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DL Brazil Schedule Expansion  
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

DTW-GRU to go daily effective Dec 19
ATL-BSB to go daily effective Dec 12

Source?
Grapevine.

DTW-GRU has been heavily underestimated by a.net "experts". I don't know if there is another DL strategy behind it. (placeholder etc.).

[Edited 2011-07-31 11:55:22]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

That's terrific, hope it's true. Any idea where the extra GRU frequencies come from? I've not kept up with all the tit for tat on how the slots work between GRU and anything non-GRU, etc.


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

What about rumors of ATL-CNF and MIA-GRU?

User currently offlinepremobrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6937 times:

No need for the grapevine....Delta dropped a press release about it on Friday....

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1419



Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

Quoting peanuts (Thread starter):
DTW-GRU has been heavily underestimated by a.net "experts".

I think DTW itself has nothing to do with the success of the route. My guess is DTW local traffic is practically zero on this route. Actually i wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of the traffic on this route is bound for Florida, mainly MCO and MIA. The only reason this route works is because DTW has enough connecting flights throughout the day to funnel people into Detroit and fill up the aircraft.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6891 times:

Quoting peanuts (Thread starter):
DTW-GRU has been heavily underestimated by a.net "experts"

I've always thought this would be decent given the local high yield auto traffic as well as the solid hub and Asian connectivity.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
My guess is DTW local traffic is practically zero on this route.

There's actually a solid, growing local market, unlike the umpteen other Brazil combinations DL has tried before it settled on DTWGRU.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6750 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
Actually i wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of the traffic on this route is bound for Florida, mainly MCO and MIA. The only reason this route works is because DTW has enough connecting flights throughout the day to funnel people into Detroit and fill up the aircraft.

Why on earth would passengers (either way), bound for GRU connect via DTW from Florida when there are many more local options. And like wise, why would any Florida bound pax connect all the way in DTW? And if it I understand you correctly, you are saying DTW-GRU works because the passengers are bound for MIA or MCO....



Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6751 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Quoting peanuts (Thread starter):DTW-GRU has been heavily underestimated by a.net "experts"
I've always thought this would be decent given the local high yield auto traffic as well as the solid hub and Asian connectivity.

Indeed. There was, however, a group of mostly Brazilian a.netters who just couldn't wrap their heads around DTW-GRU, and spoke about it as though they wanted the route to fail.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

Quoting peanuts (Thread starter):
DTW-GRU to go daily effective Dec 19
ATL-BSB to go daily effective Dec 12

Source?
Grapevine.

There was no need for grapevine or press releases. DOT documents would suffice. Those infos have been public including here on A.net for months.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Quoting peanuts (Thread starter):
DTW-GRU to go daily effective Dec 19
Quoting breaker1011 (Reply 1):
That's terrific, hope it's true. Any idea where the extra GRU frequencies come from?

As I recall, the DOT awarded DL extra Brazil frequencies in mid May, effective 15DEC11. They asked for 2 additional GIG frequencies to use on ATL-GIG so that they could re-allocate two unrestricted frequencies from ATL-GIG to DTW-GRU and increase it to daily. They got what they asked for so that must be how they are doing this.

I believe that Delta also asked for (and were given) another 7x weekly restricted frequencies that they said they wanted for a new daily ATL-MAO (Manaus) route, effective 18DEC11. What happened to that? Have they gone cold on the idea?



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6386 times:
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Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
I think DTW itself has nothing to do with the success of the route. My guess is DTW local traffic is practically zero on this route. Actually i wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of the traffic on this route is bound for Florida, mainly MCO and MIA. The only reason this route works is because DTW has enough connecting flights throughout the day to funnel people into Detroit and fill up the aircraft.

Most of the Brazilian Car industry is in the state of Sao Paulo, General Motors and Ford have plants down there. DTW to GRU traffic from Detroit is more the zero, probably 20 passengers a day on your average day. Delta fills teh plane with people going to all kinds of US destinations, New York fare bargain hunters would be one type to fill the plane & DL has nonstop GRU to JFK. Brazilians going to California would be another big destination over DTW. Floridians are probably not a large group but given the huge numbers from Brazil to Miami & MCO they have to be a group too big to be ignorned. Happy GRU-DTW-MIA travels to you all.


