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D.B Cooper Mystery Revived?  
User currently offlinedetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Looks like the FBI says they have a new promising lead. Interesting to know what this is all about.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/01/fbi.db.cooper/


Boiler Up!!!
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Interesting to know what this is all about.

Agreed. This story has always been interesting to me, and I'm really curious what happened to him. I doubt we'll ever know every detail, but...did he live, did he die right away, did he die a few days later? Very interesting.

My fiance had never heard of DB Cooper and I brought him up about 10 days ago for some various reason. Funny to see he's in the news today!


User currently offlinebe77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8402 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
My fiance had never heard of DB Cooper

Apparently not an A.nut.
Are you sure you're making a good decision  



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8286 times:

Don't worry. my wife keeps asking me "what Do I find interesting about this website"  

But at least she know about DB Cooper.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8147 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
my wife keeps asking me "what Do I find interesting about this website"

But at least she know about DB Cooper.

My wife asks me the same question about a.net and she knows who D.B. Cooper is, so I'm sure she'll be completely convinced I'm a nut case!  

It will be very interesting to learn what the FBI has been given as credible lead, if we'll ever know.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that he put his uniform back on, and rejoined the crew, and that another crew member walked off with the money as part of a well-executed plan.

With a bit of money and a parachute dropped out of the rear exit as a decoy.


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7990 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
This story has always been interesting to me, and I'm really curious what happened to him.

For me, it's one of the greatest crime and aviation events to occur. Inasmuch as we'd all like to know that DB survived and went on to live a life of luxury with his stolen loot in some faraway place, I had read on several occasions over the years that not a single Dollar of the money that was given to him during the hijacking has ever turned up in circulation. Which would indicate that he either didn't survive the drop, or that he cut the bags loose while he was parachuting down in order to slow his decent, and he was unable to find the money once he landed. And that, in turn, would explain why some of it turned up on the banks of the Columbia in 1980.

[Edited 2011-08-01 16:06:03]


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineauroralives From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7987 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
I'd bet my bottom dollar that he put his uniform back on

Not sure I understand... Assuming there were 4 crew on board... you mean FIVE of them got off the plane when it landed? How could that not be noticed ? or what am I missing?


User currently offlineaa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Quoting redflyer (Reply 6):
Which would indicate that he either didn't survive the drop, or that he cut the bags loose while he was parachuting down in order to slow his decent, and he was unable to find the money once he landed.

I saw a special on either NatGeo or Discovery about DB. It's wildly believed most if not all of the money went into mud/rivers and was covered up for good. I think the money and his body went down a river and the search party didn't expand their radius enough. Should be interesting to find out!



Go big or go home
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
I'd bet my bottom dollar that he put his uniform back on, and rejoined the crew, and that another crew member walked off with the money as part of a well-executed plan.

Except that none of the money has ever turned up in circulation.

Whoever this "Dan Cooper" was, he most likely died shortly after jumping out of the airplane, and his remains were eaten by the critters that roam the woods and the rest buried by the Columbia River.

Just look at Steve Fossett: after only a year in conditions far better for preserving remains, the only bits of him they found were a couple of bones, his shoes, and his wallet.

IMO, the FBI is chasing yet another con artist looking to stir the pot.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

All that for a somewhat measly $200K? I know back in 1971 $200K was worth more than it is today, but was it worth the risk?
I mean, today that wouldn't even be enough for a decent retirement!

BTW, whatever happened to the 727 he was on? Was it a -100 model?


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 10):
All that for a somewhat measly $200K? I know back in 1971 $200K was worth more

Adjusted for inflation, it would be worth just over a million dollars today...




"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5774 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
I'd bet my bottom dollar that he put his uniform back on, and rejoined the crew, and that another crew member walked off with the money as part of a well-executed plan.

There is a movie somewhere with this premise. I don't remember if it was just a made-for-tv-movie or something more, but I remember watching it. That was the twist at the end.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
IMO, the FBI is chasing yet another con artist looking to stir the pot.

The tip was provided by a person in law enforcement, so that is not very likely. And the fact that the FBI itself is calling it credible makes it even less likely that it is a con.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 10):
All that for a somewhat measly $200K? I know back in 1971 $200K was worth more than it is today, but was it worth the risk?
I mean, today that wouldn't even be enough for a decent retirement!

Well, in today's dollars it would be equivalent to $1,114,676.54. Not exactly chump change. You might not be able to retire but you could do very well in many places and only work for basics. Remember, it is not taxed so he got to keep the whole amount.... 

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineaa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 10):
Was it a -100 model?

