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Colombian Aviation #6  
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15322 times:

Here we start the sixth thread, with new information about AV's new route London. They are actively seeking slots at LGW and LHR and Efromovich has given a launch date of no longer than the first quarter of 2012, good for them! Strong rumors on the relaunch of LAX have been circling around too. There is also AIRES' new domestic schedules which are giving travelers a lot more flexibility (eg CTG went from 4 daily to 6 daily, CUC from three daily to four...) while Copa Colombia is backing off from the market. Expectation is high towards the entrance of VivaColombia too.

To a good discussion.

237 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8596 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15461 times:
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I'd love to see AV return to LHR, having flown them earlier this year, I love the feel of them and can't wait to fly them again!


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15434 times:

any news about FRA served by AV and new Spain services (VLC)?


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15341 times:

I expect that LON will be served soon after the next A330 is received, which is just 6 months away, in January 2012, with Perhaps LON starting in March for the Summer season. They could start for this Winter iif necessary, but sacrificing A330 serviice to MIA and maybe SCL too, but I think it unlikely.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):

any news about FRA served by AV and new Spain services (VLC)?


With LH BOG with a perfect schedule for AV-TA connections there, I would find it very unlikely that AV would serve FRA, unless it was in replacement of LH - for whom the route has apparently not been an immediate success (with premium traffic -or lack of enough of it, being the problem)

As for ALC and/or VLC, again, I do think that there is a good chance of seeing it happen, as a total of 3 A330s will be delivered next year. There would even be scope to restart LAX and increase A330 service to SCL.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8513 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15295 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
With LH BOG with a perfect schedule for AV-TA connections there, I would find it very unlikely that AV would serve FRA, unless it was in replacement of LH - for whom the route has apparently not been an immediate success (with premium traffic -or lack of enough of it, being the problem)

Is the A340-600 too big for Bogota ? Would an A340-300 be better. Lufthansa might have better luck in Barranquilla, Kidding that would not work.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15274 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
unless it was in replacement of LH - for whom the route has apparently not been an immediate success (with premium traffic -or lack of enough of it, being the problem)

I have also heard this but haven't actually seen an official statement or any proof of it being true. They 60J configuration they started sending was a bit too much I must agree, but the 48J seat aircraft they are sending now should do fine.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Is the A340-600 too big for Bogota ? Would an A340-300 be better.

Loads have been very good, and the A340-600 can haul more cargo, which is very important for BOG operations. A -300 would take away a lot of Y seats which wouldn't help the bottom line.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
any news about FRA served by AV and new Spain services (VLC)?

While FRA is most certainly not going to happen (LH isn't even daily), the new Spain services should become a reality next year, as there will be plenty of A330 capacity. I would also expect a boost in BCN services (at least another weekly flight), the route has been a total success.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15132 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
I have also heard this but haven't actually seen an official statement or any proof of it being true. They 60J configuration they started sending was a bit too much I must agree, but the 48J seat aircraft they are sending now should do fine.

Remember that there are also 8 first class seats that occupy precious space in the A346.
In this interview in April, this is what LH's representative in Colombia said " En Colombia hemos tenido un año bastante bueno, en el segmento turístico superamos lo que habíamos proyectado, aunque en clase ejecutiva estamos algo por debajo de los pronósticos que habíamos hecho en la compañía."

http://www.mercadodedinero.com.co/in...uerto&catid=49:empresas&Itemid=177

So, tourist segment above projections, *but* executive class below their forecasts.
And for an airline like LH, business is what brings home the bacon.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Is the A340-600 too big for Bogota ? Would an A340-300 be better. .

The A343 would surely be better, but apparently it would not be able to take off full from BOG.
In the interview linked above, LH's representative talks about BOG's runway needed to be longer to enable them to have flexibility on aircraft deployment. I take that to mean that they would like to use an A343 even if just by seasons, but that it's not viable.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
I would also expect a boost in BCN services (at least another weekly flight), the route has been a total success.

The route has done well in high season, but low has seen reduced frequencies.
I would bet on 2 extra weekly flights, which would go via ALC. That's how AV applied for the additional BCN frequencies.
VLN would be non-stop.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15089 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Lufthansa might have better luck in Barranquilla, Kidding that would not work.

Honestly, that could've only be said by you, gotta give it to you, good one....  

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
While FRA is most certainly not going to happen

LON will come first, for sure.


Here´s an interview to Efromovich published in El Tiempo:

http://www.portafolio.co/economia/%E...ambien-se-quedara-pequeno%E2%80%99

*Takes the heat because people is not really happy with the new Lifemiles program.

*Don´t see a market for a FR-like airline (Vivacolombia).


777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8513 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15095 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
Remember that there are also 8 first class seats that occupy precious space in the A346.
In this interview in April, this is what LH's representative in Colombia said " En Colombia hemos tenido un año bastante bueno, en el segmento turístico superamos lo que habíamos proyectado, aunque en clase ejecutiva estamos algo por debajo de los pronósticos que habíamos hecho en la compañía."

http://www.mercadodedinero.com.co/in...uerto&catid=49:empresas&Itemid=177

So, tourist segment above projections, *but* executive class below their forecasts.
And for an airline like LH, business is what brings home the bacon.

LH using the A346 has tons of cargo space, Colombia imports lots of heavy industrial goods from Germany. IS Cargo a bigger factor in this route then lack of selling J class seats ? 279 Y & 66 J and 239 Y/ 60 J/ 8F are the 2 A346 seating configs. on LH. Does LH really sell 239 seats on their plane per flight. While the A346 is not the "perfect" plane for this route its the best LH has and frankly its very good.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15001 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
Remember that there are also 8 first class seats that occupy precious space in the A346.

Of course.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
And for an airline like LH, business is what brings home the bacon.

Cargo brings home the bacon for any airline too. And J loads haven't been abysmal either. I have faith in LH's performance in BOG, he even says that the idea is to have daily flights in a couple of years. And even though it's almost six months old, before they started sending the new A346 configuration and everything, it's an interesting interview, specially for this:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
The A343 would surely be better, but apparently it would not be able to take off full from BOG.
In the interview linked above, LH's representative talks about BOG's runway needed to be longer to enable them to have flexibility on aircraft deployment. I take that to mean that they would like to use an A343 even if just by seasons, but that it's not viable.
LH flew the A343 for years to BOG with no problem (I remember being on the flight back in 2001) and no airline has complained about BOG's runway length in the airport's history (both are over 12400ft long), it just doesn't make any sense. From what he is saying, i wouldn't get the idea of hinting that the A343 could be abetter aircraft for the airport.

Sending the A343 to BOG would give them reduced cargo space and less Y seats, not a good combo for the colombian capital.