User currently offlinecubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
There's actually a solid, growing local market, unlike the umpteen other Brazil combinations DL has tried before it settled on DTWGRU.

  

But in fairness to DL, some of that was merger timing related. At the time they started LAX-GRU, it probably made more sense for (PM)DL.

It's going to be interesting to me to see whether this affects ORD-GRU on UA at all; I think the upper midwest can probably support two daily Brasil flights, but I'm not one hundred percent sure. I think DTW-GRU will probably successfully stay daily.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
My guess is DTW local traffic is practically zero on this route.

Not sure about that. There is the automobile industry. Brazil is one of the hottest markets at the moment, and both Ford and General Motors have large operations in Brazil. While Chrysler is not a relevant player in Brazil, FIAT is, and as FIAT and Chrysler become more streamlined and Chrysler approaches to complete its milestone of launching a very fuel efficient subcompact, perhaps we will see more cooperation between the Chrysler headquarters in Michigan and FIAT's Brazilian subsidiary.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
i wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of the traffic on this route is bound for Florida, mainly MCO and MIA

That does not make sense. A lot of backtracking. Those passengers would fly JJ or AA non-stop. In case they flew with DL, they'd fly via ATL, but not DTW. I would say Asian connections may play an important part in the success of DL's DTW-GRU.

While unrelated to this topic, I could not help notice that DL is adding a MSP-LIR service. I must say I am quite surprised. I wish DL luck with this new route. And I am happy for MSP... many pessimists have been wanting to announce the early death of MSP as a true DL hub and this goes to show that is not the case.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
While unrelated to this topic, I could not help notice that DL is adding a MSP-LIR service. I must say I am quite surprised. I wish DL luck with this new route. And I am happy for MSP... many pessimists have been wanting to announce the early death of MSP as a true DL hub and this goes to show that is not the case.

Interesting huh? I couldn't help but notice myself that this seemed like a long, thin route at over 2400 miles. Then again, it is only operating on Saturdays, but so did Delta's BNA-CUN. Is this route doomed from the start? Or will people be flying MCO/MIA-MSP-LIR as some might try to suggest?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

Haha, well, clearly it is one of those things DL does to improve its aircraft utilization factor. Most likely, there is a surplus of 738s on Saturdays because frequencies in key business routes drop dramatically on Saturdays, so this is probably an action in coordination with travel agencies that offer weekly packages to Costa Rica or something.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5993 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

DL will run on the IATA winter, for the first time, 3 flights to Brazil with 764

ATL-GIG - From Oct/30
ATL-GRU
JFK-GRU - From Dec/10

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
Most of the Brazilian Car industry is in the state of Sao Paulo, General Motors and Ford have plants down there. DTW to GRU traffic from Detroit is more the zero, probably 20 passengers a day on your average day. Delta fills teh plane with people going to all kinds of US destinations, New York fare bargain hunters would be one type to fill the plane & DL has nonstop GRU to JFK. Brazilians going to California would be another big destination over DTW. Floridians are probably not a large group but given the huge numbers from Brazil to Miami & MCO they have to be a group too big to be ignorned. Happy GRU-DTW-MIA travels to you all.

You said it all. This flight take full advantage of the Brazilian demand right now. Last week was almost impossible to find seats to Brazil but mostly Brazilians look to a few markets: Miami, Orlando, New York, Boston, Las Vegas and San Francisco are the top ones. CLT, DFW, ORD, DTW, all take advantage of connections.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):

Not sure about that. There is the automobile industry

It's not all in Detroit. GM Finance area is located in New York, suppliers are outside of Detroit area in general. Detroit is a small market right now, one of the most decadent metro areas in the USA.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 2):
What about rumors of ATL-CNF and MIA-GRU?

