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When Does UA/CO Get Their Single Operating Certifi  
User currently offlinevulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 525 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

Just wondering if anyone knows anything about when UA/CO will have their single operating certificate? I know the deal was closed on October 1, 2010.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

I seem to remember they are aiming for December-ish.

I'm probably wrong on that though.



No info
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

Quoting vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
Just wondering if anyone knows anything about when UA/CO will have their single operating certificate? I know the deal was closed on October 1, 2010.

Original goal was 11/11/11 but I think that has slipped to first quarter of next year.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5259 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 2):
Original goal was 11/11/11 but I think that has slipped to first quarter of next year.

How does it work? What for example can delay it?


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
How does it work? What for example can delay it?

Anything can really delay it UA and CO have to create, roll out and train their employees in common policies/procedures maintenance standards ect. Basically they have to prove to the FAA that they are capable of operating as one carrier safely.

The reason for the current delay, from what I understand, is that originally they were simply going to migrate UA from Apollo over to Sabre which is the current CO reservation system. After the merger the IT department decided to keep UAs front end system (FastAir/FastRes) which functions as a user interface for Apollo. Small problem is that FastAir/Res won't work directly with Saber so they are having to design and implement middle ware so that it will work with the new platform.

[Edited 2011-07-30 14:20:01]


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5144 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
Sabre which is the current CO reservation system

CO's res system is Sonic...


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5127 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
FastAir/Res won't work directly with Saber so they are having to design and implement middle ware so that it will work with the new platform.
Quoting tsnamm (Reply 5):
CO's res system is Sonic...

tsnamm's correction makes sense, as when I worked at YX, we were on Sabre but used FastAir as the user interface. If CO was on Sabre, they wouldn't have issues converting FastAir to work on Sabre as it's been done before.

However, if CO uses a different system as tsnamm says, I can see that being an issue having to reprogram FastAir



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5083 times:

CO uses SHARES/A hosted by EDS. US and several others are on SHARES/B. IIRC, the res system wouldn't delay SOC. DL and NW combined before NW PARS was shutdown.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 6):
tsnamm's correction makes sense, as when I worked at YX, we were on Sabre but used FastAir as the user interface. If CO was on Sabre, they wouldn't have issues converting FastAir to work on Sabre as it's been done before.

However, if CO uses a different system as tsnamm says, I can see that being an issue having to reprogram FastAir

Sorry I meant shares not saber....CO uses Sonic/Shares UA uses FastAir/Apollo. The combined company is moving to FastAir/Shares.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

The SOC is contingent upon the operational functions of the company being FAA approved as a single carrier. This involves Maintenance, Flight operations, in flight and airport operations ALL working from the same set of FAA approved manuals and policies. Not an easy task as the need to write the new rules, train and check for compliance. Each change must be approved by the FAA. All this takes time and my guess is SOC in the early spring.

User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1223 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Quoting vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
Just wondering if anyone knows anything about when UA/CO will have their single operating certificate? I know the deal was closed on October 1, 2010.

Will they have a single AOC? I have not heard anyone confirm that yet. US Airways have multiple callsign still... Multiple AOC:s maybe?

There could be arguments to keep the CO AOC alongside the UA.



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting Navigator (Reply 10):
US Airways have multiple callsign still...

US Airways has one callsign (Cactus). They are one AOC (US AIrways).



Good goes around!
User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Quoting N801NW (Reply 7):
CO uses SHARES/A hosted by EDS

Shares A is the mainframe which supports Sonic the passenger reservation system, Cargotrac the cargo reservation system and FOMS the load plax system...the res system is Sonic


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 941 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

Quoting Navigator (Reply 10):
There could be arguments to keep the CO AOC alongside the UA.

As I recall, you've got that backwards. That is, it's CO's AOC that will be kept and UA's flight operations will be placed on CO's certificate. Of course, the name will be changed to United.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 13):
That is, it's CO's AOC that will be kept and UA's flight operations will be placed on CO's certificate. Of course, the name will be changed to United.

That's correct PMCOs AOC will be kept and PMUAs will be turned in. PMCOs certificate is written closer to FAA standard language vs PMUAs which was highly customized. UA will file for an amended certificate immediately and change the name to UA. Actually its kind of cool that they are keeping PMCOs around IIRC it's the oldest one out there...even though PMUA is an older company the certificate is a "new" one from the 50's.

PUMAs Maintenance and Repair Certificate will be kept and PMCOs turned in as PMUA has quite a bit more MTC/MRO authorizations than PMCOs does.

[Edited 2011-07-31 22:59:58]


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2309 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
That's correct PMCOs AOC will be kept and PMUAs will be turned in. PMCOs certificate is written closer to FAA standard language vs PMUAs which was highly customized. UA will file for an amended certificate immediately and change the name to UA. Actually its kind of cool that they are keeping PMCOs around IIRC it's the oldest one out there...even though PMUA is an older company the certificate is a "new" one from the 50's.

PUMAs Maintenance and Repair Certificate will be kept and PMCOs turned in as PMUA has quite a bit more MTC/MRO authorizations than PMCOs does.

Are the actual AOC available online for viewing somewhere?



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 15):
Are the actual AOC available online for viewing somewhere?

I don't know...you would probably have to poke around the FAAs website.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinepdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1118 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Which customer code will Boeing assign to UA deliveries once they obtain the Single Operating Certificate?

Does Boeing assign customer codes to the carrier placing the order, regardless whether the carrier still exists by the time the actual delivery is made? Both UA and CO have outstanding orders with Boeing. UA has ordered the 787-8, while CO has ordered the 787-8, the 787-9, along with outstanding 737NG's.

Will Boeing deliver 787's ordered by UA with the "22" code and those ordered by CO with the "24" code, despite the fact UA will be operating with a SOC by the time the deliveries are made? Presumably, all the deliveries will be identical? Same interior, options, engines, etc?


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