On other news, the latest report form Aerocivil is showing a 6,9% increase in domestic passengers for the january-april 2011 period, with AIRES, Satena and Copa showing decreases, while Avianca, Easyfly and Aerolínea de Antioquia are seeing growth. AV's explosive 63% jump is because they absorbed MM's pax, but they still grew in overall pax transported.

http://www.portafolio.co/economia/ae...n-retroceder-crecimiento-pasajeros

Easyfly's growth is impressive.

[Edited 2011-08-08 12:44:31]

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14937 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 9):
LH flew the A343 for years to BOG with no problem (I remember being on the flight back in 2001) and no airline has complained about BOG's runway length in the airport's history (both are over 12400ft long), it just doesn't make any sense. From what he is saying, i wouldn't get the idea of hinting that the A343 could be abetter aircraft for the airport.

I also found it odd that he mentioned BOG's runway length as a hindrance, but I have no reason to disbelieve that if it were even longer, some unnamed airplane type could take off full, which it currently cannot.

He certainly mentions clearly that they would like the flexibility to use another aircraft tyoe. I can only imagine that it would be the A340.. Which other? The A333 is out of the question, I believe.

Which of course can do the route, but the question is of taking a full load: cargo and pax.
The profitability line has moved since 2001 when LH last operated the route. Oil prices have quadrupoled since.

Being able to take a full load of cargo, an A343 might be more profitable -at least in the low season- as the difference between the income and costs might mean black rather than red. The A346 fuel bill for the route is significantly higher,
more crew members are required -who need to be paid salaries and accommodation- and even the airport fees are
higher.

But if a full load of cargo cannot be taken, then the calculations change..

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 7):
*Takes the heat because people is not really happy with the new Lifemiles program.

*Don´t see a market for a FR-like airline (Vivacolombia).

Interesting highlights that you picked out.
On LifeMiles, I find Efromovich very patronising of his customers, essentially saying that the new FF programme is too "sophisticated" for them to understand..

On low cost airlines, he is always warning that they can turn into Air Comet and Air Madrid and reminds of scenes of people left stranded at airports at Christmas time etc.

But on an FR model not working in Colombia is just more barking talk. He should be reminded that Ryanair carries 80m pax a year and has constantly made handsome profits.

Why would the model not work in Colombia? A country that is multi centre, with no trains and road links that are less than perfect and often prone to landslides, and frequent tolls on top.
So an airline like Viva Colombia will look to get pax from buses to airplanes and given the advanges of air travel vs overland, I believe that they can be successful - not necessarily in every route that they propose- but there is a large untapped market that have had no access for air travel due to high fares and who would be very happy to swap a 6, 10 hour or more on a bus for a 1 hour flight.

So Mr Efromovich is most likely deep down fearing Viva, as he must know that they could become a fierce competitor.
If AV -as has been increasingly rumoured- does move A318s to MDE to replace F50s on routes to CLO, BAQ, CTG and SMR, would only show that they want to pre-empt Viva's arrival on those routes with jet aircraft.

[Edited 2011-08-08 15:23:41]

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14787 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
Interesting highlights that you picked out.
On LifeMiles, I find Efromovich very patronising of his customers, essentially saying that the new FF programme is too "sophisticated" for them to understand..

Being a status holder, I really have lot of complaints against the new program. And is not only that I "don't understand" the program, but many glitches such as lost upgrade coupons (not my fault), have to manually add my flown miles (I still don't get why), lounges always full, underserved and understaffed. They've made mistakes, and they know it, but they could improve in so many areas, that not always is about inflight service and having top notch planes.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
On low cost airlines, he is always warning that they can turn into Air Comet and Air Madrid and reminds of scenes of people left stranded at airports at Christmas time etc.

He seems afraid of that competition. Is not the first time he comes out with that excuse.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
So an airline like Viva Colombia will look to get pax from buses to airplanes and given the advanges of air travel vs overland, I believe that they can be successful - not necessarily in every route that they propose- but there is a large untapped market that have had no access for air travel due to high fares and who would be very happy to swap a 6, 10 hour or more on a bus for a 1 hour flight.

That's basically what Easyfly is aiming for, and has been doing quite well. They compete against bus service, and that's their market, not fighting AV, P5 or C4.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
If AV -as has been increasingly rumoured- does move A318s to MDE to replace F50s on routes to CLO, BAQ, CTG and SMR, would only show that they want to pre-empt Viva's arrival on those routes with jet aircraft.

But they will have to fight with different startegies, such as LOW prices. That's how you fight a LCC.


777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14669 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
The route has done well in high season, but low has seen reduced frequencies.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 11):
But they will have to fight with different startegies, such as LOW prices. That's how you fight a LCC.

They did fight back at AIRES by offering very good fares, but if Viva's model is more organized towards actually making a profit with the low fares, it might be harder for AV to keep it sustainable in the long term.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 11):
have to manually add my flown miles (I still don't get why),

What is up with that? I have had to manually add all of my flights and haven't gotten one response form Lifemiles, who claim that it will only take them "up to 30 weekdays", I mean, how can it take you two months to process that kind of information? Are they THAT understaffed? Not to mention, I haven't gotten my new card yet.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
I also found it odd that he mentioned BOG's runway length as a hindrance, but I have no reason to disbelieve that if it were even longer, some unnamed airplane type could take off full, which it currently cannot.

He certainly mentions clearly that they would like the flexibility to use another aircraft tyoe. I can only imagine that it would be the A340.. Which other? The A333 is out of the question, I believe.

As always, interviews fail to keep things clear. Certainly using another aircraft could mean the A343, but I wouldn't think it would need a longer runway to take off fully loaded, AF has never complained about this and it's roughly the same distance to CDG.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
The profitability line has moved since 2001 when LH last operated the route. Oil prices have quadrupoled since.

Of course, and some other costs, like crew layovers, have gotten cheaper. But yes, it's much harder to make a profit today than 10 years ago.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
Being able to take a full load of cargo, an A343 might be more profitable -at least in the low season- as the difference between the income and costs might mean black rather than red. The A346 fuel bill for the route is significantly higher,
more crew members are required -who need to be paid salaries and accommodation- and even the airport fees are
higher.

But also remember that the A346 sits a lot more passengers than the A343 does, and Y loads have been consistent on being very high, plus the fact that it can take a lot more cargo. If Y loads were considerably weaker during the low season it would of course be more profitable to fly the A343.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14587 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 12):
Certainly using another aircraft could mean the A343, but I wouldn't think it would need a longer runway to take off fully loaded, AF has never complained about this and it's roughly the same distance to CDG.

According to the great circle mapper, the difference in distance between BOG-CDG and BOG-FRA is of 450Km.
And that is enough to make all the difference.

