AA wide-body equipment under the joint venture, alongside that of BA/IB. Others like JFK-CDG/BRU, ORD-MAN supported 763s for decades and only recently became 757s with the current shortage of wide-body equipment. I think the only TATL route that would struggle to support anything larger than a 757 is BOS-CDG.


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9223 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Plus, you can't just wait some 4-5 years replacement without investing in product.

Jeez, I think AA has gone decades without upgrading its planes! Especially the coach cabins.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9110 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 20):
A transatlantic 757 replacement is not really that big an issue for AA. They actually have only 9x daily TATL flights using the 757 right now and quite a few of those (eg 3x daily BOS-LHR, JFK-MAD) are to alliance partner hubs and could easily support AA wide-body equipment under the joint venture, alongside that of BA/IB. Others like JFK-CDG/BRU, ORD-MAN supported 763s for decades and only recently became 757s with the current shortage of wide-body equipment. I think the only TATL route that would struggle to support anything larger than a 757 is BOS-CDG.


It absolutely is a big issue unless AA wants to continue falling behind the competition and ignoring key, smaller European markets.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

The A321NEO cannot replace the Trans-Atlantic 757, so while the domestic 757s will be retired I don't a replacement for the AA 757s operating deep South America and Trans-Atlantic. The A321NEO is not going to be able to handle Bolivia to Miami flights.

Bolivia can just as easily operate with a 763.



a.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 19):
but would a 787-800 could be profitable used instead inthe current South America/Europe routes with lower demand currently served by 757s? the 787-800 is much bigger than a 757!

More importantly, they don't have any 787-8s on order. Only 787-9s.

NS


User currently offlinegenybustrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

I give the 757 refurbishments less than a 50/50 shot. It's going to depend primarily on the replacement schedule, ownership status, and cash conservation measures in place. AA will need to consider the operating costs of each fleet (S80, 757, 762) AND the capital cost of each fleet. This should dictate the replacement schedule. It will also depend on how many 757s are owned vs. leased.

If the 757s are owned and schedule for late replacement, then the refurbishments will likely continue. If the 757s are leased or scheduled for early replacement, the refurbishment program will likely be mothballed.

If AA wants to stop the cash bleed at all costs, the refurbishments will be canceled regardless of the above. However, if this was the case, the program would not have received the green light in the first place.


25 Mattuk : JFK-MAN is also operated by a 752. I think AA would struggle with 2 x daily MAN flights (JFK & ORD), each operated by the 763. That would be a ma
26 STT757 : Can the 763 operate into La Paz?.. I'm not familiar with intra South America flights so I don't what types regularly fly into La Paz, all I know is L
27 DFWEagle : If AA goes ahead and opens a dozen or so new European routes to smaller cities in the next few years, then sure, a direct 757 TATL replacement would
28 MAH4546 : The evidence is in the fact that AA created the 75L fleet in the first place and acquired a dozen prime trans-Atlantic timed slots from jetBlue. The
29 DFWEagle : The 75EL sub-fleet was created concurrently with the retirement of the A300s and the re-deployment of some 763s on Latin America/Caribbean routes. It
30 UPS757Pilot : Yes, our newest 763Fs have this capability. It involves reconfiguring the cabin altitude alerting system. The 763 has plenty of thrust.
31 American 767 : As far as I know, I don't see any significant difference between the two besides the fact that the A320 is 10 years older than the NG737. The NG737 w
32 MAH4546 : The 75L fleet was created with the original intention of expanding into smaller European markets, a plan which was put on hold last year. It's been a
33 boeing767mech : We don't do D checks our maint. programs has light middle and heavy c checks which has parts of the d checks in them. They just need another fire bot
34 genybustrvlr : What benefit does this add? I'm not doubting, just don't understand. How does this impact range in terms of fuel burn?
35 Post contains links Qantas744ER : Unlike the 757/767/777 the 737 does not have a RAT (Ram Air Turbine) so in case of a double engine failure an immediate alternate power source is nec
36 UPS757Pilot : I believe AS was using the APU procedure for its Hawaii flights.
37 ZKNCL : The TATL 757's will be going with the rest. An aircraft is NOT always replaced directly. So when a new 737 or A320 comes along that can not fly that d
38 Sevensixtyseven : Maybe depending on the age and condition of these birds...US seems in need of a few 752s. They're Rolls powered, wingletted, and all they'd need is a
39 TSS : Since ETOPS missions using 737s to replace aging 757s seems to be the emerging trend, how hard would it be to equip an existing 737 with a RAT in ord
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