srbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20027 times:
Frontier and Western Pacific. WestPac made a bid to buy Frontier right after moving their hub from COS to DEN. But once Frontier got a good look at their books, they walked away, but later in the year, F9 made another bid for the airline while it was in bankruptcy, but WestPac ended up folding.
Airport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 19986 times:
I recall Aloha and Hawaiian announced a merger earlier in the 2000s, and had even created a new livery/identity for the combined carrier, but I can't recall why the merger was called off. Anyone with more info?
747buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19584 times:
Frank Lorenzo actually came to an agreement to buy TWA in the summer of 1985. According to the book "Rapid Descent", Lorenzo actually began assigning a few of his top CO lieutenants to positions and offices at TW's HQ, since it was practically a done deal. But TW's unions got wind of it and brought in Uncle Carl instead, and the rest is history. In fact TW management actually considered Lorenzo the lesser of two evils, since he actually had knowledge of how the airline business worked.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8722 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19580 times:
I've got my fingers crossed, hoping against hope, that we will be able to add LAN / TAM to this thread. Sadly I don't think that will be the case. I think that at one point a number of years ago AM/MX was supposed to happen but I can't recall any details of it. KL/AZ sort of merged and then came apart again a number of years ago, but I suspect that AF/KL will at some stage incorporate AZ.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
"But the CAB agreed to approve (a Northwest/Northeast) merger in December 1970 only if the Miami-Los Angeles route was not included. For Northwest, it was all or nothing and its $50 million big was withdrawn the following year."
HA_DC9 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19076 times:
Quoting Airport (Reply 2): I recall Aloha and Hawaiian announced a merger earlier in the 2000s, and had even created a new livery/identity for the combined carrier, but I can't recall why the merger was called off. Anyone with more info?
You are correct. The merger was announced on 12/18/2001 and called off on 3/16/2002 when HA pulled out. There was a lot of consumer, shareholder and employee oposition to the deal. I do recall that the new carrier would keep the AQ name, but keep the HA fleet. IMHO and personally, I thought dumping the HA name would be stupid as HA had the better name recognition of the two and at that time HA was in the middle of a "rebirth" that would make the company what it is today. Fast foward a couple years with 1 HA bankruptcy filing and 2 AQ bankruptcy filings and eventual shutdown and here we are today.
I think a major contributing factor to the merger failure was a nasty collective bargaining clause in some of the AQ labor contracts that were ratified years before the merger was announced whereby it was put in these AQ labor contracts that if the 2 airlines merged and layoffs would occur, those layoffs would apply to the HA staff first. This clause was put in the contracts on the notion that AQ would acquire HA which at the time during the 1980's and 1990's was the weaker of the two airlines. HA embarked on a "rebirth" of sorts starting around 1999/2000 which literally reinvented itself and eventually became stronger than AQ, but the AQ labor clause remained in place. Here's a link to that story:
deltamartin From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1061 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18870 times:
Quoting edina (Reply 16): BCal & SAS was also on ther verge of happening before BA muscled in.
I recall reading somewhere that during the time Jan Carlzon was CEO at SK he tried to merge the company with a number of other European airlines. That was one of the reasons why he had to leave his post if I'm not mistaken.
isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18808 times:
Quoting deltacto (Reply 15): "But the CAB agreed to approve (a Northwest/Northeast) merger in December 1970 only if the Miami-Los Angeles route was not included. For Northwest, it was all or nothing and its $50 million big was withdrawn the following year."
Right...I was with NW when the merger was announced, approved and then NW walked away from it because the MIA-LAX route "was awarded to NorthEast on a temporary basis and was not part of the merger"...so said the FAA.
Another merger that Uncle Sam shot down quite early was American and Eastern in 1962 or early 63. The talks were started but the government told AA and EA boards of directors, don't bother....it ain't gonna happed.
I have the newspaper clipping somewheres in my collection.
BN and CO were in talks that went no where in 63.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18449 times:
Eastern and American would have been a good mix. Once again the government and politics played a big part. Sadly, if our government today controled the banks and oil companies we probably wouldn't be in this mess. The taxpapers give oils companies big tax breaks, yet they make RECORD profits. And the crap goes on.......I don't get it.
: I don't know if you'd call it a merger but WN made an attempt at F9 before RP got them. I think it was a breakdown in pilot negotiations that caused i
: That was just the last attempt for a merger. There were at least 3 previous attempts at a AQ-HA merger going all the way back to the 1960's. Each tim
: In the early 1990s, there was a three way asset swap proposed, where NW would sell AA their ORD-NRT route, and their ordered (but not yet delivered)
: He was also one of the driving figures behind the proposed Alcazar airline alliance (which a terrible name, really) in the early 90's, between SAS, S
: I picked up a copy of this for $2.00 at last year's Airliners International convention. The route map is really neat - it's in the same style as EA's
: The CAB was always historicaly opposed to mergers of carriers which were in basically sound financial health, regardless of competitive status. The ex
: For a while, a holding company called CINTRA owned both MX and AM after they had both run into financial trouble. The federal government through the
: Didn't DL try to swallow CO in the mid 90's? cheers : DALelite
: IIRC, that was never announced. It was a merger talk that faded.
: Actually it was announced in May of 2000. http://money.cnn.com/2000/05/24/deals/united/ you are probably thinking of the talks in 2010 that broke off
: Hi Folks , didn't America West try to merge with TWA in 2000! A massive Codesharing Agreement was already announced (I would like to see the combined
: I certainly was. I had no idea about the proposed merger in 2000. Thanks.[Edited 2011-08-07 18:14:26]
: AirTran also kicked the tires in regards to TWA and after they saw what kind of shape TWA was financially, they ran for the hills. I remember when th
: Both DL and NW apparently attempted hostile takeovers of CO in the 90's. NW owned a substantial number of shares of CO stock at one point. The DOJ ma
: Frank Lorenzo, "The Airline Builder." Lorenzo couldn't build a windshield wiper for a dog's ass. Just asked the former employees of all the airlines w
: What about Northwest/Midway right before Midway closed up shop?
