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KLM And Runway 1R At SFO  
User currently offlinesfjeff From El Salvador, joined Dec 2009, 77 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5835 times:

I often planespot from Bayfront Park in Millbrae, just south of SFO. It's common to see 767s take off from 1R, but very rare to see anything larger use this runway, except for KLM. They seem to prefer this runway, which is 8648 feet long, while other airlines typically use 28R (11870 feet) or 28L (10602 feet) for anything larger than a 767. Aer Lingus used to use 1R at times with their 332s when they flew here, and I have seen UA use it a few times with 774s, but KLM uses it almost exclusively, with 772s and 77Ws during the summer, M11s during the winter, and they used to use it frequently with 774s when they flew them here. Does KLM have a company policy of using the closest practical runway to save fuel or time? Of course, for a planespotter, it's great to see a 77W start its takeoff roll from a few hundred feet away!


Jeff in San Salvador
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

I don't know their policy, but it sure is a great sight isn't it  


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineAirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
I don't know their policy, but it sure is a great sight isn't it

Even better, IMO, when they use 19L in the winter. Back when the observation area was still open at the foot of IR, I had the pleasure of having a KLM MD-11 take off and bank to the left no more than 150 ft. straight above me.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

Quoting sfjeff (Thread starter):
I often planespot from Bayfront Park in Millbrae, just south of SFO. It's common to see 767s take off from 1R, but very rare to see anything larger use this runway, except for KLM.

When I worked there, I have seen 767's and 744's use 1L--not a big deal if they are short to medium hops as in the case of UA, which may have had occasional short hops. I have sent out 763-ER's fully loaded, pax & heavy cargo, and watched them takeoff from 1L (7000') to JFK, so a 77W, M11, or 744 from 1R shouldn't be that difficult if there are tailwinds en route.
The weight data record tells the pilot which runways are allowed for takeoff, based upon the weight and balance, combined with the wind/temperature/runway altitude/slope of the runway, and obstacles. Temperatures/Winds at SFO these days are cool/windy, so no big deal unless the crosswind is strong as it sometimes gets in the afternnoon, then the option for all aircraft usually is 28L/R.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6086 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4653 times:

KLM does use 1R frequently. SFO-AMS is not an incredibly long flight for a 777/77W. You will also see UA evening departures to LHR/FRA use it. BA used it on their second flight tonight. Its a short taxi for airlines from the A-side. It also shaves a few minutes off the the flight. Even JL has been departing 1R occasionally and heading out over the city. With modern airliners, 8,600 ft of runway can get you a long way.


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4291 times:

sfjeff, have you been over to the spot near Signature Aviation on North Access Road? Great spot to watch A380 and other heavy departures! Sometimes, they rotate a little to the left of where you stand, great sight!

9V-SPJ


User currently offlinesfjeff From El Salvador, joined Dec 2009, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting 9V-SPJ (Reply 5):
have you been over to the spot near Signature Aviation on North Access Road

I have never been down this road. I'll have to check it out. Is there any place to park?

Quoting CV880 (Reply 3):
I have seen 767's and 744's use 1L
Quoting as739x (Reply 4):
You will also see UA evening departures to LHR/FRA use it. BA used it on their second flight tonight.

Thanks guys--I guess I have just not been there at the right time.



Jeff in San Salvador
User currently offlinejake712 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3936 times:

I've seen Air France A340s depart from 1R as well. I haven't done a whole lot of spotting there, but as others said, heavies seem to be a fairly common occurrence on 1R.


Jake
User currently offlinedartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3430 times:
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Interesting question, sorry I don't have any answers.

But I spent a good chunk of time at SFO yesterday awaiting my flight and did note that all heavies (including the UA 763s to IAD and HNL, as well as several 744s, 772s, 773s, and the LH 380) departed the 28s --- KL was indeed the only heavy in that period that departed from the 1s.

The OP is dead-on. Must be something to it...

I suspect only a pilot at KL can say for sure.


User currently offlinejfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

I agree and have ALWAYS wondered by the KLM 777-300 seems to always depart 1R since its rare to see any widebodies (with the exception of the domestic widebodies) depart 1R. I always assumed light loads, but then why bring in a 77W? I'm not a pilot, but I'm curious as to the reason

User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

Quoting sfjeff (Reply 6):
I have never been down this road. I'll have to check it out. Is there any place to park?

Yes, you won't miss it. Keep going on North Access past the coast guard station and there is a point where the road widens and you will see cars parked on the right hand side. You can park over there.

Have a look at this link: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=SFO&hl...&sspn=49.223579,93.076172&t=h&z=19

9V-SPJ


User currently offlinesfjeff From El Salvador, joined Dec 2009, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting 9V-SPJ (Reply 10):
Keep going on North Access

Thanks--I will check it out.



Jeff in San Salvador
User currently offlineN593HA From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting jfrworld (Reply 9):
I always assumed light loads, but then why bring in a 77W?

Light-loads? no, it appears to be KL's policy to use 1R for departure at SFO, when allow for this. In April 2008, I flew KL0605 SFO-AMS on a fully-loaded 744 (full-pax) and we also used 1R for departure.

Aloha
N593HA



Next trip: KL+NW to HNL
User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

I saw KL606 (operating as a 744 for the summer, of course) line up for departure on 1R today. It's funny, I was actually talking with someone at SFO today that KLM *always* seems to avoid the 28s when at all possible...


Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
User currently offlineN593HA From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting OH-LGA (Reply 13):
I saw KL606 (operating as a 744 for the summer, of course)

Not to criticize you, but the 744 took over only at the beginning of the month. Prior to that KL0605+0606 was operated by a mix of 77E and 77W since the beginning of the current summer schedule.

Aloha
N593HA



Next trip: KL+NW to HNL
User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting N593HA (Reply 14):
Not to criticize you, but the 744 took over only at the beginning of the month. Prior to that KL0605+0606 was operated by a mix of 77E and 77W since the beginning of the current summer schedule.

Well - as often as I'm in IT-A I never do seem to see KLM's plane at the gate. Sister AF A380 always seems to be hogging the limelight... seeing the KL 744 lining up for departure from the concourse was a lucky break. Thanks for the heads up.  



Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
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