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What Would Happen If El Al Would Divert In Iran?  
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14494 times:

If not Iran, Saudi Arabia too.

Saw this topic in the UA diverts to Cuba thread. Credits to NYCflyer for bringing this up. So what would happen? Say its an extreme emergency. Would they escort them out of the airspace? Let them land? God forbid, but shoot them down? Thoughts?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14474 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Thread starter):
So what would happen?

I would assume it would meet the same fate as NW41 did when it diverted to Tehran in 2005. Technical help, then seeing it on its way.

US Airliner Makes Emergency Landing At Tehran (by JoKeR Jun 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14437 times:

But El Al does not route over Iran, unlike United over Cuba or NWA over Iran.

So the chance of a diversion would be virtually none as there is no reason to be over Iran to begin with.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25322 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14314 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
But El Al does not route over Iran, unlike United over Cuba or NWA over Iran.

So the chance of a diversion would be virtually none as there is no reason to be over Iran to begin with.

But the question also mentioned Saudi Arabia and many LY flights, for example TLV-BKK, fly down the Red Sea to avoid overflying Arab countries. On that route they are very close to the Saudi coastline for over 1000 miles, then a couple of hundred miles bordering Yemen, before reaching the Indian Ocean, when they can turn eastbound. In an emergency, the closest airport capable of handling the aircraft could be in Saudi Arabia.

[Edited 2011-08-01 17:15:14]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14268 times:

And for Saudi Arabia, it would be a non-issue.
Israel and Saudi Arabia have more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye most particularly in the last 2-3 years.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13997 times:

Several years ago a kidnaped Iranian domestic flight landed at VDA. While the Iranians did try to give this occurrence a very low exposure and did contact Israel thru 3rd partners about the return of the aircraft, passengers and crew; some Israelis got to the airport and placed "Free Ron Arad" stickers on the aircraft and that made the news.

Given that occurrence and the Iranian reaction then, it may be possible, however unreal, that Iran may allow an emergency Israeli aircraft diversion. And surely, if no accident is involved with the diversion, the news of that event would be censored by Iran as much as possible.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13847 times:

Iran is trying to establish itself as a regional power -- something that even Ahmadinejad can figure out is usually best served by avoiding noisily controversial civilian deaths. With that in mind, Iran would almost certainly let the stricken plane land and then hustle it and its passengers out as quickly and quietly as possible.

User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1084 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13728 times:

I don't think it would be a problem at SA or Iran to be honest. I could see either country trying to force them to a military base and escorting them instead of a civilian airport. KSA would probably just keep it quiet and let them on their way whereas Iran would be more likely to impound the craft or delay departure or something else. I could see them impounding a new Airbus given the sanctions or holding it hostage for a fee.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13604 times:

Probably not much for just about all countries. Even if the countries have problems they are not going to want to create more with a civil airliner and possibly civilians from countries all over the world.
Israel and Saudi Arabia would be no problems at all that is for sure lets not forget about the middle man for those two the USA.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12468 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13303 times:

I don't think it could happen, at all. With the NW incident a few years back, you had the airline of a country with which Iran had poor relations, but still recognised, but with EL AL, you have a country which Iran doesn't recognise; it always refers to Israel as "Zionist occupiers" or something similar. It would not recognise Israeli passports and would therefore treat Israeli passengers as "stateless persons", probably detaining them; the aircraft would probably be impounded. The Iranians would do their best to humiliate Israel.

I'm sure that EL AL pilots would never even consider flying anywhere near Iran, much less diverting there.


User currently offline4xear From Israel, joined Jul 2010, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13169 times:

El Al flights head north over Turkey, Georgia and then east through Azerbaijan and further east to destinations such as Beijing, Hong Kong and Bangkok.

In case of a diversion over the Red Sea it would probably go to Egypt first. Further down it would try to make it to Nairobi or Addis Abeba. Flying east when south of the Arabia peninsula, it would try to go to Oman or continue on to the Indian subcontinent.

I haven't heard of diversion of El Al flights otherwise. I do know that lots of Israelis fly with Royal Jordanian to Amman and then connect to other destinations further east. A diversion would have the same consequences. There are international standards about the carriage of passengers, and Iran is a signatory and would not want to rock the boat.

