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787-10 And 777NG  
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2361 posts, RR: 25
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

The 787-8 is flying (finally). And hopefully the 787-9 will be up in a year or so. So what next?

Boeing has to offer something to compete with the A359. And all indications are that it will be a 787-10. So if they go ahead with such an offer, does this mean that the only 777s that get the NG treatment would be the 77L, 77W and 77F? Or would Boeing go even further and drop the 772 size completely and focus all its NG efforts on the 77W (with possibly a 77W freighter)? Would the 77L be competitive against an A359R?

Also, with the 787 line sold out through 2019, would Boeing hold off on the 787-10 for a few years and do the 77NG first? After all, what's the point of building the 787-10 and then not being able to sell it?

So how does a.net see the 787-10 and 77NG fleshing out?

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

I thought Boeing had stated previously that they were "moving in the direction of" a 787-10 and they would offer it to customers sometime in 2012 or 2013.

I believe it will be a great airplane and will probably be met with the same success as the 359. Hell maybe even UA will pick some up.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
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The 787-10X won't enter service until the second half of this decade.

It should be able to hold it's own against the A350-900 on medium-range missions (10 hours or less), but it won't be able to perform long-range (12 hours or more).

The 777X will likely be a bit later than the 787-10X, but it will depend on when the GE9X is ready. I expect we'll only see the 777-200LR, 777-300ER and 777 Freighter updated. Boeing has also been mumbling about retiring the 77L and 77W and develop a new 777-8X and 777-9X, the former slotting in between the 77L and 77W and the second being longer than the 77W.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5718 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Boeing has also been mumbling about retiring the 77L and 77W and develop a new 777-8X and 777-9X, the former slotting in between the 77L and 77W and the second being longer than the 77W.

Given the turmoil for Boeing atm, they might be better off with incremental improvements to the 77W along with the GE9X. I don't think they have the resources to do a clean sheet given all the other stuff on their plate.


User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 3):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Boeing has also been mumbling about retiring the 77L and 77W and develop a new 777-8X and 777-9X, the former slotting in between the 77L and 77W and the second being longer than the 77W.

Given the turmoil for Boeing atm, they might be better off with incremental improvements to the 77W along with the GE9X. I don't think they have the resources to do a clean sheet given all the other stuff on their plate.



Boeing has been planning 777 incremental changes for some time, as well as a possible 777-8X/9X. The article below outlines some of changes...

Boeing puts 777-8X and -9X on the table as A350-1000 response
21-06-2011

www.flightglobal.com
By Jon Ostrower

PARIS -- The show has been a buzz with talk of Boeing's next move on the 737, yet the airframer has provided some clarity on near term and longer term 777 improvements, including the 777+ and conceptual studies for aircraft it has dubbed the 777-8X and 777-9X, intended as a possible response to the updated A350-1000 now available in 2017.

"We're taking the -1000 very seriously," said Albaugh, "We're going to put our assessment on when that plane can be available. We'll take a hard look on how long it will take them to go up in rate. Whether or not that is incremental improvements or a significant derivative [for the 777] it remains to be seen."

In the near-term, said Boeing vice president of business development, Nicole Piasecki, the airframer is evaluating a series of incremental updates dubbed the 777+, which include extending the wingspan of the 777, along with adding avionics enhancements, similar to that of the 747-8, providing additional capability to the flight deck for the crew without changing the display area.

The 777+ marks a return to the forefront of the extended wingspan option after being shelved in 2010 as the company explored other options for the long-range widebody. At the time of its evaluation, the extended wing could have been available as early as the fourth quarter of 2012, said company sources.


Industry and company sources also indicate structural modifications are being evaluated to more comfortably accommodate 10-abreast seating in economy class.

Further, Boeing and General Electric are exploring ways to introduce GEnx engine technology into the GE90, which is exclusively available on the 777 family.

"What we'll do on the 777 is continue to improve airplane we have," said James Albaugh, Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO, "But we also have some major upgrades we could do in the event that we have to respond to a move by the competition."

In the longer term, Boeing vice president of sales Marlin Dailey, says longer-term improvements to the 777 including examining the "up-gauging" or stretching the fuselage, though the conceptual 777-9X and 777-8X, available early next decade.

Industry sources said the -9X would be an additional stretch to the 777-300ER, while the -8X would be an shrink of the 365-seat jet.

Conceptually the 777-8X and -9X would allow Boeing to span the products between the conceptual 290 to 330-seat 787-10X and 467-seat 747-8.



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineStickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 759 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Boeing has also been mumbling about retiring the 77L and 77W and develop a new 777-8X and 777-9X

Good choice of words Stitch as it indicates that Boeing are only vaguely floating the idea at this point in time and fully expect to be updating the 77L & 77W. I think they were also just mumbling about launching the 797 up until 24 hours ago - albeit mumbling a bit louder.


Regards,
StickShaker


User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5419 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 3):
Given the turmoil for Boeing atm, they might be better off with incremental improvements to the 77W along with the GE9X. I don't think they have the resources to do a clean sheet given all the other stuff on their plate.

The 787-8 & 747-8 are just about ready for delivery, the 787-9 has all the -8 groundwork and history to work off of and 737RE will likely move ahead and not be such a significant effort when compared to an all new NB. I would say quite the opposite -- Boeing should indeed have resources to work on both the 787-10 and the 777NG, especially since the 777 is a very mature platform and well known entity.



Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5371 times:
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Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 3):
Given the turmoil for Boeing atm, they might be better off with incremental improvements to the 77W along with the GE9X. I don't think they have the resources to do a clean sheet given all the other stuff on their plate.

I might have been a bit cavalier in my referring to the 777-8X and 777-9X as "new". I fully expect both airframes to heavily leverage the existing 777 family technology. I'd think of them more like what Boeing did to create the 747-400 or the 747-8 then an all-new "clean sheet" design.


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2361 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
The 787-10X won't enter service until the second half of this decade.

I'm kinda wondering about the gap here. The 772ER becomes obsolete when the A359 hits the market. What would the gap be between the A359 and 7810? And would Boeing let cusomers convert their orders? Or go with a gap for a few years, assuming they aren't upgrading the 772ER?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Boeing has also been mumbling about retiring the 77L and 77W and develop a new 777-8X and 777-9X, the former slotting in between the 77L and 77W and the second being longer than the 77W.

If they did this, wouldn't that invalidate a lot of investment on the freighter? Would they make another freighter? And would the -8X and -9X work just like the 77L/77W combo? (Range with less capacity/Capacity with less range)


User currently onlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4993 posts, RR: 41
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4831 times:
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Quoting ytz (Reply 8):
The 772ER becomes obsolete when the A359 hits the market

It is hardly selling anymore now. The vast majority of the sales already goes to the A330-HGW version and of course the B787-9 & A350-900. There is a reason that premium airlines like i.e. SQ are replacing/have replaced the B772-ER with the A330-300HGW.  

So the B787-10X and the B777-NG are like Stitch has stated quite a number of years away. Even the A350-1000, a project in a further mature state then the mentioned projects from Boeing, is still 6 years away from now.  .

[Edited 2011-07-22 07:05:46]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4604 times:
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Quoting ytz (Reply 8):
What would the gap be between the A359 and 7810?

The 787-10 will carry more passengers and cargo (at least by volume) than the A350-900, but it will not fly as far.

As EPA001 notes, the 777-200ER has been supplanted by the 777-200LR (it costs little more to purchase and evidently is cheaper to operate). So the 777-200LR will "hold the fort" until the 787-10X and the 777+ / 777X are available.


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