: I don't know if this would qualify, but during the final months of PeoplExpress, United was interested in purchasing/merging with the original Frontie
: Jack - yes I remember this, too. IIRC, United agreed to acquire Frontier around August 1986. A major condition was that all Frontier pilots would be
: Related to the announced United/US Airways merger: Atlantic Coast Airlines and PSA/Piedmont/Allegheny Related to the United bankruptcy: Mesa and Atlan
: Quoting the late R.E.G. Davies book on Delta: "The first suitor for Northeast in its re-Storered structure, was Northwest Airlines, which first propo
: Same thing with the Air Canada / Wardair merger that was proposed ... but was never actioned. AC eventually got them anyway!
: Well, WN tried to buy F9 a couple years ago. I remember the flame wars in here all too well. WN was trying to swoop in as the white knight to "rescue"
: Remember that there was more to the deal that simply UA and US merging. Because the combined presence in Washington, D.C. would have been huge, many
: If we're including attempted takeovers, there was FL trying to take over YX a few years ago. Okay, someone explain this one to me. Why would UA pilots
: Lorenzo was no prize, but had Texas Air not bought Continental, it would have been gone in months, not years; and the first bankruptcy, and resultant
: Actually, what really ended the deal was when the HA management got a look at the AQ books. Since AQ was a privately held company, the deal to merge
: I guess the attempted US hostile takeover of DL counts, right..? Not really a merger but it was certainly quite public and lit a fire under DL's ass.
: An airframe-livery combination that never should have happened. Those BN A320's were u-u-u-U-gly. -Dave
: SAS in its days of glory tried to purchase British Caledonian to get a foothold in the british market. After that when it fell through SAS started to
: If only the BA/KL merger had happened. Now that would have made a really super airline. BA would certainly be better shape and could still have become
: Air Europe also got a long way down the road before they aborted AE733
: Midway Airlines (ML) and Northwest Airlines (NWA) in November 1991. The "deal" fell through at the 11th hour and ML was shut down the next day. The Mi
: I think it was like 1998, and several times before and afterwards. Same thing with NW and CO with the golden share thingy. That was back when CO was
: not sure why that should make the (ex)EA folk feel better....they pretty much took it in the....well yea...while CO was getting alot of EA's good ass
: It was just one year after a bitter (1985) pilots strike at United, and there was some lingering resentment. (This resentment was also a factor in Ri
: Although it happened 8 years later, wasn't the attempted 1992 merger between AC and CP quite different the 2000 one? We would have seen A310s, 737s an
: why do airlines announce mergers and never go through sometimes? Isn't it like the company that cried merger?
: DCA, no question about it. I remember when UA/CO got federal approval last year, a friend said to me "how could UA and CO get approval but UA and US
: If I remember, the combined US/UA was going to give up nearly all of the US slots and gates at DCA to DC Air, and AA was going to get some of them as
: Air Florida tried buying out Western Airlines, but Delta (and Air Florida's own demise) got in the way.
: Also I forget that US still had a small hub at BWI back then. So that would have meant that UA/US would have had a hub at IAD, BWI, PHL, and DC Air a
: While AC did attempt a merger with CP in the early 1990s, it was learned later on that they actually had no intention to at the time. In the early 19
: Yes. Moroever, IIRC AA was going to receive US' MD-80 fleet in the deal as the Mad Dogs were still in sizeable numbers at US (31 frames, I think) but
: Sorry if I missed it while skimming the thread, but has anyone mentioned Olympic/Aegean? Confidently announced by both carriers and then blocked by th
: Is this the same Hollis Harris from Delta?
: Back in the 80's Northwest announced it was buying Midway, but when NW sent auditors to check Midways books, NW did a hasty retreat.
: Regarding the UA/US merger, here are two route maps I have saved to my computer from an old, old online article regarding planned new routes. Internat
: Yup, and later of World Airways. More than likely the small hub at BWI would have been history, in particular, US Airways' MetroJet operation, which
: Thanks for sharing! TPA/RDU-SFO should still be started, IMHO. It's hard to read but it seems like many of these routes were eventually added by eith
: You mean the "3-raniff," or the dreaded "Reebok" scheme? Oh wait, either way - you're right! Both accurate observations. Like I said, Frank was not y
: PITSNA, PITSFO and PITSEA were already operated by US Airways at the time, they were just touting additional nonstop service. Correct, by mid-2001 it
: Makes me think of ConWest (movie airline) might have sounded better that way
: I found this on a google search and some of it is a pretty good read. Apparently, there was a lot more going on than was known about: http://fal-1.tr
: Hey....pretty nice. Thanks for that. I have not seen that one. safe
: One side benefit of an NW / NA merger would have been that it would have helped National be more successful on ATL-SFO. NA was awarded ATL-SFO in 1969
: Well, there was the MIA-LGW award to Air Florida, but I digress.
: How long did NA operate the ATL-SFO route? I think it was with the DC-8. I am surprised that NA never served ATL except for this route.
: That route made at least some sense. Air Florida had a decent presence in Miami, and could feed the route from several other cities in Florida, Centr
: Once deregulation was in place surely EA would not have needed to claim someone else's dormant authority, they could just start the route anytime the
: In the first year of deregulation, airlines could: 1. Add any route that was dormant. A dormant route was a route that another airline had authority
: In the late 1960s there was extensive coverage in the TWA company newspaper 'Skyliner' of an agreement to merge with Pan Am. For several months there