I think it was a NW 727-100

From an old thread:
Boeing 727-051, msn #18803, line number 137, delivered to Northwest (Orient) Airlines on April 22, 1965 as N467US, operated with Piedmont as N838N, last operator Key Airlines (Worldcorp) as N29KA, withdrawn from use and stored at Greenwood (GWO), Mississippi, to be broken up.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/1998008/



Go big or go home
User currently offlineTigerguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 10):
All that for a somewhat measly $200K? I know back in 1971 $200K was worth more than it is today, but was it worth the risk?
I mean, today that wouldn't even be enough for a decent retirement!

If he had asked for more, it would have been that much more weight for him to jump out with. I saw the TV documentary mentioned somewhere above, and they said that he'd have saved more weight if he'd asked for $100 bills instead of $20 dollar bills--which adds to the argument that he was inexperienced and probably died somewhere along the way. (That said, it's still fun to think that he might have made it...)

Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 13):
From an old thread:
Boeing 727-051, msn #18803, line number 137, delivered to Northwest (Orient) Airlines on April 22, 1965 as N467US, operated with Piedmont as N838N, last operator Key Airlines (Worldcorp) as N29KA, withdrawn from use and stored at Greenwood (GWO), Mississippi, to be broken up.

And we have pictures!


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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.


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Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum




Flying friendly for a while, but is that a widget I see in the rear-view mirror?
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

It makes for an interesting story, but I'm dumbfounded that the FBI wastes money on this case. What's the point? This should be left to hobbyists.

There are more serious crimes that need solving.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7579 times:

While sounding entirely impossible at first sight, Koruman's theory sounds plausible if you examine closely. Nobody knows what really happened, and I'm not arguing that the crew did it. But the cabin was only a third full, police or any authority was denied meeting him, he probably wore sunglasses when he met the manager at the ramp, and the fighter aircraft noted nothing jumping out from the 727 in their radars. Perhaps the hijacker, if he was one of the crew, found out that the money was microfilm photographed and decided not to use them ? That sounds very possible to say that the hijacker survived (either as crew or with a successful jump - the latter quite impossible). If he did not survive, at least some evidence or more notes would have been found very probably. And was his parachute ever found ?


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7542 times:

Quoting be77 (Reply 2):

Apparently not an A.nut.
Are you sure you're making a good decision

Of course not. But she's hot and an MS in Economics with a cushy job at the National Reserve Bank making slightly more than I do. I think my decision is good  

Funny thing is we went to a restaurant across from a bar in Kansas City called "DB Cooper's" so I had to explain it to her on our way in. She learns things via alcohol exposure  
Quoting redflyer (Reply 6):
I had read on several occasions over the years that not a single Dollar of the money that was given to him during the hijacking has ever turned up in circulation.

That's what I have heard too. One of those great mysteries that I just love. As much as I want to know what happened, I almost want the mystery as well...


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7444 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
my wife keeps asking me "what Do I find interesting about this website"
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 4):
My wife asks me the same question about a.net and she knows who D.B. Cooper is, so I'm sure she'll be completely convinced I'm a nut case!

If you REALLY want your wives to think you're nuts, just let them catch you listening to "Coast to Coast" !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3669 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7123 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 15):

It makes for an interesting story, but I'm dumbfounded that the FBI wastes money on this case. What's the point? This should be left to hobbyists.

If the FBI has a lead, they should follow up on it.

The FBI investigates cold cases all the time, and often solves them. If a criminal thinks he can just wait out investigators, there's a lot less deterrent to committing crimes. The idea is that potential criminals know they can never relax, as long as they live, until they're caught (or the statute of limitations runs out, but there is no statute of limitations on many serious crimes).

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 15):
There are more serious crimes that need solving.

This was a very serious crime. This man hijacked a plane and held its passengers for ransom.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

Quoting auroralives (Reply 7):
Not sure I understand... Assuming there were 4 crew on board... you mean FIVE of them got off the plane when it landed? How could that not be noticed ? or what am I missing?

Are you familiar with the course of events?

A ticket was bought by someone at the last minute, without presentation of ID, on a flight due to have 3 flight-deck crew and 4 cabin crew. Supposedly. In days when only the crew would count, and when ID was not required.

The passenger presumed to be DB Cooper sat in either 15D, 18C or 18E - noone agrees on the seat number or his height, only his clothes.

The handover of money occurred with all lights switched off at around 620pm in Seattle in November, after which the passengers and cabin crew were allowed to leave, and DB Cooper and the three cockpit crew (none of whom had been seen by anyone since embarkation) plus a flight attendant took off, supposedly with the money. When they landed, Cooper was gone.

