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TWA Pilots Beat TWA Union Alpa  
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

i didnt see this posted but if it was you can delete here is the article
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...x-twa-pilots-win-lawsuit-agai.html

TWA screwed by there own people how could this happen?

[Edited 2011-08-01 12:51:16]

[Edited 2011-08-01 12:52:04]


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemeechy36 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

AA's pilot union is APA, they won from ALPA, the TWA pilot union.

mike


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Thread starter):
TWA Beat AA Union In Court In NJ

That is not what the article says. The article states that the ALPA did not properly represent the TWA pilots during the merger. This has nothing to do with the APA (the "AA union") or even AA at this point.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting meechy36 (Reply 1):
AA's pilot union is APA, they won from ALPA, the TWA pilot union.

my bad i misinterepted i will delete and rename



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3562 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Right. This case is about TWAs own union losing a case brought upon them by their own members.

Very significant and it has the potential to cost ALPA upwards of a billion dollars.

Stay Tuned...


User currently offlinestlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

The article states that they sued ALPA, APA, and AA. I wonder if they will now go after APA and AA for seniority rights and whatnot. I guess it all depends on what comes of the ALPA decision. Could this be another HP vs US?

User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

And ALPA is the same union that B6 pilots want???? If so, is ALPA a good union for pilots. I'm not familiar with pilot unions, well because I'm not a pilot but those that are I'd like to hear your opinion on them.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 6):

i hope B6 pilots change there mind



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 7):
i hope B6 pilots change there mind

I work for B6 and mostly everyone in every department are hoping this doesn't happen. Seems from talking to some of our pilots, the senior ones don't want it and the younger guys do. Don't wanna hijack the thread any further but since ALPA was being mentioned and this vote is going on I'd try and get some info.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 8):
I work for B6 and mostly everyone in every department are hoping this doesn't happen. Seems from talking to some of our pilots, the senior ones don't want it and the younger guys do. Don't wanna hijack the thread any further but since ALPA was being mentioned and this vote is going on I'd try and get some info.

i say B6 is doing good without a union i dont work for them or any airline you do so can correct me if i am worng they have a good Management to crew members relationship to me that what it seems so B6 might not need one



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Quoting stlAV8R (Reply 5):
Could this be another HP vs US?

Since the TWA debacle happened circa 2000, HP/US would be another one of these... though not exactly the same.

Basically, a union has to represent ALL of it's members to the fullest extent possible... which is precisely what ALPA didn't do, and USAPA isn't doing.

That being said, a situation like the TWA/AA merger can never happen again, per federal law.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4288 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 8):

I work for B6 and mostly everyone in every department are hoping this doesn't happen. Seems from talking to some of our pilots, the senior ones don't want it and the younger guys do. Don't wanna hijack the thread any further but since ALPA was being mentioned and this vote is going on I'd try and get some info.

Part of what may be happening at B6 is the fact that B6 has hired a lot of pilots in recent years from the regionals. Many of these guys being brought in were represented by ALPA at their regional carrier. Regional carriers aren't exactly known for going easy on their pilots. What I see at B6 is the fact that a lot of the pilots may not be trustful of management due to this and may fear that if they don't have ALPA on the property, the company could slowly get more and more out of them without giving anything back. You would think just the threat of ALPA would be enough to encourage B6 to be nice to the pilots.

On a sort of related note, I am hearing rumblings out of SGU that OO pilots aren't exactly pleased with their own management and may want union representation on their property. If OO ends up going ALPA, I believe that would actually force a single seniority list at OO and EV/ExpressJet. This is going to get interesting.

Quoting tugger (Reply 2):


That is not what the article says. The article states that the ALPA did not properly represent the TWA pilots during the merger. This has nothing to do with the APA (the "AA union") or even AA at this point.

How many non furloughed TW pilots are actually not at retirement age? That was a very senior workforce.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

This suit is a long way from being won by the pilots against ALPA. A judge first granted ALPA, AA, and the APA summary judgment, but that decision was appealed and reversed. Now a jury has decided in favor of the Plaintiffs and against ALPA. The verdict will certainly be appealed, and the amount of damages will either be lowered by the trial judge or reduced in a settlement. Sounds to me like a runaway jury. How did ALPA misrepresent their members? What should they have done after 9/11, gone on Strike? Now the flaming will start.

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2565 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Thread starter):
TWA screwed by there own people how could this happen?
Quoting tugger (Reply 2):
That is not what the article says. The article states that the ALPA did not properly represent the TWA pilots during the merger.

The problem came from the way the union chose to integrate its seniority list with that of AA. In airline unions today, the merger committee, made of two or three pilots chosen by the union leaders, negotiates with the merger committee from the other airline. Because of the way these mergers end up, if the rank & file were to vote on a proposed merger plan, it would never pass, since every pilot wants to put himself/herself in a better position. It is the job of the merger committee to negotiate a seniority list that best helps the positions & careers of the pilot group as a whole, not just one portion of it. Once the merger committees from the two airlines agree on a merged list, they sign it, and it becomes the new list. There's no vote allowed by the pilots or the union leaders.

The real problem comes when the members of the committee are chosen, who don't represent the pilot group as a whole, and only help themselves. That is what this lawsuit is about. The merger committee from TWA was represented by three of the most senior pilots on their list. They took the top half of the Captains, spread them evenly through the AA seniority list, and stapled the other 75% of the TWA pilots below the bottom AA new-hire. This was fine if you were a senior TWA Captain, but was not fair to the rest of the TWA group.

Yes, it was a case of one set of union members taking a dump on the rest. It's unfortunate, and as of today, it's also illegal with the advent of the McCaskill/Bond amendment which says that if you're from two different unions, you have to follow the Mohawk/Allegheny merger rules. That would have prevented what those senior TWA Captains did to the rest of the TWA pilots.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Sounds like typical greedy people interested on in their self interests.

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