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Talk Of QF Going Daily On SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD  
User currently offlineairstatdfw From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14835 times:

Two different papers have reported QF is talking about going Daily on the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD run. As load factors have been in the upper 80%.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-plans-daily-flights-to-dallas

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/08...une-airport-passenger-traffic.html

AirStatDFW

153 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14566 times:

This is a natural move for them. IMO, if it did not go daily, the route would be considered stagnant and not a performer, especially with AA offering their massive connection possibilities.


John@SFO
User currently offlineaussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14522 times:

What are the possibilities for them to start a service ex MEL as well.

Could their ER's operate MEL-DFW, I assume the return should / would be DFW-AKL-MEL.

I expect on the 24th August we will hear that the SYD service will go daily, along with what many will be expecting a savage range of cuts to existing services.


User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14522 times:

Quoting airstatdfw (Thread starter):
Two different papers have reported QF is talking about going Daily on the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD run

Not surprising as it was predicted by many on here. Although I'm bit surprised that its by the end of the year (Star story), I think that's a bit quicker than expected, not even a year!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13269 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14513 times:
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First, congrats to QF. I do not doubt these routes are profitable. Both for AA with the feed and QF with the long haul profit.

Quoting airstatdfw (Thread starter):
As load factors have been in the upper 80%.

I suspect high loads on the available seats after 'blocking out' due to QF pushing the 744. Kudos to them.

IMHO, I suspect these are the perfect routes for the later (lighter) A388's after the first engine PIP.    I wonder if QF would consider a custom seating configuration for these ULH routes?

While on one hand I'm sad to see my home airport (LAX) bypassed, it is natural that a significant fraction of the US O&D to Australia would be better served from DFW than LAX. I suspect QF will utilize the 787 for BNE. Is there any other Australian city that could see service with either the 787 or A380? I discount MEL until 2025 or so... I see a direct DFW-SYD happening well before MEL-DFW.   Just my opinion on the cost vs. demand.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14356 times:

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 2):
Could their ER's operate MEL-DFW, I assume the return should / would be DFW-AKL-MEL.

I expect it would be fairly severely restricted. However, I think MEL-AKL-DFW would be a great route! No need for any triangular routing nonsense. There would be some demand for AKL-DFW as well as the 1 stop into DFW. It would also help the case for an ADL/PER-AKL flights with QF metal which could feed it (and the AKL-LAX flight), although this may not work out as NZ already fly these one.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
First, congrats to QF. I do not doubt these routes are profitable.

It certainly seems that way. Pretty surprising with the load restrictions and inconvenience of the BNE stopover on the return, combined with reputed poor reliability.

I fully expect the SYD-DFW route to non stop both directions on the A380 in the next few years, when the better A380s can be delivered. I presume this has been pushed back from 2012. However, if it's still less than two years away, I fully understand the need to get this flight daily pronto. That should give it a product and connections that no other airline/alliance can match.

When will the A380 be able to fly MEL-DFW (7814nm Great Circle) both directions with a full pax load? Is there an ETA?


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14319 times:

I doubt this route is profitable so early into the new service. They stated in the article that only 20% are flying premium and that they expect to develope the route over time. I believe QF is on record stating that most if not all of their International flying is not making a profit, hence the restructuring announcement.


John@SFO
User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14031 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):

IMHO, I suspect these are the perfect routes for the later (lighter) A388's after the first engine PIP. I wonder if QF would consider a custom seating configuration for these ULH routes?

Well the 8 A380s of the second order have already been announced to be in a different configuration (no F) so I would expect a long haul one to be a distinct possibility. On the other hand no bets until after 24/8!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2992 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 13861 times:

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 2):
What are the possibilities for them to start a service ex MEL as well.

Not likely, no.

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 2):
Could their ER's operate MEL-DFW, I assume the return should / would be DFW-AKL-MEL.

No. It struggles with SYD-DFW, let alone MEL-DFW.

The priority will likely be to make it daily SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD, moving to a SYD-DFW-SYD as soon as they can, with the arrival of the B787 the likely chance to make that happen.

I dont see individual BNE-DFW or MEL-DFW flights for quite a while to come. As for demand, I see potentially greater potential for MEL than BNE for a non-stop DFW flight, but it will all depend on the right aircraft for the former.

[Edited 2011-08-09 00:57:49]

[Edited 2011-08-09 00:58:29]

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13605 times:

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 2):
What are the possibilities for them to start a service ex MEL as well.