They can't run MIA-GRU. They now have just 3 GRU frequencies on ATL-GIG but there's no position available on GRU for an aircraft the entire day, unless they try something like MIA-GRU daylight departing 2 PM and GRU-MIA 2 AM departure.
ATL-CNF is the rumor that can become true in the near future. But it could be just a tag this year.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinecubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Detroit is a small market right now, one of the most decadent metro areas in the USA.

What makes you say that? Obviously not the fact that DTW continues to support service to a variety of destinations unparalleled among cities similar in size to it (BOS, SFO, ONT, PHX, SEA).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5744 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting cubsrule (Reply 16):
What makes you say that? Obviously not the fact that DTW continues to support service to a variety of destinations unparalleled among cities similar in size to it (BOS, SFO, ONT, PHX, SEA).

Because they have a hub, probably, Cubsrule.
Just look into housing market, unemployment rate, poppulation growth. That's why i said that. It's one of the cheap places to buy a house, hard to find a job and people know that and that's why it lost more than 20% of poppulation in 10 years.
DL manages a very large hub out there, and as they do not cover Chicago, it is their main hub in the area.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2629 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
They can't run MIA-GRU. They now have just 3 GRU frequencies on ATL-GIG but there's no position available on GRU for an aircraft the entire day

Unless they dare trying VCP.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineDanVS From Brazil, joined Jul 2009, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):

Unless they dare trying VCP.

I've heard that VCP is not taking more international flights for the moment.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
Unless they dare trying VCP.

Delta only holds 5 VCP-eligible frequencies that are not being used at GRU right now, so Delta couldn't fly to VCP daily.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4857 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
DL will run on the IATA winter, for the first time, 3 flights to Brazil with 764

ATL-GIG - From Oct/30
ATL-GRU
JFK-GRU - From Dec/10

Actually, that won't be the case. The 764 will be used on ATL-GIG / EZE / SCL starting this fall, when both JFK-GRU and ATL-GRU will revert to the 763ER. The 764 comes back to ATL-GRU and JFK-GRU starting December 11, while both ATL-GIG and ATL-EZE go back to the 763ER for the winter. Only ATL-SCL remains a 764 through the fall and winter so far.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Detroit is a small market right now, one of the most decadent metro areas in the USA.

There's more to business traffic than what meets the eye. It's not only GM and Ford that generate DTW-GRU traffic.

My sister, who works for Banco Mercedes (Daimler financial arm in Brazil), is going to Detroit in Sept. It will be her 2nd DTW J flight in less than 6 months.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):
I couldn't help but notice myself that this seemed like a long, thin route at over 2400 miles. Then again, it is only operating on Saturdays

NW ran it prior to the merger (Sat. only as well)... No idea on how well it performed, though...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Detroit is a small market right now, one of the most decadent metro areas in the USA.

DTW proper might be a wasteland, but some of the surrounding areas are doing quite well.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinecubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Because they have a hub, probably, Cubsrule.

SFO, PHX and SEA all have hubs, do they not?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 EricR : SFO has much more of a variety of international destinations than DTW. Metro SEA has one million less people than DTW and the AS hub in SEA does not
26 cubsrule : International, sure. But overall, DTW has many more destinations overall. As you say, it's as much geography as anything else - but to pretend that a
27 jfk777 : The two main reason why Delta purchased NW are Asia & DTW. Asia speaks for itself. Whatever the city of Detroit's amd Michigan's problems those f
28 LipeGIG : This is changing quickly. I checked last week and ATL-GIG was 764 for January. Now it seems the change is just for a few weeks. And i do not understa
29 Post contains links EricR : Before I get into the details, I just want to add that I do not believe the DTW hub in jeopardy of reductions, but I am just illustrating the poor sh
30 cubsrule : I don't disagree. I do disagree with the entirely incorrect implication that nothing is going right in metro Detroit. Ford, Toyota and Pfizer, among
31 yowgangsta : I'm sure there are plenty of Canadian pax that would help fill the plane. As a Canadian relying on AC, we have only one flight (YYZ-GRU) to choose fro
32 MAV88 : BOS is a completely different story. BOS does not have a true hub carrier like SFO, SEA and PHX do. Of course DTW is going to have a better variety o
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