An extra 450 Km means at least 40 more min of fuel burning, which at ~7500 Kg/hour on the A343 would mean having to take off with at least 5 tonnes of extra fuel. And that would be around 40 pax and their luggage or a whole a cargo load (LH's has transported around 4 tonnes of cargo per flight ex BOG -though over 10t in the other direction).

Incidently, from Aerocivil's figures, I see that AF carried less than 1t per flight ex BOG, though the figure is about 11t in the other direction.

Even on the 15t mark, I don't think that capacity of A346 vs A343 is relevant. The space is there for the cargo, if only it could be lifted.

On pax, LH's LF's has been 79% Jan to April. I am sure in the peak season it would have been higher, but there's definitely a few months where the loads would have happily fitted on an A343.


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14565 times:
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How often does AV/TACA recieve new aircraft? Any chance to see a Central American expanssion?


avi8
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14499 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 13):
On pax, LH's LF's has been 79% Jan to April. I am sure in the peak season it would have been higher, but there's definitely a few months where the loads would have happily fitted on an A343.

I can't agree that a 79% load factor could fit on an A343, as most of these seats are Y passengers. The A343 would never be able to carry those Y volumes, also hurting the bottom line.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 13):
According to the great circle mapper, the difference in distance between BOG-CDG and BOG-FRA is of 450Km.
And that is enough to make all the difference.

That is true. I thought the difference was minimal.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 14):
How often does AV/TACA recieve new aircraft? Any chance to see a Central American expanssion?

There really isn't a fix schedule for receiving aircraft, but they are taking in quite a few this year. On the other hand, I have no idea if there will be a Central American expansion, they seem to be focused on BOG and LIM right now. I'm guessing they will need to define the whole SAL/SJO hub situation first.

On other news, Avianca is to start flying daily to FLA (Florencia, department of Caquetá) on Fokker 50 aircraft by the end of september, replacing AIRES's service which was 11x weekly on Dash 8-Q200s. Great for the region of Caquetá, which has been dependent on the very unreliable Satena and their out of reach prices since AIRES quit the route.

http://www.ellider.com.co/2011/08/09/avianca-si-volara-al-caqueta/

Also, it seems that jet service is back in AXM on 2 of the 6 daily rotations which will be flown by A318s.

[Edited 2011-08-10 08:34:31]

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14463 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
I can't agree that a 79% load factor could fit on an A343, as most of these seats are Y passengers. The A343 would never be able to carry those Y volumes, also hurting the bottom line.

Well, the version of the A346 that LH was using to BOG had 238 Y seats, the 2 class A343 has a capacity of 222.

But in any case, an airline might prefer to sell less Y seats if it's making a pittance on some fares anyway. By controlling demand, the yields can go up.

I am not the one lamenting that LH has limited flexibility on the aircraft it uses to BOG, and wishing it could use another. It is the airline's general manager for its Colombian operation.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14418 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 16):
It is the airline's general manager for its Colombian operation.

It's in a six month old interview and he's not regretting anything. He just says it might make things more flexible if the runway was extended, which is not going to happen and they knew this form the moment they started operating. It's like saying "well it would be profitable is the price of fuel wasn't at $X per gallon and everyone paid $5000 to fly on a two hour flight in Y".

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 16):
Well, the version of the A346 that LH was using to BOG had 238 Y seats, the 2 class A343 has a capacity of 222.

The new A340-600 has 270Y seats and loads have kept equally strong. 48 more seats than the A343. LH has kept strong, and will only keep on getting stronger when a wider codeshare with AVTA comes into effect. The only issue they had was weak loads in J some months ago, which they resolved by sending a less premium configured A346.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14384 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
It's in a six month old interview

4 months.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
The new A340-600 has 270Y seats and loads have kept equally strong

It's the peak season. lets see what happens next month, and the ones after that.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
LH has kept strong, and will only keep on getting stronger when a wider codeshare with AVTA comes into effect. The only issue they had was weak loads in J some months ago, which they resolved by sending a less premium configured A346

I trust that the feeding of pax to the likes of LIM/UIO/PTY/SJO apart from diferent Colombian cities, reinforced with LH codes on those flights, will ensure that this route prospers for LH, but I don't believe its anywhere a financial sucess as yet.
They have to persevere in any case, as LH have limited choice of gateways to northern South America and Central America.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14297 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Thread starter):
LGW and LHR and Efromovich has given a launch date of no longer than the first quarter of 2012, good for them! Strong rumors on the relaunch of LAX have been circling around too. There is also AIRES' new domestic schedules which are giving travelers a lot more flexibility (eg CTG went from 4 daily to 6 daily, CUC from three daily to four...) while Copa Colombia is backing off from the market. Expectation is high towards the entrance of VivaColombia too.

If AV were to re-start LAX, what type of a/c would they utilize? Is there any chance we might see AV pickup a couple of the young CO 762ERs that have been or are being retired?


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14271 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 19):
If AV were to re-start LAX, what type of a/c would they utilize? Is there any chance we might see AV pickup a couple of the young CO 762ERs that have been or are being retired?

It would most likely be operated by A330, and maybe 787s in a couple of years.
No chance of AV getting 767s again. They actually had to pay penalties in some cases to get rid of all of theirs before the leases had expired.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14220 times:

Speaking about the presence of LH in Colombia, Avianca is already operating a code-share service on behalf of LH in selected routes:

Bogota - Barranquilla
Bogota - Bucaramanga
Bogota - Cali
Bogota - Cartagena
Bogota - Lima
Bogota - Medellin
Bogota - Pereira

The first step seems to be focused into the domestic Colombian market.
BOG-LIM appears as the only international segment operated by AV as part of the code-share cooperation.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14136 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 19):
If AV were to re-start LAX, what type of a/c would they utilize? Is there any chance we might see AV pickup a couple of the young CO 762ERs that have been or are being retired?

Why would they do that? The 767 is a long gone model. If the route restarts, it will be operated on the A330, though it would probably go with 3 or 4 weekly flights instead of 5.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 21):
The first step seems to be focused into the domestic Colombian market.
BOG-LIM appears as the only international segment operated by AV as part of the code-share cooperation.

Indeed, but feed form other destinations is already present too (the second SJO-BOG flight is perfectly timed for those). I'm guessing the next codeshares to come will be on flights to Ecuador and Central America, probably SCL too.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14043 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 14):
How often does AV/TACA receive new aircraft?


