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Should Spirit Make A Play For F9 Or B6?  
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

With a pile of cash, should Spirit consider making a play for Frontier, Allegiant or even JetBlue? Or should they stay the steady course and grow organically?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7031 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

Won't happen. NK's owners want to sell, not buy. They only floated a minority share.

User currently offlineflyboynk From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5124 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
Won't happen. NK's owners want to sell, not buy....

Are you sure of that???

You'll see Spirit merge or buy someone before they are sold... and within the next 5 to 7 years I predict A330's flying to Europe and South America combined with an A320 family fleet size of 80 to 90 aircraft (non merge standalone) and 150-200 airframes merged or buying another airline(s) ...



Flyboynk
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5104 times:

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
With a pile of cash, should Spirit consider making a play for Frontier, Allegiant or even JetBlue? Or should they stay the steady course and grow organically?

Spirit only has $345 million in cash. They couldn't afford B6. Their market cap is about $1.4 billion.

While F9 was purchased relatively cheap by Republic, that was when F9 was in bankruptcy. They'd likely have to burn all their cash to purchase and I just don't see that happening because they would need more money to pay the transitioning costs, etc.

Spirit did their IPO in order to grow on their own. They are receiving some 30 odd planes over the next 3 and a half years. I think they are fine by themselves.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Here we go again...  

These are getting really, really silly. Yes, we've seen a ton of mergers lately. No, this doesn't make every carrier a logical, likely, or even halfway sensible merger candidate for every other carrier.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4685 times:

The overnight change that would have to occur at the acquired carrier in terms of product and culture would probably prevent any such deal. Can you imagine working for B6 and the next day is Day One after the certificates are merged, and suddenly you are having to enforce the NK business model? Better yet, can you see how the customers would react? I'm not faulting NK or their business model. They have a niche and are making it work. Organic growth would be better for them. Had Skybus made it, that might have been a good acquisition. There will be others who try to copy the Ryanair model is the USA in the future. Those carriers will consolidate eventually.

User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

What NK owners should be doing is speaking with U2's Stelios & Co. by now and negotiate making NK into U2 Americas.   


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3381 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 3):
They couldn't afford B6. Their market cap is about $1.4 billion.

Well that depends how shares are distibuted. NK would need $750MM to acquire 50%+1 to gain control.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 5):
Better yet, can you see how the customers would react?

B6 has one of the strongest brands in U.S. Aviation. They are used to large seat pitch, reclining seats, free overhead bins, free 1st checked bag, snacks, drinks, IFE, and continually demand MORE. Going down to NK's product would not be received well by loyal B6 customers.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 3):
They couldn't afford B6.

  

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 4):
Here we go again...

Agreed:




"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Why would Spirit want to buy an airline with higher costs?

David


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3381 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 8):
B6 has one of the strongest brands in U.S. Aviation. They are used to large seat pitch, reclining seats, free overhead bins, free 1st checked bag, snacks, drinks, IFE, and continually demand MORE. Going down to NK's product would not be received well by loyal B6 customers.

If anything I see B6 making a play for NK. Although I don't know how many shares Oak & Indigo held back from the IPO



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinehomsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

Maybe Spirit will buy AS?   


I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15714 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 2):
Are you sure of that???

If they're smart they will. It's only a matter of time before something happens and the airline business isn't so hot anymore. Better to get out with your money, or even a profit, while you can.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Why would NK want to buy? They are successful as it is, I am all for expanding, but I still think it is a little early. Anyways, why would they want to buy an airline like F9, I thought they were not doing well financially.

Thank you for all answers/comments,

laxboeingman



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7031 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3078 times:

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
Won't happen. NK's owners want to sell, not buy....
Are you sure of that???
You'll see Spirit merge or buy someone before they are sold... and within the next 5 to 7 years I predict A330's flying to Europe and South America combined with an A320 family fleet size of 80 to 90 aircraft (non merge standalone) and 150-200 airframes merged or buying another airline(s) ...
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
Quoting flyboynk (Reply 2):
Are you sure of that???
If they're smart they will. It's only a matter of time before something happens and the airline business isn't so hot anymore. Better to get out with your money, or even a profit, while you can.

I am sure of that. The owners want a "quick" buck. Unfortunately, that buck hasn't come so quick. I don't disagree with the A330s aspirations. I think they have considered that.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3029 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 3):
Spirit only has $345 million in cash. They couldn't afford B6. Their market cap is about $1.4 billion.

Spirit is owned largely by Oaktree and Indigo Partners, the latter which also owns parts of Volaris and Wizz Air, among others. They most definitely can afford JetBlue. Heck, they can probably afford AMR.



a.
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 647 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting homsar (Reply 11):
Maybe Spirit will buy AS?   

How dare you
  


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3113 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Agreed, the idea of AS & NK in the same thought, ever is the worst "fightin words" ever laid down. UUGGHHH


AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2884 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 3):
Spirit did their IPO in order to grow on their own. They are receiving some 30 odd planes over the next 3 and a half years. I think they are fine by themselves.