Could their ER's operate MEL-DFW, I assume the return should / would be DFW-AKL-MEL.

I expect on the 24th August we will hear that the SYD service will go daily, along with what many will be expecting a savage range of cuts to existing services.

Great possibility but not with the current fleet of B744ER's... QF struggle with the DFW-BNE-SYD sector...

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 8):
No. It struggles with SYD-DFW, let alone MEL-DFW.

And not to mention the amount of diversions executed over the past few months...
DFW-NOU-SYD, DFW-LAX-SYD, DFW-AKL-BNE-SYD..

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinezululima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 332 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13374 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
They stated in the article that only 20% are flying premium and that they expect to develope the route over time

No, they said 20% of all passengers were corporate travelers. This doesn't equal 20% premium.



I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
User currently offlineQF15 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13215 times:

To be fair haven't the LAX and AKL diversions all been medical related??

I think Brisbane will see a DFW nonstop flight both ways before Melbourne as it has a superior geographical location in regards to North American flights. But to kill two birds with one stone they could do the following.
Routing that would have potential out of Melbourne is MEL-BNE-DFW-BNE-MEL. Its only slightly longer than going via AKL, Brisbane already has established a connection to Dallas, ETOPS across the Pacific would be less of an issue than going thru Auckland would it not?? (if it was to be operated by the 787) and QF/JQ has a shedload more connecting destinations on offer in Brissy.

Preferably this flight will be an A380 so enabling yours truly to fly the whale domestically  


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13046 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
DFW-LAX-SYD

Not that it matters, but it was actually DFW-LAX-AKL-BNE-SYD... Seems a lot worse listing it out!!

Quoting QF15 (Reply 11):
To be fair haven't the LAX and AKL diversions all been medical related??

They diverted to LAX for a sick pax, then crew hours were going to run out so they had to divert to AKL...

Quoting QF15 (Reply 11):
I think Brisbane will see a DFW nonstop flight both ways before Melbourne as it has a superior geographical location in regards to North American flights. But to kill two birds with one stone they could do the following.

   I think that a daily 787 from SYD and BNE would work well - the SYD flight would be mainly SYD traffic while traffic connecting from the rest of Australia would quickest to go through BNE. MEL is a very remote possibility at this stage IMO - it's just too far to go nonstop, and if you're going to have a stop you might as well do it in Australia so the flight can garner some extra feed as well. Love the idea of a MEL-BNE-DFW but I think it's reallllly unlikely to happen - they only do that sort of think for positioning (ie when QF15 used to be SYD-BNE-LAX) and even if there are no other 787 routes out of BNE, they can just rotate in DFW and send pax on a connecting domestic flight from MEL.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13018 times:

Quoting zululima (Reply 10):
No, they said 20% of all passengers were corporate travelers. This doesn't equal 20% premium.

Ok, I agree with you but I would have put it " Actually it states 20% of all passengers were corporate travelers. This doesn't equal 20% premium."

Instead of saying "No".  



John@SFO
User currently offlineQFFlyer From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12909 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
And not to mention the amount of diversions executed over the past few months...
DFW-NOU-SYD, DFW-LAX-SYD, DFW-AKL-BNE-SYD

Interesting you keep mentioning these diversions, but I can't find any mention of the fact that at the same time of one of these diversions, the LAX-MEL flight on the same day diverted to SYD for fuel. So then all your comments on the equipment used on the DFW-BNE route should be just as applicable to LAX-MEL.....


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12709 times:

Quoting QFFlyer (Reply 14):
Interesting you keep mentioning these diversions, but I can't find any mention of the fact that at the same time of one of these diversions, the LAX-MEL flight on the same day diverted to SYD for fuel. So then all your comments on the equipment used on the DFW-BNE route should be just as applicable to LAX-MEL.....

Wait what?? In July, there were two QF8 diversions.

On the 15th it diverted via NOU. QF94 went direct to MEL that day using A380 VH-OQJ.
On the 16th it diverted via AKL (this diversion was intended and announced before they went to LAX). QF94 went direct to MEL using 744ER VH-OEG.

In April, there was single diversion.

On the 28th it diverted via NOU. QF94 went direct to MEL that day using 744ER HV-OEH.

I think that's the only three diversions that there have been, and none of them correlate with what you're saying in the slightest!!