Taken from an old Colombian aviation thread and dated on March 15th 2011:

Plan for fleet renovation AVIANCA-TACA 2011 - 2015



.................2011.......2012.......2013.......2014........2015......TOTAL

E-190...........2............0...............0.............0..............0...............2
A-319...........0............7...............3.............4..............0..............14
A-320...........9............7...............5.............5..............4..............25
A-330...........2............3...............0.............0..............0................5
B-787..........................................4.............................8..............12

TOTAL.........13..........17...........12.............9.............12




.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 22):
I'm guessing the next codeshares to come will be on flights to Ecuador and Central America


That makes sense. I don't think LH would fly to Ecuador and Central America soon.
In my view, LH FRA-BOG on a daily basis would happen first !




.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 22):
probably SCL too.


Hmmm...
Rumor has it that LH may return to Lima later and connections might be easier from LIM than BOG.
TAM already flies the GRU-SCL segment on behalf of Lufthansa, in order to match those outbound flights from Sao Paulo operated by LH.


Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13984 times:

A new aircraft for Tampa Cargo

Tampa cargo has acquired a 767-300F, previously on service for ANA Cargo registered as JA601F

It's Tampa's 5th 767, though its first -300 series as the 4 others are -200s which were converted after having operated as passenger airliners.
In contrast, the newest member of Tampa's fleet was built as a freighter in 2002 c/n 3340.

The airplane was ferried in an all white colour scheme via LAX to Tampa's base in Medellin, where it will be painted. Its new registration is N771QT.

In previous months Tampa requested authorities for new routes, including St Louis and London. The increase in capacity that the new airplane provides will allow them to expand.