My guess is that the cockpit crew, and possibly a male flight attendant, each sat in 15D, 18C and 18E in the four hours between take-off at 250 pm and passenger release at 645 pm, deliberately confusing witnesses as to exactly what DB Cooper looked like, and even where he sat. This was a 70% empty flight, with only 36 seats occupied before DB Cooper bought his ticket, and Cooper sat alone after the supposed hijacking, behind the other passengers.

The money was handed over to a male figure in complete darkness, and within minutes the passengers and cabin crew were released. My guess is that the money either left with one of them, or was secreted on the aircraft for later collection.

I presume that the "DB Cooper" figure who received the money in total darkness was either the pilot, co-pilot or flight engineer. We know he wore a full-length raincoat over an apparent suit and white shirt - clothes that all three would be expected to have with them on a wintery Pacific Northwest day.

I'm guessing that the plane then took off, the crew member removed the raincoat and put back on his full uniform, opened the rear door and professed surprise that the hijacker had left the aircraft.

The next bit is the best bit. These people were a flight crew. The money could never be spent in the USA, obviously. But it could be used almost anywhere in the Third World, and was probably laundered within days. Let's say it resurfaced in the hands of a dodgy Third World dictatorship seeking to buy arms with it. Would we ever have been told?

The Vietnam War was going on at the time, and within a couple of years right-wing military dictatorships were taking over most of Latin America, with US government support - these were the days of the Nixon presidency. It was a great time to launder US dollars.

If the crew didn't do this.....they should have!


User currently offlineauroralives From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 20):
Are you familiar with the course of events?

Not to that level of detail.... MUCH thanks for the synopsis !

I'm sold... It's got my vote for the leading theory  


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

I forgot to mention, of course, that:

1. All the crew members had legitimate reasons for their fingerprints and DNA to be in the cabin, and
2. The money which was later found on a riverbank in 1980 hadn't been in situ in 1974, which implies that someone planted it there as a decoy.

It's a terrific piece of history. And I don't understand why no-one suspects the crew, who apart from the motive had the means and opportunity to execute the scam and to launder the money overseas.


User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
It's a terrific piece of history.

True.

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
And I don't understand why no-one suspects the crew, who apart from the motive had the means and opportunity to execute the scam and to launder the money overseas.

I'm sure the FBI did check the crew. We don't know all details.


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 20):
The next bit is the best bit. These people were a flight crew. The money could never be spent in the USA, obviously. But it could be used almost anywhere in the Third World, and was probably laundered within days. Let's say it resurfaced in the hands of a dodgy Third World dictatorship seeking to buy arms with it. Would we ever have been told?

While I cannot argue most of the points of your conspiracy theory that you raise because I'm just not enough of a DB expert or crime investigator to know, the above is the one obvious hole in the conspiracy theory, even for a novice like me. While it's plausible that the money was spent outside of the U.S. in some back-water Third-World dictatorship, not a single Dollar of the hijack money has ever turned up in circulation. Although $200k is a very small amount compared to the hundreds of billions floating around out there, some of it, even if just a few hundred worth, would have turned up by now had it been spent, even in some back-water Third-World dictatorship.

Inasmuch as we all love a good conspiracy story or to read about someone who was able to pull the wool over the big bad government, the simple explanations are often times the most plausible, especially when the evidence would not indicate otherwise.