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12396 times:
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This is one route the 787 was made for. Could see the day when 3 or 4 Qantas 787 fly to DFW from all 3 east coast Australian cities. An A380 with 80 J class seats may be too many for this route. Emirates and QF are the airline streching the limits of the A380 with 14 hour flights, currently there are no 16 hour flights.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12206 times:

The talk from day 1 was that QF ultimately wanted to go daily. I think that was the expectation among all parties (QF, AA, DFW Airport, etc.) - I think most viewed it as just a matter of time.

Glad to see that QF is, at least thus far, satisfied with the performance, and hopeful that QF's optimism about gradually being able to attract more high-yielding corporate customers ends up panning out.

As others have already said, and has been well-discussed, the 747 is certainly a sub-optimal solution for this mission. I agree that the 787 would be absolutely perfect here. I think the fundamentals of the route/market itself are absolutely excellent - it's just a question of eventually getting to the right aircraft type.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11960 times:

If this comes to pass, I think this should silence the naysayers.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
I doubt this route is profitable so early into the new service.

Thats probably true, however, the fact that they are trying to make the flight daily says that it is preforming better than they expected it to off the bat. I heard that QF planned for two years of losses on this route. If they are trying to go daily this soon, I highly doubt it will take much longer to break even and then become profitable.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemikey86 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11914 times:

Interesting. Good idea to make it daily. Otherwisre the route would fail to be a sucess in the long run. Getting nervous about the 24AUG11 announcement from QF!


mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11805 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
The talk from day 1 was that QF ultimately wanted to go daily. I think that was the expectation among all parties (QF, AA, DFW Airport, etc.) - I think most viewed it as just a matter of time.

And aircraft thinking about it. Will QF have the physical capacity to take this flight up to daily considering they have to use one of the 6 -ER aircraft, which are very shortly going to be starting refurbishments so will be rotating out of the fleet over the next couple of years. When is MEL-LAX due to go all A380? That will free up some capacity - but where will the rest come from? Is this a sign that they're canning EZE to free up a three weekly -ER??


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11779 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
I doubt this route is profitable so early into the new service.

  

Quoting thegeek (Reply 5):
Pretty surprising with the load restrictions and inconvenience of the BNE stopover on the return, combined with reputed poor reliability.

I'm certainly skeptical, plus it's a 747 and fuel is stll pretty expensive

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
This is one route the 787 was made for.

   I have no doubt that DFWSYD nonstop on a 787 would be a great route. This suboptimal temprorary fix seems like it'd be a tough route, although if it builds up a solid market for if/when the 787 arrives, it will serve its purpose.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11679 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
This suboptimal temprorary fix seems like it'd be a tough route, although if it builds up a solid market for if/when the 787 arrives, it will serve its purpose.

I think this has a lot to do with it.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11260 times:

Man, I hope it goes daily soon with the 744ER. It's such a beauty.

Now if UA offered the flight, I'd jump all over it for the miles  



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11110 times:

here's a quote from the article :

"Qantas had already been booking flights with a small number of seats blocked out for 'no sale', in order to manage the weight of the plane, to ensure it could make the journey with enough fuel to spare for emergencies."

so on top of the already high CASM of 744ER and ULH, now they worsen it by reducing the denominator.... then RASM is going nowhere due to only 20% corporate travel.

i wonder how much fuel has to be before this route goes entirely unprofitable..... $120/barrel ?

not that full JV would solve the issues at hand

maybe 3 ways to fix it :
1. use 789 to lower absolute cost
2. use A380 to lower per seat cost and eliminate the BNE stop
3. transfer it to AA 777-300ER