25 Post contains links 777jaah : Good news for the airlne. I don't get why St louis. Can anyone provide the reason of this? So, AV can fly the 330 with pax to LON and QT take care of
26 Summa767 : I guess it's a big cargo hub. QT did actually receive authorisation from the US DOT to serve St Louis (both MidAmerican and Lambert/St. Louis Interna
27 RCS763AV : that's great, they need to acquire some volume in order to survive in the business. Diversification away from MIA is also good. Probably, but that do
28 WesternA318 : Wow, BOG-STL? Is there that much cargo demand between Colombia and the Midwest US? Or would Tampa have a cargo code-share with say...FedEx/UPS? On th
29 Post contains links danimarroquin : http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/traffic/m...ulles-international-airport-081111 more about the Av's A319 at IAD , it seems that it was a big load of cocaine
30 Post contains links RCS763AV : Here are some interesting figures from Aerocivil for the first six months of 2011: http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...te-el-primer-semestre-de-201
31 laca773 : Thanks for the information, Summa767. I didn't realize AV returned the 762ERs before their leases expired. Was this because they had gotten way too e
32 Summa767 : Apparently so. I don't know figures, but it has been said that the cost per seat of the A330 is much more favourable than that of the 767s. However,
33 WesternA318 : It'd be the only way I would think, or they may be banking that some Asian cargo company will still come to STL and hub it for freighters. Either way
34 777jaah : This might be a good thing for the LON flight?? Maybe a BOG-SDQ-LON?? Aires leaving the LCC model has left an increase in fares, and obviuously, a dr
35 RCS763AV : Not offering a non-stop would by highly uncompetitive, as all other Colombia-Europe flights are. Where I could see a market is leisure airlines flyin
36 777jaah : I think the strong rainy season and the collapse of many roads led to a spike in air travel. Hopefully, Viva can keep most of those pax in the air in
37 Bogota : Domestic air travel is still growing, just not at the rate it did last year. Those passengers are still flying at very good prices, they will go back
38 Post contains links Summa767 : It was reported in the last few days that June saw a decrease in domestic passenger numbers. The accrued totals for the year so far still are positiv
39 Bogota : Maybe you are right, but maybe the other factors also had to do with it. But anyhow the facts show that domestic travel has grown in general througho
40 RCS763AV : Indeed, see post 30. 4C and CM accounted for most of the decrease. 9N also saw a decrease in their numbers. Not in June, and probably not for the res
41 Bogota : In June you may be right, but throughout the year traffic has grown 6,63%. This is like looking the half empty or half full glass, could it not just
42 Summa767 : There are different factors, but the sharp decrease in domestc traffic in June is undeniable. The truth is that growth has been less and less as the y
43 RCS763AV : Less seats at low prices means higher average fares, even tough they might still exist, they are scarce. I would love to see a 140 thousand ticket th
44 Bogota : Absolutely undeniable, but if you put into account the huge increase last year and the fares available then, the decrease looks like a stabilization
45 Summa767 : Already loaded from Sep 20th for 10 days on most of the flights mentioned, and some details missing, but I guess that this coming weekend the program
46 Bogota : Well maybe look again, just checked on Aires site 179 thousand for one sector and 128 thousand for the return sector both in early December. And that
47 777jaah : What bothers me, is buying flights to BAQ for around 600.000 pesos, as a ECONO fare. And that was 2 weeks ago in AV. And trust me, one like FLEXI wen
48 Bogota : Really not sure when you were searching for, just searched in Avianca and return to Barranquilla is between 300,000 and 350,000 depending on the date
49 RCS763AV : I'm talking about roundtrip fares. And the 1 peso fares led to 120000 fares roundtrip, not one-way but whatever. A 250000 peso ticket to the Coffee A
50 Post contains links Summa767 : It does take time to get a return on a large investment, that is natural. And yet, Aires was claiming that they were already profitable within a year
51 Bogota : Wrong, the 1 peso fare led to 100 thousand ticket single journey almost at its cheapest and only for short hops, plus that only included a few seats,
52 Post contains links 777jaah : It was kind of last minute, but what bothers me, is that it was sold under ECONO class fare. Two sides of the story, my sources close to the other si
53 Bogota : That is wrong, they should simply put sold out and sell the next fare. Saying that, Econo fares at peak times such as early morinings or 6-7 p.m. are
54 777jaah : This was the 9am flight. Not very atractive to biz travellers. But my company wasn't going to pay for the FLEXI or SUPER FLEXI fares inthe earlier fl
55 RCS763AV : I paid 127.000 pesos to go to Armenia in February 2010. I'm not making this up. Bums as in butts for god's sake do you really think I would say somet
56 kiwiandrew : I think that you will find that RCS763AV is using the English word 'bums' and you are misreading it with the American meaning. Bums on the planes ( o
57 Bogota : Good for your company, I had people in mine trying to pay extra fares at my expense so they could get freebee miles on Avianca. Thank goodness for th
58 Summa767 : The act with the decisions taken at Aerocivil's July 19th meeting have been published. The main decisions are that Copa Colombia lost 3 of its 7 frequ
59 Post contains links RCS763AV : It's ok? Bum is a word for a person's rear-end in english and instead of thinking the worse you could have given it a thought. It's not a bad choice
60 clo1973 : I couldn´t disagree more with your statement. If CM is willing to try int´l routes different other than PTY...they should have apply for CLO-MDE-EW
61 Summa767 : I think you misunderstood. I did not say that P5/CM were intent on operating international routes out of MDE, but that *despite" concentrating on a o
62 RCS763AV : Probably if they indeed cancel it altogether, but wasn't the new BOG-MDE-JFK flight going to stay year round?
63 AF086 : Yesterday the brazilian ANAC published AV's request: EFF 18OCT11 AV260 332 1-3--6- GIG 0930 BOG 1245 AV261 332 -2--5-7 BOG 2235 GIG 0745+1 All times
64 Summa767 : The A330 is a welcome surprise on the route after the applications on the colombian side only mentioned the A319. I suspect that apart from the A330'
65 RCS763AV : Indeed, it's great news but it also must have to do with the fact that J class demand will be very strong on the route. They must also be hoping for
66 Post contains links RCS763AV : LAN is adding two extra weekly frequencies on their BOG-SCL route, flight numbers LA572/73. The first one becomes operational on the last week of nove
67 Post contains links TBYO787 : an AA 757-200 doing Flight AA922 from VVI to MIA made an emergency landing in BAQ. here is the link: http://www.elheraldo.co/local/boeing...e-emergenc
68 wingedtaurus : How many flights between BOG and MEX?
69 RCS763AV : Avianca flies 3x daily (2x A320, 1x A319) AeroMéxico flies 1x daily (738) and Copa Airlines Colombia flies 1x daily too (73G) So 5 flights it is. It
70 wingedtaurus : Thanks RCS763AV, that's a lot of seats! AM was also trying to fly to EOH a year ago, maybe that's another route to be tested.
71 RCS763AV : EOH is just a regional airport close to downtown Medellín, AM was going to fly to MDE, but that was in the pre-MX demise days where they deemed BOG
72 RCS763AV : In the new AV-UA codeshare thread, there's mention of MDE-JFK as being part of the deal. Could this mean that the flight will be staying year-round? D
73 Post contains links RCS763AV : BOG airspace to be restructured between september 2011 until 2012: http://www.elespectador.com/economia...racion-del-espacio-aereo-de-bogota According
74 jfk777 : AA could fly to more of Colombia, how they can't make BAQ work is beyond me, even 3 times week. Cartagena is also a city they should fly to, once dai
75 Post contains links RCS763AV : BOG-MIA has the same amount of operators than EZE-MIA: 3. There is consistent competition from FLL though with NK and 4C (AV has both stations). What
76 clo1973 : CM is starting its fourth flight between CLO - PTY on Dec. 15th: CM*668 CLO-PTY 05:24-06:52 E90 (Y106) CM*669 PTY-CLO 21:32-22:37 E90 (Y106) Operation