This is exactly what i think.

Spirit has low costs they can/should just keep growing with this same model. Spirit has a ton of cash for how small an airline they are but to buy someone is a different ball game especially if that airline is larger. Spirit claims themselves they fly NO money loosing routes so i doubt an airline like Frontier with MKE and DEN hubs looks interesting or attractive at all to them. Jetblue is too large and is really a very different product. Spirit is picking markets that are heavy on competition like ORD, LAX, and LAS so they clearly think they can steal market share so growing themselves i think makes the most sense. Everyone on here is so use to mergers now but the best partners it seems like have already found each other and the ones remaining all have major problems. It will be interesting to see if anymore decide to merge but i think Spirit, Alaska, and Allegiant are all pretty low on the likely list.


User currently offlineflyboynk From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
I am sure of that. The owners want a "quick" buck. Unfortunately, that buck hasn't come so quick. I don't disagree with the A330s aspirations. I think they have considered that.

Actually, the owners "had" planned to sell a few years back... but with the IPO, company now public and a very strong balance sheet basically everything financial, that plan to "sell" has changed considerably. Thus my sarcastic "are you sure" because the talk in the company (which I work for so no guessing on my part) is of growth and expansion in ways that may surprise many in the long run. Overall, NK is getting stronger especially considering the price of fuel to months, years past.
To sell, the owners would have to be looking for a very good ROI, not just a quick buck. And yes, it is a fact that A330's have been looked into in the past few years and currently for future growth.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Spirit is owned largely by Oaktree and Indigo Partners, the latter which also owns parts of Volaris and Wizz Air, among others. They most definitely can afford JetBlue. Heck, they can probably afford AMR.

Indigo Partners is the majority owner, followed by Oaktree and Goldman Sachs... The parent owner is Indigo Partners is TPG (Texas Pacific Group) between them (TPG and Indigo) I believe they own over 15 airlines worldwide. Yes MAH4546 is correct 100% the NK could definitely afford JetBlue and even AMR among others. An airline that is generating income, huge profits in terms of actual $$$ and income related to fleet size (only 35 aircraft as of today) NK may be a surprise player in future mergers, acquiring other airlines or quite simply stay alone and continue to grow and be profitable. There are "many" domestic and Int'l markets NK could serve in the future and applying it's current business model (not syaing it works for everyone but from a business standpoint it works very well) be just as sucessful if not more...

I know many people do not like flying on NK, while many do enjoy it, other do it for necessity... in the end it's in the business to make money and it does that very well.



Flyboynk
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 8):

Agreed if anything i think B6 should buy them why this stuff keep coming up i am getting a migrane



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 20):

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 8):

Agreed if anything i think B6 should buy them why this stuff keep coming up i am getting a migrane


Spirit is the wealthier party. If anything, Spirit would be the buyer.



a.
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Spirit is the wealthier party. If anything, Spirit would be the buyer.

i strongly disagree with you its my opinion that the merge wont happen if anything spirit would buy Frontier sense republic looking to spin that off i dont see B6 merging now at least if not later like 5-10 years but jetBlue would be the final name in any merger



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 22):
Spirit is the wealthier party. If anything, Spirit would be the buyer.

i strongly disagree with you its my opinion that the merge wont happen if anything spirit would buy Frontier sense republic looking to spin that off i dont see B6 merging now at least if not later like 5-10 years but jetBlue would be the final name in any merger

You can't disagree on a fact. Spirit is the wealthier party. Spirit would be the purchasing carrier.

I never said anything about the two merging. I expressed no opinion as to whether they two will merge. I do not believe they will merge. AA and B6 will marry in due time.



a.
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1302 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

How is each airline's wealth measured? Stock price? Value of slots? Cash on hand? Aircraft ownership? Is Spirit wealthier than JetBlue or Republic Airways Holdings?


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
25 georgewall42 : It's not hard to look some of this stuff up: Spirit Airlines: $941M market cap, $830M revenue, $63M cash, $362M debt JetBlue: $1.42B market cap, $4.1B
26 enilria : If earnings continue upward and the stock goes up, the owners will simply unload more stock into the free float, thus extracting cash for their inves
27 Blueman87 : i said it wrong sorry i ment i disagree with you on the merger not spirit being wealthy
28 bjorn14 : Correct. Virtually all VC/PE firms are not in the business of running businesses. They see them as paper transactions. Period.
29 LAXintl : You might want to review your numbers based on their Q2 earnings. Cash was $346.9mil Debt - $0 yes Zero debt on balance sheet.
30 Post contains links Blueman87 : i dont think this will ever happen AA cant make a profit atleast what we looking at B6 would not merge with AA till there making money because there
31 Santi319 : Did anyone noticed their shares lately?? Wow!!!
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