25 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : Each of those suggestions could only take place years into the future. IIRC, AA has perhaps 6 total 77W on order atm. You'd need to dedicate a minimu
26 tommytoyz : That is true for any route on any airline, However, crude oil is now $82. This will benefit most airlines.
27 mogandoCI : A near instant solution would be to lease 77L/345s and outsource the maintenance (wasn't Arik wasting the 345 on a short segment to London??) would y
28 LAXdude1023 : I think even those of us who have been championing this route agree that the 744 isnt the ideal fit for it. But if QF are going to up the frequency, t
29 blueflyer : I'm thinking despite the relative lack of "corporate travelers" they must be doing well upfront nevertheless, for two reasons: a) Our CTM says no spe
30 tullamarine : For the 100th time, the 77W is no more capable of doing DFW-SYD than the 744ER. Only the 77L and A345 currently have the range for this route.
31 Post contains links thegeek : Do you mean a damp or wet lease re: 77L? Who would want to lease said aircraft from their fleet right now? And it would be very expensive. I suppose
32 sunrisevalley : I believe it is payload limited LAX-MEL in so far as the seating is limited to ~550 , which is an ESAD of ~7100nm. DFW-SYD is about 7700nm ESAD so I
33 eaglefarm4 : I posted this the other day on the Brisbane expansion post The BTRE stats for MAY are out and had a look at DFW-BNE-SYD stats. On 8 flights only from
34 qf002 : Also remembering that the BNE includes all those pax connecting to MEL, PER, AKL, ADL etc.
35 thegeek : How are these statistics affected by BNE-SYD pax on QF8? (Thanks for posting them BTW.)
36 koruman : So they are carrying an average of 239 passengers on a 747-400ER at the limits of its range and they want to increase frequency? The phrase "bunch of
37 SonomaFlyer : What we don't know from that info are the yields and cargo revenue. We know they aren't taking a whole bunch of cargo but they are certainly carrying
38 qf002 : Though I agree it would be stupid and in no way suggesting they would - are those AI 77L's still out there or did something happen to them??
39 IndianicWorld : The priority for QF will always likely be getting to a position for SYD-DFW-SYD to be operated, without the less than ideal current routing, and then
40 Post contains images thegeek : I haven't heard that but it makes sense for it to be. AA are getting a worthy benefit in the sense of additional traffic through its main hub on a co
41 thegeek : Unless I'm mistaken, one more A380 should be enough to have one daily flight to each of SYD/MEL-LAX/LHR, and QF have two more A380s coming this year,
42 Post contains images IndianicWorld : ^^ Theres still some questionmarks though around whether the existing A380's can perform the mission. Will be interesting to see if they attempt it. I
43 thegeek : At a minimum it would be less restricted on the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD route which could be worthwhile even ignoring prestige and marketing benefits of gett
44 Post contains images qf002 : Also remember that the first 12 A380s are coming with F in them, and QF have stated that only 20% of the traffic using these flights is corporate - m
45 IndianicWorld : As qf002 has stated, I wasn't only talking about range constraints, which still need to be considered, but it is also the premium heavy configuration
46 eaglefarm4 : I believe the 2 new A380's due this year may not now have F class added ,can anyone confirm this.Also my contacts at QF at BNE have been aware of inte
47 thegeek : I'd really question if this is a reason to prefer the 744ER vs A380. A380: 14F 72J 32W 332Y 744ER: 14J 66J 40W 187Y Seems like it is the 744ER which
48 PITrules : Also a SYD-DFW diversion to IAH What Asian and LHR routes does AA have that cannot be flown with their current 777s? It is, as the extra 100-150 nm r
49 Post contains links qf002 : Was a weather diversion, no different to airlines diverting to MEL/BNE when SYD has heavy fog. Would have happened regardless of aircraft type, so it
50 LAXdude1023 : I have absolutely no doubt they would be carrying more if the plane allowed it. Remember that they have to block off anywhere from 30-50 seats. That
51 Post contains images EK413 : Certainly made it sound worse hehe... From memory neither one have been medical... Thanks for your defence... Agreed totally... The B787 is the perfe
52 LAXdude1023 : The LAX one was. They had to divert again to AKL because the crew went over hours because of the medical diversion.
53 Post contains images mogandoCI : it's a cost control thing, not the absolute range the 747SP flew the same range as the A343, but surely you won't argue which one is superior ? it's
54 airbazar : Buying 77L's to operate a single route plus the costs assiciated with maintaining a tiny fleet of 777's which have nothing in common with any other a