77 jfk777 : FLL is the same market as Miami, since Spirit flies from FLL its the same as MIA to most of the local market. EZE doesn"t have the LCC airline that a
78 RCS763AV : FLL is NOT the same market as MIA. FLL has been the lower-end airport in south florida form Colombia, ever since ACES started flying the route in 200
79 RCS763AV : Along with this nice upgrade, CM will also be upping frequencies on the ADZ and BGA routes to 5 and 4 weekly flights, respectively. I'm glad to see B
80 Post contains links danimarroquin : this news just came out of the even !!!! TAMPA CARGO on a final decition to adquire 4 A330Fs I seems that a chinese airline cancelled there order for
81 777jaah : You realize AV also ordered the NEO? I don't thnk AA will have such an upper hend in that matter against AV. They've been in negotiations for a while
82 RCS763AV : Yes I know, but there will be no widebodies delivered in 2013. Just to make clear, I was quoting jfk777 on this idea, so the quote is not on me, as I
83 jfk777 : Under the current German Efromovich ownership Avianca "cares" about its passengers which is good. But historically speaking all my awful plane trips
84 RCS763AV : So what? That's the point of the discussion: AA now has real competitors in the latin airlines and has no idea what to do with them as their product
85 777jaah : I was also quoting jfk777. Weird glitch in the system. Honestly, AV had its act together after it was taken by Efromovich, the years before that, it
86 jfk777 : What is so inferior about AA's product from BOG to MIA ? Their 757's have a few years on them but what is it passengers are expecting ? Club World se
87 SJOtoLIR : The merger [AV-TA] has been quite successful ! I've read in other thread that [AV-TA] was more profitable than AM last year. . Copa Airlines Colombia
88 RCS763AV : Indeed, but there are some glitches which I have found unacceptable, for example, the horrible thing the call an FF programme: Lifemiles. The worst c
89 Post contains links RCS763AV : The first confirmed regional expansion from BOG by AV, an eighth daily flight to Manizales (MZL) and a fourth daily flight to Ibagué (IBE) have start
90 RICARIZA : I travel every two weeks (at least) between US and Colombia in American and the only thing that I can se truthful from your statements is the lack of
91 Post contains images laca773 : . What has helped AV is AA's competition in the market and the ownership change. He does actually care and has hit the market at full speed, showing
92 RCS763AV : I agree to disagree here. The worn out seats and damaged screens on the aircraft plus the 70s style ceilings do put AA in an inferior position. The a
93 Post contains links RCS763AV : Air Europa has published the schedule for their MAD-CTG flights, 3x a week on B767-300ER aircraft: Air Europa – Flight 21 3:35p MAD Madrid, Spain 6:
94 jfk777 : Colombia is just one country with a few flights from FLL, the only AV flight is from BOG. The generlal dynamic of the FLL airport is an LCC airport b
95 Avianca : ever flown on AI? usualy you get a very good inflight service!
96 RCS763AV : I have never flown on AI, i'm just making an example based of some trip reports I have read and the ratings they get from specialized publications. T
97 Avianca : thats exactly why I wonder that you mentioned AI.... BTW, how is AV doing on the MDE-MAD flights, can we see a soon upgrade on that route?
98 Summa767 : Fantastic news indeed! The fourth Clombian city to have a non-stop link with Madrid. I was not expecting a non stop flight with 3 weekly frequencies
99 RCS763AV : If you care enough to read my post again you will probably understand. No need for sarcastic responses. To be honest neither was I. I know it was ann
100 jfk777 : Many passengers from the smaller cities like Armenia, perreria and Bucaramanga feed through BOG, that is the way its been for years unless Spirit sta
101 Post contains links RCS763AV : You mean Pereira. And anyway, I don't understand what this has to do with the point: FLL is the low-yield market, MIA is the high-yield market. Colom
102 jfk777 : IF you live in Pereira or go there you don't give a hoot which airport in the South Florida area the airline flies from, you are taking the nonstop a
103 RCS763AV : MIA is a high yield market, FLL is not. The travel public to FLL is different than MIA. There is more of a premium in the passengers flying to MIA th
104 jfk777 : Dear 763AV, I get that FLL is low yield and MIA is NOT, but I look at it as the entire market, domestic US and international from all markets not jus
105 Post contains links and images RCS763AV : Look at it however you may, FLL is cheaper to fly in and out of than MIA. Flights to colombia are also cheaper from FLL than MIA and premium traffic
106 SJOtoLIR : Moves on Copa Airlines Colombia: P5 PTY-BGA. 3x to 4x weekly P5 PTY-CLO. 21x to 26x weekly P5 PTY-ADZ. 4x to 5x weekly P5 BOG-PTY-SAP 7x weekly: Cance
107 RCS763AV : Indeed! Some of those were announced in earlier posts. Why was BOG-PTY-SAP cancelled though? BOG will retain the 6 daily frequencies though. Anyways,
108 SJOtoLIR : I ignore further detail on that. The route was announced when Copa Airlines deployed the dedicated CM PTY-TGU 7x weekly complementing CM PTY-SJO-SAP
109 clo1973 : What would be the point?..current 7x operation (non-stop and through PTY) is with a LF of 30-35%.
110 Summa767 : I think that the PTY stop is the one likely to go as CM and AV/TA will most likely codeshare on that route (among others), and more frequencies non-s
111 RCS763AV : You might mean high fares at low loads, but I agree completely. If they make an effort at advertising connections in SJO better and the tourism agenc
112 Post contains images Summa767 : I do, I do! Talking of codeshare, it is taking long for the AV-TA and CM codeshares to happen. There are even some strange things, like AV does not e
113 Post contains links RCS763AV : Here's a pretty great article that pretty much resumes the state of colombian aviation today: http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-at-new-lan-subsi
114 AA767LOVER : TA prefers low fares to low loads? You call TA's fares low? Man, they're highway robbery!!!
115 Summa767 : It's certainly robbery on the MDE-SJO route. They ask for US$600 minimum on a 1 h 45 ' flight! Typically it's over $700 though. So, in this case they
116 RCS763AV : TA prefers high fares and low loads is what is being said. That's just stupid. A ticket to MAD costs around $1000-1300 from MDE and it's a hell lot o
117 Summa767 : Wow, thanks for that. I had not read Baldaza's comments. I was actually expecting Spirit to ask not only for CLO, but for more service to BOG and eve
118 Post contains links RCS763AV : Here's a video of the first ever Dash 8-Q400 in LAN colours!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNxN5eSieYM It looks great IMO. From today, AIRES will st
119 clo1973 : Let´s look LF for Taca/Lan in their CLO/MDE routes (this is March, which is what I have): CLO-UIO-LIM (Lan) 51% CLO-GYE-LIM (Taca) 50% MDE-UIO-LIM (
120 RCS763AV : Let's look at a historical of the loads and you'll know what I mean. Anyway, no one is comparing anything here and all we're saying is TACA prefers t
121 SJOtoLIR : Same with SJO-BOG and back where fares start at US 650+ or even more. Copa Airlines also offers exorbitant fares for the round-trip [CM SJO-PTY and t
122 Post contains links RCS763AV : Actually, buying tickets to Panama on Copa is super expensive too. unless it's on some kind of tour package it's very expensive to go to there. After
123 SJOtoLIR : AV MDE-CTG 3x daily is upgrading their services introducing the 318 there. No more F50s in such route. Regards.
124 Summa767 : Very good news. At the same time, the 1 x daily MDE-SMR service also changes to A318, as it's a rotation of the same aircraft that does MDE-CTG. MDE-
125 Post contains links RCS763AV : Ecuadorian state carrier TAME is planning latin american expansion, which includes BOG in the first quarter of 2012: http://www.eltiempo.com/economia/
126 Summa767 : New international routes for Avianca Loaded on Amadeus timetables are Avianca's new services to Rio de Janeiro and La Paz, Bolivia Rio de Janeiro, Bra
127 777jaah : I thought this one was going to take a bit longer.....I guess A319 would be the choice for the route?? Or maybe an 318 to avoid any payload restricti
128 Summa767 : Forgot to mention the a/c type. It will be on A319. 3.5 hours. Well, the flight arrives in BOG at 7.30 am, so pax would have to wait till 3 pm for th
129 RCS763AV : It is indeed a bold bet, but quite a good one and definitely some out of the box thinking which is quite uncommon for AV. Matching it for IAD connect