4xear


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12960 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
I don't think it could happen, at all. With the NW incident a few years back, you had the airline of a country with which Iran had poor relations, but still recognised, but with EL AL, you have a country which Iran doesn't recognise; it always refers to Israel as "Zionist occupiers" or something similar. It would not recognise Israeli passports and would therefore treat Israeli passengers as "stateless persons", probably detaining them; the aircraft would probably be impounded. The Iranians would do their best to humiliate Israel.

I'm sure that EL AL pilots would never even consider flying anywhere near Iran, much less diverting there.

And that could be one of the dumbest things Iran could ever do. Hold hostage civilians not only from Israel but from countries all over the world who landed on a civilian plane. Iran still follows ICAO rules. EU airlines fly to Iran. El Al flights do not over fly Iran but if it had to happen I would imagine they would try to get the problem fix as fast a possible and get the people and plane out. Hold hostage a 777 full of civilians could possibly start a war with Israel and the United States or at least an invasion to get rescue the hostages. Not something Iran will want.

Quoting 4xear (Reply 10):
There are international standards about the carriage of passengers, and Iran is a signatory and would not want to rock the boat.

Exactly!



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12913 times:

Building nuclear weapons is not smart either, but Iran is doing that. El Al is going to fly into Iranian airspace. Please don't equate Israeli's treatment an Iranian aircraft with the way Tehrran would treat an Israeli one. El Al used to fly to Teheran years ago.

User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7610 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12623 times:

Iran would not be the only country to have Nukes.

User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12233 times:

Where do you people get your information? Please take heed of these two real life examples.

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 7):
KSA would probably just keep it quiet and let them on their way whereas Iran would be more likely to impound the craft or delay departure or something else. I could see them impounding a new Airbus given the sanctions or holding it hostage for a fee.

The Northwest Airlines DC-10 that landed in Mehrabad was given technical assistance, fuel, and the passengers were fed and watered. As an interesting aside, the captain had worked as an expat in Iran during the Shah's reign, and some of his old Iranian colleagues were still ground crew at Mehrabad, leading to a couple of unexpected quarter-of-a-century-later reunions between friends.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
with EL AL, you have a country which Iran doesn't recognise; it always refers to Israel as "Zionist occupiers" or something similar. It would not recognise Israeli passports and would therefore treat Israeli passengers as "stateless persons", probably detaining them; the aircraft would probably be impounded. The Iranians would do their best to humiliate Israel.

A Turkish Airlines 737 en route over Iran had a technical problem and diverted to Tehran IKA, with an Israeli passport holder on board. Possibly because passenger lists are transmitted as a condition of overflight (certainly the US insists upon it), the Iranians knew there was an Israeli on the aircraft when it landed. An Iranian border agent went onto the aircraft soon after it blocked in, to speak to the Israeli, and assured him he should have no concern for his security and well-being while on Iranian soil. This incident was widely discussed on a.net at the time.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 12):
Building nuclear weapons is not smart either, but Iran is doing that.

The current US national security assessment is that they are not building nuclear weapons - they are building nuclear power facilities; with the technical knowledge to weaponise, but are not doing so at the present time, and have not done so since 2003.

Not to say the Iranian leadership is not a den of jackals, but your concerns should be with how they treat dissenting members of their own society, and some minorities (eg Kurds). Taking hostages off disabled civilian airliners, building nukes, this is the stuff of Fox News bad dreams and has no basis in reality.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4001 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12075 times:
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If it were ever to happen, I don't expect Iran to help quietly, quite the contrary. I think Iran would be a gracious host and would then trumpet it on the news for a couple of days, not for an international but a domestic audience, to show its people how perfectly nice their government is and how the rest of the world is set on treating them as pariah for no good reason.

Don't forget that a lot of what the Iranian government does is for domestic consumption, despite the ramifications on a global scale. The population is by no means united behind their government, and hasn't been for years. Trying to convince a local audience the country needs to be unified against external threats is a tried-and-true tactic to release pressure at home.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2392 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11823 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
And for Saudi Arabia, it would be a non-issue.
Israel and Saudi Arabia have more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye most particularly in the last 2-3 years.