55 cbrboy : I think you might mean May. QF8 DFW-BNE-SYD began operating on 16 May 2011. The first diversion to NOU occurred on 23 May, and the second on 15 July.
56 cbrboy : Not everyone wants to go to Sydney. QF has good connections from BNE to other Australian ports and that way you can travel from DFW with one stop, wh
57 mogandoCI : not if it's bleeding QF left and right. connectivity for the sake of prestige was one of the key reasons that led to PanAm's downfall.
58 LAXdude1023 : What makes you think its bleeding left and right? If QF makes DFW daily, I would bet money it isnt. I agree with the notion that it probably isnt pro
59 mogandoCI : you previously said QF blocks "30-50" seats (your words), so the "up to 90% load factor" is more like 75-80% of the entire plane. Add in connection h
60 LAXdude1023 : But thats just it, no one truly knows what kind of money this route makes or doesnt make. We can just sit here and guess which is what you and I are
61 airbazar : That's not a fair comparison. SYD and DFW have a significant amount of connecting traffic at both ends, and probably some O&D. There's probably m
62 mogandoCI : QF pulled the plane off SFO to make this happen, a flight they've been running for decades. some argue DFW is AA's hub, not SFO. In that case, QF sho
63 SonomaFlyer : SFO definitely wasn't stupid before. The fact the route operated for years and to this day is operated by other airlines proves its profitability. QF
64 mogandoCI : IIRC isnt A388 range around 15000 km versus around 13500 for 744? A388 on this route is probably low CASM but even lower LF.
65 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : Per Airbus: http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...380family/a380-800/specifications/ 15,400km is the design range. Per Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.
66 N471WN : Does anyone know if any other carrier is going to enter the SFO-SYD market? United needs (and deserves) some competition on this run.....
67 sunrisevalley : This passenger load is only 23t and the -400ER is good for about 33t DFW-BNE . Certainly the aircraft would have the belly space to load the extra 10
68 PITrules : Yes, it was a weather diversion... because they didn't have enough fuel to hold and let the thunderstorm pass. You don't know if it would have divert
69 tayser : and MEL 14,472km. 1000km to play with +/- a few passengers for weight restrictions to get more juice out of the engines and the 380 would be able to
70 SonomaFlyer : Good point. I'll be honest, I have nary a clue as to the merits of business O&D of Victoria versus Queensland. I do know that MEL is likely "a br
71 thegeek : Thank you for having the patience to point this out. I for one lacked it. I'd doubt that adding PER-LHR and SYD-JFK would make it work out either. Di
72 qf002 : Probably - sorry it was late!! Thanks for correcting me. Whatever aircraft was on the route, they're only going to carry enough fuel to get them to D
73 thegeek : QF looked at SYD-JFK/LHR with the 77L & A345 in 2007 IIRC, but said that they didn't think it would be profitable with the current equipment on of
74 PITrules : Not at all, as any dispatcher will tell you they will add additional contingency fuel, above and beyond what is required, for any possible ATC delays
75 kiwiandrew : 77W or 77L ? A number of posters have suggested that the route is beyond the capability of the W. (Don't forget that you need to factor in CASA's vie
76 thegeek : I would say a little better. A380 v1 is still a superior proposition vs 77W on paper.
77 PITrules : SYD-DFW-SYD is really not beyond the capability of a 77W, using 180 ETOPS. And if CASA were to adopt 207 ETOPS, this route with this airplane would b
78 PITrules : Agreed, while ETOPS 180 restrictions are in place. I believe there is enough demand for daily A-380 service on SYD-DFW. But I still believe the 77W o
79 thegeek : FWIW, A388 still air range is up to 15 400km, 789 is up to 15 700km. Obviously, the latter has a strong chance of changing. So while the 789 may fly s
80 truemanQLD : With more A380's on the way and a load of 787's, why would QF invest in 777's now? In regards to AA, they already have 777's so arent creating a sub
81 PITrules : But how are these issues wrt QF bringing on a 777 fleet any different than when they brought in the A-320s? or A-330s? For whatever reason those airc
82 qf002 : Not enough to go into a 90 minute holding pattern at the end of a 16 hour flight if there's diversion airports all over the place. Small problem - QF
83 gemuser : You answered your own question in the paragraph above: As QF have A380 in service and on order, but has no B777 in service or on order, what's the po
84 PITrules : That's fine if the 787's were to go direct to QF instead of JetStar; and if there is no need for an airplane between the size of the 787 and A-380. H
85 thegeek : I suspect the A320s were bought instead of 737s for IR reasons, but these planes are about even and neither JQ or QF have a split fleet. So I'm not s