130 Summa767 : Indeed so, at at least that is how it is programmed on reservations systems.
131 777jaah : Last few I took the red eye to JFK, and bth ways, lots of brazilians travelling in J. Both flights, J cabin had 100% loads. Also a friend said the sa
132 RCS763AV : SO B6 and NK have filed for a total of 21 frequencies with the DOT, all of them to be on the BOG-FLL route. I'm glad to see B6 entering the market as
133 Post contains links and images RCS763AV : The first 737 in LAN colours is already operating!!! View Large View MediumPhoto © Andres Ramirez
134 turk223 : I wonder if they did an interior chnage-out... How long before the 737s exit the fleet?
135 RCS763AV : I don't think so, since they will start leaving next year.
136 Post contains links RCS763AV : As part of AV's latest domestic expansion, new frequencies to CLO and AXM were also added along the previously announced additions to NVA, MZL, CUC, P
137 Bogota : Up to what I heard the interior was fully redone as per LAN standard.
138 Post contains links RCS763AV : The new routes to LPB and GIG are on sale as of now on avianca.com: introductory fares starting at $499 for LPB and $684 for GIG, roundtrip. http://ww
139 SJOtoLIR : The [LPB-BOG] northbound sector will be the longest route out of La Paz. LPB has been poorly served in the past, being LIM the most common destinatio
140 RCS763AV : Wow! I did not notice that. Surely, the A319-115LR will be used on these flights, so bolivians will have PTV's available. Also, this will probably be
141 Post contains links RCS763AV : AIRES (LAN Colombia) got their IOSA certification and became official members of IATA yesterday, are aiming for the international market and there's c
142 Post contains links RCS763AV : BOG hit another record in daily operations last friday, with 1.012 flights: http://www.radiosantafe.com/2011/09/...pero-record-de-operaciones-aereas/
143 Post contains links Summa767 : Tampa Colombia has ordered 4 A330-200Fs, according to press reports Avianca-Taca's dedicated cargo divisionwould have 4 Airbus A330-200Fs delivered fr
144 danimarroquin : sweet for TAMPA , but hope they come as Av cargo in red colors !
145 Post contains links RCS763AV : Great! Now that we will most likely loose 4C on the route it's good to keep the competition steady. So these were the recently rumored planes, what a
146 RICARIZA : Apparently Tampa Cargo will keep its name and livery. An executive from Avianca Express told me that it doesn't seem to be plans for "Avianca Cargo".
147 Post contains links RCS763AV : So, now that NK has been awarded the frequencies by the DOT, they will surely enter the Colombia-Ecuador and Colombia-Perú markets. I can see a clear
148 Summa767 : Interjet has applied to fly MEX-BOG. The application will be considered on 10th October at Aerocivil's public audience. Interjet intends to fly daily
149 RCS763AV : So the rumors become true. Is there an intended start up date? This will surely bring fares down, now it's impossible to get anything below $600 whic
150 Post contains links RCS763AV : In order to lower airfares the government will eliminate the mandatory fuel surcharge that was imposed on the fares, and as another measure to attract
151 Post contains images clo1973 : Picture from today, while flying PTY-CLO. What is seen on the right side is Bahia Malaga and in the right side Bahia de Buenaventura both in the Pacif
152 SJOtoLIR : The new flight will operate as thrice a week. Effective: November 16th. As a result, TA SAL-BOG goes from 7x to 10x weekly offering better connectivi
153 Post contains links RCS763AV : Both flights are clearly aimed at feeding the SAL hub, I wonder if there is a big enough market from El Salvador to have a flight that feeds BOG? Avi
154 avi8 : Would a BOG-GUA flight be profitable if it were to operating a few times per week? There is demand for a flight and TACA could make it happen if it ti
155 Bogota : Next Wednesday October 5th the first two Airbus A-320 that will operate as LAN Colombia will arrive at BOG around noon. On board are all the board of
156 RCS763AV : I do think there is some strong-ish demand on the tourism sector as well as some corporate (Grupo Aval, Energía de Bogotá etc), and the flight coul
157 Summa767 : LAN's international destinations from BOG (and hopefully to MIA from other cities) are certainly something to look forward to. As to the hub becoming
158 Bogota : The planes will arrive on thursday, not wednesday. My bad. About the most important maybe 2 or maybe 3 most important. Any how my opinion really does
159 Post contains links RCS763AV : Indeed. That is issue #1. Growth at BOG will be limited by the infrastructure. Yes, specially if the open new destinations outside the usual ones (Sp
160 Summa767 : I am sure that LAN have big plans for BOG, given that it will be the northernmost hub to date, and so will be able to reach parts where they hardly c
161 turk223 : Actually, this confirms my confusion about when the new terminal will be completed; when is the "new Eldorado" expected to be opened?
162 Summa767 : That would be sometime 2014, in theory. And it would be a whole new Eldorado. But next year should see the completion of a new "international" termin
163 RCS763AV : The domestic concourse has 11 finger fates plus two gates for regional operations. Also, there is a contingency plan designed to mitigate the impact
164 777jaah : The Aif Force base should be moved out of Bogota. copy Madrid's model, of a military base out of civilian airports and build in that space the intern
165 Bogota : Exactly, other LA hubs are also reaching their limit quite fast but the real interest in BOG has to do with its geographical position and a very larg
166 Summa767 : I have heard about some big tents as terminals as an interim. I guess that will have to do. I just hope that they think through all that is needed in
167 Bogota : LAN will grow as fast as it is possible for them to do it, given the growth of the market, the availability of planes and the infrastructure that BOG
168 RCS763AV : AV has launched a great startup fare for GIG, it's now 498 USD r/t. But apparently the flight will ultimately be flown by A319s, so i'm guessing the s
169 pecevanne : AVIANCA is growing so fast and they are hiring around 15 Mexican pilots to help them during initial courses . Some of them are now flying in flights i
170 Avi8 : How is LAN managing to give aircraft to LAN colombia? Are they receiving new ones? How many more will they get?
171 Summa767 : Indeed, timescale is key, as BOG will not get a half decent infrastructure until about 2015. LAN can, however, start by taking advantage of currently
172 RCS763AV : That's because they took so many ex-MX A319s. Great. I hope though Avianca gets them. There needs to be at least a daily option on one operator for t
173 Summa767 : That is good to hear. I know that there are restrictions in the hiring of non-colombian pilots in the country's airlines. I believe that that can nev
174 Post contains links RCS763AV : AR has been rumoured to be starting a 4th weekly frequency to BOG. Let's see how that goes. And while aerocivil does tend to be salomonic when granti
175 AA767LOVER : Are 767s still a part of AV's fleet? On what routes are they still employed? The last OAG I have is for March 2011. Since then, I'm not sure if 767's
176 Avi8 : What will the airline be called? What livery will they use?
177 RCS763AV : No one knows that, but it will most likely be called Avianca and have a completely new livery. Not for at least 4 months. The last one to retire was
178 AA767LOVER : Forgot to ask when is the projected date of entry to STAR ALLIANCE - for AV/TA and COPA?
179 turk223 : This is actually a bit surprsing...I thought that the objective was to maintain the two identities! At first I was disappointed - I was hoping for Av
180 airliner777 : The 767s are no longer part of Avianca's fleet anymore. Most of the routes have been replaced by A330s. The last 767 flying was N984AN. Rgrds, Airlin
181 RCS763AV : The unification of the brands was announced back when they announced their entry into Star Alliance...there's nothing new here. And a new corporate i
182 av757 : The unification and common corporate branding of AV/TA has been going on inside the company ever since they announced joining Star Alliance. Many new
183 turk223 : That is a huge undertaking! And. what a huge price tag... Are the truly going to have the entire combined AV/TA fleet changed out by mid-2012? Look a
184 RCS763AV : He means the change will start occurring in mid-2012. And I guess it will take them a very short time as Avianca has been known for very fast brand t