My money is on DB having either died in the jump or having lost the money during the jump. IF the feds identify a suspect, who they've already indicated is dead, they are going to reveal that he either died in the jump, or died from old age after having nursed some wounds in his final years that he received when he was on vacation in his 40's sometime back in 1971 over the Thanksgiving holiday.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
25 2175301 : While a good chunk of the money was found buried in the banks of the Columbia River I remain skeptical that the US had the ability back then (or even
26 Post contains links Highflier92660 : I agree with the conspiracy theorists who maintain that D.B. Cooper was an employee of Northwest. Whoever he was he had at least a rudimentary underst
27 USAIRWAYS321 : This case has always fascinated me. I've always wondered why, if the FBI are so confident that Cooper wouldn't have survived his jump, they continue t
28 777STL : Probably because they never found the body, which would have been the only conclusive evidence that he had died. I'm somewhat skeptical with this new
29 type-rated : DB Cooper would be about 80 something years old, if he survived which is doubtful. Yes, it is interesting that he wanted only 15 degrees of flaps. The
30 Post contains links and images be77 : Then, refined it all and came back later for a much bigger scam called Bre-X. The similarity is that I doubt that de Guzman jumped out of the helicop
31 2175301 : The other factor is what "pile" of cash do you look for. Someone comes into a bank to open an account and they have more than $500 in $20's; then che
32 spacecadet : All US dollars eventually return to the US government for disposal. There is no way for them to avoid detection, unless they are either not spent, or
33 canyonblue17 : This is the "deepthroat" conspiracy of the aviation world. That is why so many people have been interested for such a long period of time. Time will t
34 StuckInCA : I understand that and don't disagree. I simply think that this crime is far enough in the past and he would be so old now (if he's alive) that there'
35 daves1243 : An FBI spokesperson said yesterday on NPR that the new suspect was deceased, and therefore processing the new evidence was a low priority task that wo
36 redflyer : Thank you for stating the obvious so succinctly. What people don't realize is that if that money were closely held by a few entities who spent it or
37 Post contains images displane : The FBI never closed the case and it has not been active for some time. It remained as an open case and since a credible witness has come forward, th
38 tugger : Well it is possible that the serial numbers were actually not recorded. Sometimes things are said to scare the criminal (and any others thinking of d
39 auroralives : What about the bills found near the Colombia River?? They were positively matched to some bills given to DB. It would be a large coincidence if even
40 777STL : Yes, and the Fed also records the serial number of every bill that is destroyed. So, if the money had been entered into circulation at some point whe
41 rdh3e : If it was one of the crew, a pilot perhaps, then maybe he realized the one flaw in his plan. He knew the money was marked, but no one knew who he was
42 Post contains links glbltrvlr : A few more details released... The individual being investigated apparently died approximately 10 years ago. The artifact that led to the recent activ
43 koruman : Going back to the money, there are two issues here. Firstly, I doubt that all the serial numbers were recorded in the limited time available, in the d
44 Post contains links rwy04lga : I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned 'The Pursuit of D B Cooper', with Treat Williams and Robert Duvall. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082958/
45 Post contains links rwy04lga : I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned 'The Pursuit of D B Cooper', with Treat Williams and Robert Duvall. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082958/
46 spacecadet : The FBI does not typically investigate murder cases unless a serial killer is suspected. In a ransom case? Come on now. Mainframe computers have been
47 Post contains links AirlineCritic : One of the articles that has more details: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/..._it_has_a_new_lead_in_famous_.html
48 Post contains links rdh3e : If you read the wiki article it cites a source saying they publically released all of the serial numbers. There is a website that you can enter your
49 koruman : Look, there are effectively two alternatives here, aren't there. Option 1 is that DB Cooper was an amateur and a fool, who had planned poorly and did
50 Post contains images redflyer : Give it up, guys - you can't argue with a conspiracy theorist. They just can't accept the fact that some things really are as they appear. Besides, t
51 David L : Especially if there were some blocks of new, sequentially printed notes. Option 3 is that it was a fairly well thought out scheme that almost, but di
52 Post contains links glbltrvlr : More details released, including the name of the alleged hijacker - L.D. Cooper. Purportedly lost the money on the way down from the airplane.
53 richierich : Are you serious? This sounds far more outlandish than a lone man jumping out the back of an aircraft. So in order for your theory to work, the whole
54 Post contains links tugger : Good point. D'OH! Interesting read in the Seattle Times, an interview with the woman who supposedly provided the evidence they are checking into: htt
55 Post contains links BNAOWB : A photo of this L.D. Cooper can be seen in the following links in which Marla Cooper claims that her uncle was the hijacker: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT
56 koruman : That's a quaint idea, and a recurring theme running through this thread is the conviction of US-based A-netters that the FBI in the early 1970s (or i
57 Post contains images redflyer : Interesting comment. You say the government (or a part of it) was so inept that your 4th grader could have done a better job running it, yet in your
58 wjcandee : A couple of thoughts: (1) Go have a look at how the FBI solved the case of the largest bank burglary (not robbery, burglary) ever, in the same time pe
59 Post contains images InsideMan : while the rest of your post makes perfect sense, you might want to check that again....
60 richierich : Let me clarify. Everybody has DNA so yes it existed back then of course but the testing of it for matching to criminals did not become viable until t
61 Post contains links redflyer : It appears DB will continue to remain an enigma, at least for now, as DNA testing did not match. However, FBI admits the DNA on the tie they have may
62 InsideMan : "Gutt said there are three different DNA samples on the tie and that it's possible it had been used previously by other people." Three different sampl
63 MillwallSean : In all fairness. US dollars spent in latin america can easily stay there without ending up destroyed in the US. I would assume that it was the case in
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