86 gemuser : You answered your own question in the paragraph above: As QF have A380 in service and on order, but has no B777 in service or on order, what's the po
87 QF15 : This thread has turned into another "Qantas and their non existent 777 fleet" thats been mentioned a million times before.... Regarding flight time fr
88 koruman : The 77L would be more efficient and profitable than existing alternatives on each of the following routes: SYD-DFW-SYD SYD-EZE-SYD SYD-JNB-SYD MEL-LA
89 qf002 : A sub fleet that is an extension of dozens of aircraft that already exist in their fleet. Very different to getting some when you've never operated a
90 gemuser : SYD-DFW-SYD Too small and the post 2012 A380s will be along before any B77L could be delivered. SYD-EZE-SYD Not going to happen due to ETOPS AND belo
91 thegeek : Have you not heard of ETOPS or EDTO? I'd also doubt LAX-MEL for the 77L. 77W would be better than the 744 though.
92 The Coachman : Where do we start... Only SYD-DFW vv would be 77L workable. MEL-DFW would take a hit and also there are ETOPS restrictions. JNB and EZE are EDTO rest
93 koruman : No, surely it proved that a 777-300ER capacity is too big for the market. But a 777-200LR should not be.
94 thegeek : I'm not really sure why DL aren't doing this. Perhaps it will be part of the VA/DL tie up to include this flight.
95 Post contains links airbazar : Officially, no. However, the answer to what it would take to have scheduled A380 service at DFW varies depending on who you ask. There's a good expla
96 Post contains links and images tayser : 40nm diversion off the GC route. http://tinyurl.com/3hmpbvx
98 thegeek : VA's failure did not prove that the 77W is too large. QF fly the 747 SYD-JNB, and SA fly the A346 PER-JNB, at least some of the time, so I cannot see
99 EK413 : Surely it's perfect equipment for SFO...? EK413
100 mogandoCI : if the 787 is sitting idle at AKL then sure, else I don't see UA wanting to step on NZ's toes. NZ is more than sufficient to connect the entire Ocean
101 qf002 : I think that was half the problem, but the ETOPS diversions played a significant role.
102 koruman : Oh yes it did. SA manage a 346 on JNB-PER for the same reason that Qantas manage a 744 on SYD-JNB. They are dominant national carriers at both ends o
103 koruman : With all due respect, I find your comments baffling. According to Qantas, DFW is the North American One World superhub, where passengers from east of
104 SonomaFlyer : Wow. I assumed DFW was ready for A380 services now. It looks like some taxiway improvements are needed along with the bridges themselves if not realig
105 LAXdude1023 : If QF tells DFW they need to be A380 ready by a certain time, they will be no matter what it takes.
106 sunrisevalley : Would need 3-AFT's to get a 40t payload westbound. A flight plan that SX1899 prepared put the ESAD at about 8700nm with a timetable sector time of ab
107 kiwiandrew : Yes, most people have heard of EDTO.......except CASA who are still living in the 20th century... and that is the stumbling block, until the regulato
108 sunrisevalley : I am puzzled . Australia and New Zealand set up a joint study group , there was industry input in both Countries. The final outcome was as I understa
109 tayser : see talk about about ETOPS/ETDO above - MEL-JNB took a 2-3 hour diversion over PER towards MRU, rather than the great circle route which QF flies (ri
110 The Coachman : It's just that bit too far. If was feasible, you'd bet your bottom dollar DL would have done it and as I said previously, probably wiped the floor wi
111 thegeek : +1 The only qualification to this is that while NZ has quite a good cabin product in Y (in my experience), a lot of their planes do not have J, so th
112 gemuser : Not on the VH register! 10 years minimum, unless QF force it to Cabinet level and get a favorable response. CASA will NEVER agree, on its own authori
113 thegeek : One question - looking at QF's route map it seems that the only destinations opened up by DFW are the Mexican ones. So how many of the pax on these fl
114 sunrisevalley : Geek... Watch for a message.
115 IndianicWorld : +1 Theres no proof at all that there is no market for MEL-JNB. Theres more proof that VA had the wrong plane for the mission than anything else. If s
116 gemuser : I don't really get what you mean but, the real opening up of destinations is the number that can be reached NON-STOP from DFW that can not be reached
117 qf002 : Not really - like The Coachman raised, operational costs have been ignored in your argument. And your proposal isn't really solving any issues - you'
118 SonomaFlyer : QF's challenges between Australia and North America are completely different from their challenges to Europe. EK is the main reason (along with SIN, B
119 thegeek : What I mean is that only to a few of those destinations in Mexico is there a code share QFnnnn flight number. At least according to their route map.
120 Post contains images qf002 : Fair enough, but the demand just wouldn't be there IMO. Happy to be proven wrong through