185 turk223 : I agree - AV is very "good" with its branding. I always appreciate the consistency - the AV brand is easily recognized and throughout the product. Th
186 Post contains links RCS763AV : Maybe. I also have this feeling that the guacamayas (parrots) will be the bird of choice for the new livery, they exist in Colombia as well as centra
187 SJOtoLIR : And we cannot ignore 2K AeroGal. . For example, the Life Miles program. Regards.
188 laca773 : Is there a decent chance we'll see LAN start BOG-LAX? They have a good presence and following in the markets they serve from LAX. Will LAN only be fl
189 SCL767 : Yes, currently LAN is the only South American carrier operating into LAX, linking LAX with EZE, LIM and SCL. Also, LAN Cargo currently operates cargo
190 Summa767 : What new frequencies? As far as I can see they only 5 daily frequencies between BOG and CLO, an they will still only have 5 after Wednesday when the
191 Post contains links SCL767 : The A-320s will start to operate on the BOG-CLO route starting this Wednesday. The BOG-CLO route will operate 6x daily Monday-Friday starting in Dece
192 Summa767 : December is quite different from this Wednesday..
193 Post contains links and images SCL767 : Regardless, with the A-320s being deployed on the BOG-CLO route this Wednesday, the route will experience an increase in capacity with more daily sea
194 RCS763AV : It used to be flown up to 7x daily before Avianca started the route, even then, they kept flying it 5x daily until now. What a shame. On the other ha
195 SCL767 : The good news is that LAN will increase frequency on more routes once Aires' entire fleet is repainted with LAN's livery. The two A-320s are being de
196 turk223 : Just as a somewhat-connected comment to the LAN Colombia postings; I just bought a ticket MIA-MDE for January 1 and the best fare ended up being LA MI
197 SCL767 : It's due to the fact that LAN hasn't applied the LA code to Aires' flights as yet and those flights have not been loaded into LAN's system as yet. Th
198 RCS763AV : Actually, cargo on BOG-LAX has never been strong. The passenger market is solid as I said before. Oh so nothing official has been said. LAN will sure
199 SCL767 : Actually, it is strong for LAN's cargo affiliate, MAS Air. MAS Air currently operates BOG-LAX 4x weekly (B-767-300F). LAN's primary focus is the comb
200 Avianca : sorry this is not true, cargo was always very strong, not only from Colombia itsels, also specially for transit cargo ex UIO
201 SCL767 : Yep, this month UIO-BOG-MIA-AMS operates 4x weekly with the B-777F and weekly with the B-763F, allowing connections to LAX via BOG on certain days. M
202 laca773 : Thanks, SCL767. I already knew this. I live just a few miles north of LAX and have flown on LAN before. They have a great product across the board. I
203 SCL767 : Last time I checked, AV was struggling on their daily MDE-JFK route which was operating daily year-round. Now it looks like AV can only operate it fo
204 Summa767 : In the colombian context, a regional route is one to small *regional* airports, the kind that would most likely be served by a turbo prop or a *regio
205 SCL767 : Like you said, when it "used to make money". Obviously those routes were not making money for Aires, just like the majority of Aires' international r
206 Post contains links Summa767 : Oh please, stop all that twisting that you do. Aires is a long established airline that used to make a profit on its turbo prop ops *until* it decide
207 SCL767 : How do you know that Aires is still "hemorrhaging" money. Is it not clear that LAN is changing Aires' model. I have repeated this so many times. LAN
208 Avianca : no doubt that AV would deserve the frequencies, they are flying to Argentina since decades! I am a LAN fan but not on the regional A-319 service, a s
209 SCL767 : I wouldn't be surprised if AV were awarded the frequencies. Luckily LAN has an Argentine affiliate that may also apply for frequencies as well. As yo
210 Avianca : well also without BD, LHR would be still a * hub. The mayor part ot * airlines are present @ LHR and its a perfect hub and no way AV would go to LGW
211 SCL767 : I would say without BD, LHR would be more of a * focus city. Yes, A3, AC, UA/CO, CA, LH/LX, LO, NH, NZ, SAA, SK, SQ, TG, TK, etc. all serve LHR, but
212 SJOtoLIR : TACA will upgrade the BOG-LAX service from 7x to 10x weekly allowing better connectivity: TA 291...............SAL 19:30...........BOG 23:30.........
213 RCS763AV : I meant regional colombian routes as everyone else understood in this forum. Cargo was never very strong for any of the passenger flights operated by
214 SCL767 : That seems rather strange given that BOG handles A LOT of cargo daily! Let me guess, shortage of a/c? H2 had already captured the limited O&D tra
215 Summa767 : I find it hilarious that you would think that LAN can count on BA's slots, even new ones which is paying good money for. If LAN wants them, it will n
216 SCL767 : BA could use those slots to increase its presence in South America. BA used to operate into BOG and can tap into the VFR market without having to rel
217 SJOtoLIR : I don't get that point. Would you elaborate it a bit more? TA LIM-ANF was usually operated as thrice a week with the 100-seater E90 whereas H2 SCL-AN
218 SCL767 : VFR traffic to/from ANF and the rest of Northern Chile typically travel to regional destinations nearby such as AQP, LPB, SLA, VVI, etc. Besides LIM,
219 Summa767 : JV may happen, who knows.. But let's not venture into hypothetical situations, but rather keep to the real ones. IAG have MAD, which is their hub for
220 Post contains links SCL767 : This is a great article about the future possibilities of LATAM: "LATAM's next strategic step could be pursuing a merger or acquisition in Europe - a
221 RCS763AV : BOG's cargo goes to other destinations rather than the west coast of the United States. The airlines, Avianca included, haul A LOT of cargo to those
222 Summa767 : Again, pure speculation. It may be that TAM wants TAP (and that would be a good fit), but IAG want it for themselves too. I very much doubt that BA w
223 SCL767 : And why is that? You don't think that IAG would like to deepen ties with LATAM and have unparalleled access to one of the most important markets in t
224 Summa767 : More codeshares sure. Ownership ties no. Viable it may be, but BA has plenty of others that would come first. If LAN want to do it, let them. Yes, bu
225 SCL767 : If that is the case, then perhaps the Lufthansa Group would want to acquire TAP in a JV with LATAM. After all, LATAM could offer the Star Alliance a
226 Summa767 : What a silly proposition. Erm not.. I am afraid that LAN wil have to remain stuck in OneWorld. Sorry.
227 SCL767 : Really, you don't think that LH would like to keep both TAM and TAP in the Star Alliance? I would think that both alliances are currently in deep neg
228 Summa767 : LH have said that they have had enough of shopping, and can't wait to offload BD. Surely they would like to keep TAP and TAM in Star, but I am sure t
229 SCL767 : Can LH even afford to acquire TP? Both IAG and LATAM can; which is why I believe that IAG and LATAM have a lot in common and will have a very close a
230 Summa767 : Of course. LH has deep pockets, but they have said that they are satisfied with having Swiss, Austrian and Brussels Airlines, and having stakes in ma
231 SCL767 : LAN has been a full member of the oneworld alliance for over 11 years and became the first and only South American carrier to gain ATI with a U.S. ca
232 Avianca : Avianca, is moving since years a lot of cargo in the bellys. Also you are mentioning that the west coast was noth strong in the past, thats not true.
233 Post contains images 777jaah : Good topic for another thread, you are free to start it, but stop hijacking this one. Yes, but have you seen the airlines that move that cargo?? Ther
234 Post contains links TBYO787 : going back into our topic: I just found this notice on Insel Air website. They intend to fly to BAQ soon. http://www.fly-inselair.com/press-re...meto-
235 turk223 : BAQ? Nope. That's Barranquilla. You mean BRM for Barquisimeto...
236 Avi8 : Would GUA be the next possible Central American route? They could offer it a few times a week leaving alittle space for connections in either SAL or S
237 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further contributions as part 7 has been started. Any posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeepin
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