flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12955 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 10): Not really. CAK is sandwiched virtually halfway between existing WN stations in CLE and PIT.
So? Just leverages WN in that entire area. WN also flies into CMH. Why not say DAY could be on the chopping block because it's between IND and CMH?
With AirTran picking up CAK-MKE (for now), I think it will stay. CAK has an amazing following and they would have no problems filling flights without sacrificing yields and it is cheaper then running more flights into CLE.
celltower From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 8 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12763 times:
With the recent NK pulldown at ACY, and now FL/WN pulling out, ACY has some big problems. I can't think of anyone that would even begin to pick up the slack there. If NK can't stimulate the market with their infamous barebones fares, who can??
N471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12629 times:
Actually we here in the San Fran Bay Area have WN at all three of our major airports----which are in close proximity to each other and WN is at Sacramento as well-----again my guess is that CAK is too good a market to give up....
I listed ROC because WN doesn't already fly there but they do fly to BUF, which is only 73 miles away.
I listed DAY because WN doesn't already fly there but they do fly to IND and CMH. CMH is only 71 miles away.
I listed PWM simply because it's not that big of a market. WN currently doesn'y fly to PWM, but they do fly to MHT and BOS.
I listed LEX because WN doesn't fly there, but they do fly to SDF, which is 75 miles down the road.
I listed HSV because it is not a huge market. WN doesn't fly there already and BNA and BHM are right down the road and are relatively big WN cities.
I feel most of the smaller cities that FL flies to that are already close to WN served cities should be concerned. Some are large enough and geographically unique to be fine, but others might simply be a distraction and waste of resources for WN.
A look at WN's current route map might give us clues. They tend to spread their cities out so they can make the most of each market and pull from large catchment areas.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12506 times:
This is similar in how WN discontinued (or never served) COS, EUG, or FAT following their acquisition of Morris Air. That was, I believe, the beginning of the transition to not take up mid-size markets (like their existing AMA, MAF, CRP) and focus instead on the larger margets. Yes, they needed to do that, but also leaving some potential on the table. COS, EUG, and FAT were stimulated by Morris Air, and would have enjoyed WN service.
rl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12484 times:
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 18): I listed ROC because WN doesn't already fly there but they do fly to BUF, which is only 73 miles away.
ROC is an entirely different market than BUF, no decent minded business traveler would fly into BUF for a meeting in downtown Rochester, WN would be leaving money on the table there along with handing over a decent Florida market (well served by FL now) to someone like B6.
ROC is actually a case where I think WN could be bigger than FL was, with something like 2x MDW 3x BWI 2x ATL 1x MCO 1x TPA or FLL or 2nd MCO for a total of 8x.
DAY is a similar case but to a lesser extent.
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 18): A look at WN's current route map might give us clues. They tend to spread their cities out so they can make the most of each market and pull from large catchment areas
Thats not so much the case anymore though, with regions having multiple cities and also some smaller cities being served such as GSP and CHS. GSP is in the same boat as a LEX HSV and PWM really.
For leisure service the 75 mile argument works, but they wont get the business traveler which is WN's focus.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12414 times:
Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 21): Thats not so much the case anymore though, with regions having multiple cities and also some smaller cities being served such as GSP and CHS. GSP is in the same boat as a LEX HSV and PWM really.
Yes and no, and I knew someone would mention South Carolina. Outside of Southern California, New England and the San Francsico Bay area, it is still kind of the case. Look at how WN's cities are spread out on their route map.
WN likes big markets where they can put in a bunch of flights. I know ROC and BUF are two different markets, but does WN want ROC? Probably, but WN will be making tough decisions about where they want to fight and put precious resources.
These markets that have been announced as closing - why wasn't WN there to begin with?
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
25 kingcavalier: If the subsidy stays then, like BKG, I think ICT will stay. Are the folks in ICT watching what happens closely? You bet.
26 cubsrule: Just out of curiosity, why didn't you include TYS on your list? I think it is actually the best analog to GSP.
27 rl757pvd: Its not like there are scarce resources with this merger, there are already airplanes flying there and no planes are getting parked. Any cutting is g
28 FWAERJ: Yes, Morris Air served ANC. WN axed it. You would be surprised at what I have found in my area. A surprising amount of FWA-area business travelers ma
29 kingcavalier: I didn't say scarce. You did. I said precious. It is a business and planes/cities/routes cost money. Money is precious to any business.
30 enilria: CLT will stay, I'd bet it even grows. My memory is that the ICT subsidy was recently extended for 12 more months. I'd put ICT and DSM in the same cat
31 kingcavalier: It's too bad for AVL, PHF, ACY and MLI. But I still feel any close in cities or real small markets are at risk of losing out in this merger. And I sti
32 rl757pvd: Same difference in this context... WN has already been reducing service at nearly every existing WN market since 2005, and those reductions have gone
33 kingcavalier: I think it's all about ATL and connecting it to existing WN markets.
34 kingcavalier: No it isn't. WN isn't in business to lose money. Scarce is not precious. Precious is about making the smartest decisions with your resources.
35 rl757pvd: Fine, take my exact words and swap thw words out, the point remains the same in what i said....
36 Nutsaboutplanes: That is exactly what I was thinking. Does anybody have any information on this?
37 rl757pvd: I would guess much of this is the removing of aircraft from service to transition them over to WN... that will probably take out anywhere between 6-1
38 kingcavalier: If resources weren't precious then AVL, ACK, MLI and PHF would not close. Simple as that. What markets that were profitable (or marginally profitable)
39 WWTRAVELER99: How about before, during or after this weeks earnings call? Is that early enough? Does anyone know how many aircraft were used to serve the cities th
40 smoot4208: PHF simply doesn't work with WN having ORF. I would bet you are correct on the other 3 cities not being profitable for FL
41 enilria: I still don't think you will see any net expansion in ATL, maybe even contraction. Nope, but the fleet looks to be negative when coupled with the PHL
42 WWTRAVELER99: I have heard 7 planes at a time. Maybe the other planes will be used to increase their on-time percentage. They could add a couple of operational spa
43 MAH4546: Agreed. CLT will stay, and so will MIA. WN will grow in both those markets. Nothing extraordinary, but it will give them a presence. From both I coul
44 rl757pvd: The PHL reductions are WN aircraft, and WN aircraft picked up some FL- Florida routes in WN cities (like CMH-MCO) The Jan sched with WN was near flat
45 OzarkD9S: Doesn't FL fly 2-3 PHF-LGA's? This will free up a couple of LGA slots, and you can probably bet they aren't going to ORF. Also frees up some space in