121 dfwdfw : DFW needs 5 times a week with an a380. That would make a good passenger count.
122 thegeek : Well, it seems that UA/CO disagree. They have suggested that they were looking at/planning to do IAH-AKL with a 787 which would need about a 300km di
123 kiwiandrew : Apologies for contributing to thread drift but... I was under the impression that the FAA will, shortly after entry into service, approve EDTO/ ETOPS
124 koruman : But this is already causing unnecessary damage to Qantas. I am a regular on the lunchtime widebody NZ136 BNE-AKL, which I use to connect one-stop to
125 thegeek : Someone posted the link to the NZ rules in another thread, and from my reading it seems that an airline can get EDTO so long as it has been flying ED
126 qf002 : To quite sure how your reply relates to what I said? I'm talking about a MEL (or anywhere really) tag from AKL on the IAH-AKL service, as was being d
127 thegeek : Oh Ok. I thought you were knocking IAH-AKL.
128 The Coachman : While your points are applicable in relation to SFO and YVR, they are not applicable in relation to SEA, PDX, DEN, SLC, ORD, BOS, DFW etc etc. As to
129 sunrisevalley : From Aerobnz's explanation UA would need to have a year's operating experience with the 788 before it was eligible for 330min under N.Z. rules. Just
130 dfwdfw : Can't QF just start the A380 to DFW already.
131 sunrisevalley : They probably don't have a spare one and the traffic is not there yet to give a load factor as good as they are getting on other A380 routes.
132 Post contains images qf002 : Wouldn't dare to!! Or rather, can Airbus and Boeing just deliver their planes on time already
133 thegeek : I have to ask, why wasn't DFW done a decade or two ago, from AKL? 744 easily has the range so long as you are willing to overfly Mexico. Could be slig
134 thegeek : I know that there are some areas where Australian rule makers just go their own way because because because, but why are you so sure that this will n
135 Airvan00 : They don't see it as resisting progress, more like keeping the barbarians from the gates. You only have to look at the current CASA - Tiger problem.
136 gemuser : Brilliant and succinctly put!!! Sums up the situation exactly. While I have not worked with the current generation of CASA safety personal I worked w
137 thegeek : Hmm, so come 2017, let's assume that QF upgauge SYD-JNB to A380. Won't there be articles in the paper questioning why there quite new A380s suddenly h
138 Airvan00 : When I joined ATC (1974) it was DCA. Sir Donald Anderson had left as DG by then, but he had suggested years earlier that I should join ATC. DCA becam
139 gemuser : QF will eventually negotiate an approval for QUADs to get 240 and 330 EDTO. Unless they've kept it very quite QF do not seem to be in a hurry for ETD
140 thegeek : Which comes down to commercial interest IMO. Perhaps when the LAN SCL-AKL-SYD service wants to go twin (forecast 2016) they will have to drop the AKL
141 eaglefarm4 : Daily slots for BNE,SYD have been applied for.
142 kiwiandrew : I am sure that you knew what you meant when you posted that ... but for the benefit of those of us who aren't mind readers - who has applied for dail
143 thegeek : He would mean slots at DFW. Didn't know that a slot controlled airport. Is it 7 weekly slots or 14?
144 ZK-NBT : Its not slots, I believe QF have told BNE and SYD their plans to increase DFW to daily possibly for the NW11/12 period OCT 11 MAR 12. It doesn't mean
145 eaglefarm4 : Currently QF 008 operates into BNE and SYD 4 times a week.Daily slots in and out have now been requested up from 4 a week into BNE and SYD to daily.
146 Post contains links Airvan00 : Sydney is. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...on/airport/planning/apr_slots.aspx
147 eaglefarm4 : ZK-NBT it is actually slots and they are filed through Airport Coordination Australia.All carriers intending to operate flights into Australian cities
148 Post contains images ZK-NBT : While it is slots and I guess in some way airports need to know who is planning what, I don't believe even SYD is actually slot restricted though alt
149 qf002 : SYD is a slot restricted airport... No getting away from it... It's not yet a heavily restricted airport like LHR for example, but airlines do have t
150 FlyboyOz : Since I posted in the wrong forum, then I put here... If QF fly directly to SYD, then it would be lots of problem with the SYD airport infrastructure.
151 Airvan00 : Don't think it will make much difference. There are about 18 international arrivals between 6am and 7am each morning at Sydney. An extra one is hardl
152 airbazar : A couple of things have been lost in this entire discussion. First, how have the loads been on the flights to LAX? Primarily SYD-LAX? I would expect s
153 thegeek : I would add that I am interested if LAX->BNE (westbound) has been hit by the DFW route.
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