+1.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlinembj2000 From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10999 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 15):

If it were ever to happen, I don't expect Iran to help quietly, quite the contrary. I think Iran would be a gracious host and would then trumpet it on the news for a couple of days, not for an international but a domestic audience, to show its people how perfectly nice their government is and how the rest of the world is set on treating them as pariah for no good reason.

Exactly! It would be great advertisement for the iranian government to show how "good" they are. Ahmad... always said he's not a foe of the israel people but of their government and "zionist regime".



Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
User currently offlinejeppelainen From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 15):
If it were ever to happen, I don't expect Iran to help quietly, quite the contrary. I think Iran would be a gracious host and would then trumpet it on the news for a couple of days, not for an international but a domestic audience, to show its people how perfectly nice their government is and how the rest of the world is set on treating them as pariah for no good reason.

Couldn't agree more.

Don't forget about 2007 Iranian seizure of Royal Navy personnel that Ahmadinejad used as media propaganda.

/J


User currently offlineusa330300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

Since Iran is home to the largest Jewish population in the Middle East, outside of Israel, I would think they would allow the plane to land.

User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8839 times:

Quite the long discussion, even though LaxIntl has said it all. El Al doesn't fly through Iran's air space and Iran and Saudi Arabia are ''partners''. Saudi Arabia even opened their air space to Israel to attack Iranian nuclear facilities and Israel just recently okay'd Germany selling 200 tanks to Saudi Arabia.


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 19):

That logic makes no sense at all in the airline industry.


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1084 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 14):
A Turkish Airlines 737 en route over Iran had a technical problem and diverted to Tehran IKA, with an Israeli passport holder on board. Possibly because passenger lists are transmitted as a condition of overflight

I don't think that's analogous. They have good relations with the Turks and would be inclined not to interfere with their national airlines. A Turkish firm completed the terminal at IKA as well.

Quoting something (Reply 20):
Israel just recently okay'd Germany selling 200 tanks to Saudi Arabia.

I didn't realize the largest economy in Europe needed a permission slip.

Sadly, we know we know what happens when an "unfriendly" aircraft diverts into Israel. I'd be more concerned of a repeat of this situation if a IranAir flight had to divert to Ben Gurion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114


User currently offlineTCASAlert From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8171 times:

There wouldn't be any reason for them to - even their BKK flight departs westerly over the Mediterranean before heading down across Africa and then back across to India for the remainder of the flight.

User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3101 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

I think both Saudi Arabia and Iran (most likely the former) would simply conceal the information as if nothing happened. If something were to leak out, they would say that it was this one time and that the next time they won't be so gracious (with a wink on the sidelines).

Though El Al does not overfly Iran, that's not to say the possibility is completely 0%. Do the ex-Soviet republics have airports that can handle El Al jets?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 14):
diverted to Tehran IKA, with an Israeli passport holder on board.

IIRC, the time the NW flight diverted, there was a handful of Israelis as well onboard. I remember reading that they were terrified, but that Iranian officials assured them they had nothing to worry about and treated them like they treated the rest of the passengers.

Quoting something (Reply 20):
Saudi Arabia even opened their air space to Israel to attack Iranian nuclear facilities

When did this happen? The fact that a rumor has been floating around doesn't make it official.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
25 flyingalex : We don't. But in the interest of our relations with them, the German government consulted a number of key strategic partners and allies to get their
26 csavel : Frankly, as many have said, nothing would happen other than the plane would be serviced, pax taken care of. Maybe not luxuriously, maybe not even allo
27 einsteinboricua : Sorry, this reminded me of Donald Rumsfeld's Known Knowns speech. Iran has more room to stretch, especially now that Egypt-Iran ties are starting to
28 awthompson : Now we are talking sense! I am a westerner (British with no foreign blood!) but let me kindly say the following. I discovered in recent times that we
29 gatorfan : Given Israel's track record with how it deals with people who hold its citizens hostage, I'm not sure Iran would do anything stupid. Land, make them p
30 SolarFlyer22 : There are actually significantly more and they generally do fine. The statistics on the internet are sourced from the CIA world fact book which is ba
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